Guess we need some feedback from a US bike with the diasapon flash.spasm said:
ECU reflash - results only in this thread
- Thread starter Tobers
- Start date
I rode my bike Friday last week. What I posted after the first maiden voyage here and in the other "power restrictions lifted" topic is absolutely valid. It is wheelie prone, power is snappy and abundant, throttle response is very direct. S-mode is better not used on cold, wet twisty roads. I now have a purpose for that T-mode that I never used before.spasm said:
March 20th my bike goes on the dyno, I'll let you know the results. Previous dynorun already showed I have 100 hp at the wheel with only the Akra, PC V and K&N filter.
So now with the Arrows header without cat and Diapason flash, there should be some more horses freed up. ::26:: ::001:: ::001:: ::26::
::008:: ::022:: im lookin forward to that big time ::018::Blue_eyes said:
Just hung up with 2Wheel dynoWorks here IN Kirkland, WA just minutes down the street from my work. they can burn my ECU in 15 minutes while I wait. Woohoo!!! He needs 48 hrs to receive the burn once I email him my ECU SN# and Bike VIN#.
This is very tempting!!!! It is the ECUnleashed!!! I forgot, he said he has done about 12 of the Teneres already. I don't know if this is all of ECUunleashed, or his location.
This is very tempting!!!! It is the ECUnleashed!!! I forgot, he said he has done about 12 of the Teneres already. I don't know if this is all of ECUunleashed, or his location.
If the throttle response is direct what is the concern on wet road? I will say that I am very pleased that my throttle response is linear enough that I am perfectly comfortable riding on cold wet roads in S mode. Don't want adrupt uncontrolable throttle response regardless of power output. That is the job of my wrist.Blue_eyes said:
Kevhunts
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- Who did the flash for you: ECUnleashed / Powerhouse Motorcycles - Babylon, New York
- When: March 2012
- How much it cost: $449 plus shipping
- How long it took: 3 day turn around
- Did they physically modify the ECU unit (e.g. holes drilled): NO
- Does the bike start in the same mode it was in when you turned it off: YES
- Mods: Akra slip-on
- And most importantly, the results...
Coming off a 50hp 650cc machine, my initial impression of my S10 was "Wow, this feels like two 650's under the seat".
I rode in T mode until I reached the 1000 mile mark, then used S mode exclusively from then on. I enjoyed S mode much more but still found it lacking when trying to pass slower vehicles, etc. It just seemed like something was missing for a 1200cc bike.
I began reading (most of the ECU flashing threads) and decided to make a move.
ECUnleashed was my choice and the results are similar to what FredZ43 has described.
Despite being told T mode would be uneffected, I found it has been improved almost to the level of the original S mode, but still remains well mannered. The new S mode is exactly how I expected this bike to be from the very beginning. It's not some scary monster to fear but I have no doubt I could wheelie now even with my big arse on the back. I sum it up by saying when you kick this thing in the guts, it will now giddy up! ::008::
- When: March 2012
- How much it cost: $449 plus shipping
- How long it took: 3 day turn around
- Did they physically modify the ECU unit (e.g. holes drilled): NO
- Does the bike start in the same mode it was in when you turned it off: YES
- Mods: Akra slip-on
- And most importantly, the results...
Coming off a 50hp 650cc machine, my initial impression of my S10 was "Wow, this feels like two 650's under the seat".
I rode in T mode until I reached the 1000 mile mark, then used S mode exclusively from then on. I enjoyed S mode much more but still found it lacking when trying to pass slower vehicles, etc. It just seemed like something was missing for a 1200cc bike.
I began reading (most of the ECU flashing threads) and decided to make a move.
ECUnleashed was my choice and the results are similar to what FredZ43 has described.
Despite being told T mode would be uneffected, I found it has been improved almost to the level of the original S mode, but still remains well mannered. The new S mode is exactly how I expected this bike to be from the very beginning. It's not some scary monster to fear but I have no doubt I could wheelie now even with my big arse on the back. I sum it up by saying when you kick this thing in the guts, it will now giddy up! ::008::
Desert Dave
New Member
I received my ECU back from ECUunleashed this evening and here's a few first impressions after a quick 60 mile test ride. I'm sure I'll have more to say after I take her out for a better run this weekend.
Simply put my bike now has the response I would have expected from this bike from get go. Even at start up with the bike in neutral, just snapping the throttle the motor feels directly connected to my wrist, which is something hard to quantify with any numbers, but it's what I expect from, well pretty much any bike I own. Forget power for a minute, this responsiveness is part of the joy of riding, no matter how many ponies the bike does or does not have . Now my Tenere has that feeling to.
This is starting to sound like a broken record, but my impressions are the the same as most of the unleashed customers here. Not a raging beast, but more roll on everywhere, immediate response. Seems I can ride lazy and enjoy the pull from low rpm even more and the motor now seems to have a top end rush that wasn't there before. Nothing shocking, just more and better.
My bike is bone stock, with just the air screw adjustment.
Yeah it passes the wheelie test. Since that seems like a decent butt dyno test I played around with that to. Indeed first gear power wheelies are now childs play without chopping the throttle, but by no means would the front get airborne on accident. Second gear wheelies are doable, where I couldn't before, but I still need to chop and grab and handful, but then she flies right up. I think the guys with removed cats, exhaust etc are seeing the extra umph there over just the flash.
Which brings me back to the speculation of DIFFERENT restrictions by country. Seems we all have similar results in the end, just those of us in the states don't see it as a night and day difference. Going off the demo I rode (which was supposedly a Euro model) and felt like a pig compared to my new CA model, I felt more of a power increase right there then I did with the flash. Now if I was comparing the demo to my flashed bike I would say it was like two different bikes, and if I opened the throttle on my bike now the way I was flogging the demo I would say it was wheelie prone for certain, and I can only imagine how much more with other mods.
Simply put my bike now has the response I would have expected from this bike from get go. Even at start up with the bike in neutral, just snapping the throttle the motor feels directly connected to my wrist, which is something hard to quantify with any numbers, but it's what I expect from, well pretty much any bike I own. Forget power for a minute, this responsiveness is part of the joy of riding, no matter how many ponies the bike does or does not have . Now my Tenere has that feeling to.
This is starting to sound like a broken record, but my impressions are the the same as most of the unleashed customers here. Not a raging beast, but more roll on everywhere, immediate response. Seems I can ride lazy and enjoy the pull from low rpm even more and the motor now seems to have a top end rush that wasn't there before. Nothing shocking, just more and better.
My bike is bone stock, with just the air screw adjustment.
Yeah it passes the wheelie test. Since that seems like a decent butt dyno test I played around with that to. Indeed first gear power wheelies are now childs play without chopping the throttle, but by no means would the front get airborne on accident. Second gear wheelies are doable, where I couldn't before, but I still need to chop and grab and handful, but then she flies right up. I think the guys with removed cats, exhaust etc are seeing the extra umph there over just the flash.
Which brings me back to the speculation of DIFFERENT restrictions by country. Seems we all have similar results in the end, just those of us in the states don't see it as a night and day difference. Going off the demo I rode (which was supposedly a Euro model) and felt like a pig compared to my new CA model, I felt more of a power increase right there then I did with the flash. Now if I was comparing the demo to my flashed bike I would say it was like two different bikes, and if I opened the throttle on my bike now the way I was flogging the demo I would say it was wheelie prone for certain, and I can only imagine how much more with other mods.
For those of you still wondering whether or not the US spec bikes are less restricted than EU spec bikes etc....
The facts have already been posted a long time ago...
US spec bike : 7300 miles, PCV + AT, Arrow header, Akrapovic Slipon, CO at +4:
Source: http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=3229.0
Another US spec bike: Fully stock except Akrapovic can:
Source: http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=3236.0
My EU spec bike 2000 miles, PC V + AT, stock headers, Akrapovic Slip-on, K&N airfilter, CO at 0:
100hp, 79,5 ft lbs
Facts speak for themselves. And now you can go and start the dyno discussion all over again... ::025:: ::025:: ::025:: ::017::
The facts have already been posted a long time ago...
US spec bike : 7300 miles, PCV + AT, Arrow header, Akrapovic Slipon, CO at +4:
Source: http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=3229.0
Another US spec bike: Fully stock except Akrapovic can:
Source: http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=3236.0
My EU spec bike 2000 miles, PC V + AT, stock headers, Akrapovic Slip-on, K&N airfilter, CO at 0:
100hp, 79,5 ft lbs
Facts speak for themselves. And now you can go and start the dyno discussion all over again... ::025:: ::025:: ::025:: ::017::
Desert Dave
New Member
If you are referring to me....Blue_eyes said:
Yes it has been established through those dyno charts that the US bikes are restricted. We already know that. Fact. My bike (and others) have been de restrictected and felt improvements, which backs ups those facts. what isn't proven is the level of restrictions.
Looking at the charts YOU just posted don't you see a huge dip between 4-5 thousand rpms that isn't present in the US spec bikes? If we can believe the AKROPOVIC stock dyno charts theirs show an even bigger dip. You're correct, facts speak for themselves, look at your own charts. Again my butt dyno on the demo bikes felt this huge dip in lower gears (not higher), it's not there on my new bike (in stock form), another fact. Can I conclude definitely those demo bikes were the same as your stock Euro bikes? No, I can't, that is left for debate, but that would sure explain to a T what the difference everyone is feeling, from the bike in stock form to the improvements. Does this seem like an unreasonable line of thinking?
Interesting observation Dave. Last year I to had a test ride on a bike from the Yamaha demo fleet and was very dissapointed with the motor, so much so that I crossed the S10 of my list and bought a Tiger 800XC-ABS. A few weeks ago, while kicking tires at my local Yamaha dealer, I was encouraged to take test ride on the S10. It was a very different experience from last year. While fueling wasn't perfect it was a much more powerful motor then I remember from my earlier demo ride. Now I own both a 800XC and an S10!! Ya know anyone that wants a good deal on a 800XC-ABS.Desert Dave said:
I was told the demo fleet S10's were pre-production models, could that have been a nice way of saying Euro Spec bikes???? We'll never know for sure will we.
The important thing is that each of us can enjoy our S10 for what it is or what we can make of it., ergo..... ::021::
For me reliability is a mojor factor and the S10 seem to have what it takes so I'm a very happy camper. ::012::
Regards, Paul
Regards, Paul
fredz43
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A fact is that the first fleet of bikes over here at the end of 2010, including those that were used for the Press Intro in Arizona were Euro models. Those were later circulated around to dealers for display. Our shop had one for a week in January, 2011. I spent a day cleaning lots of that AZ dust out of every nook and cranny of that bike. The bike had an immobilizer key. Those were also used in some of the early demo fleets until the first USA spec bikes arrived. You may recall some pics posted on this site when a couple of USA spec bikes finally showed up in demo fleets. In one report, we saw the VIN, confirming that it was USA spec.
OK, let me explain what these charts tell us:
If you would study the graphs you would notice that the higest values of the US bikes are not even as high as the lowest values of the EU bike.
The lowest value of the EU bike is higher than the highest value of the US bikes.
Now these bikes all have different mods so they can't be compared as apples to apples, but what it shows is that the US bikes power is just as restricted as the EU ones (in the charts the power of the US bikes is even lower).
The EU bike has a PC V and O2 Optimizer for the closed loop range, which will provide better fueling, especially in the rpm/throttle range where the restrictions does not apply, so the peak values will be a bit higher in the less restricted range, which makes the dip more pronounced.
What these graphs tell us is that the power of the US bikes is as low as or even lower than the EU bikes.
So they are just as restricted as the EU bikes, certainly not less restricted.
If you would study the graphs you would notice that the higest values of the US bikes are not even as high as the lowest values of the EU bike.
The lowest value of the EU bike is higher than the highest value of the US bikes.
Now these bikes all have different mods so they can't be compared as apples to apples, but what it shows is that the US bikes power is just as restricted as the EU ones (in the charts the power of the US bikes is even lower).
The EU bike has a PC V and O2 Optimizer for the closed loop range, which will provide better fueling, especially in the rpm/throttle range where the restrictions does not apply, so the peak values will be a bit higher in the less restricted range, which makes the dip more pronounced.
What these graphs tell us is that the power of the US bikes is as low as or even lower than the EU bikes.
So they are just as restricted as the EU bikes, certainly not less restricted.
Update after playing around with bike last night. The bike runs much better in the lower RPM range. I am able to take off from a stop in third gear without too much clutch slipping or protesting from engine. Also able to run 6th gear at 2000 rpm and go to WOT again with very little bucking. No way I could do that before flash. So the flash has helped with low RPM response alot.
I think that build date of bike could be useful info also. Mine was Sept of 2011. Serial #1008. Reason I say this is because I have ridden 6 different Super T's. 5 are bikes made in last 6 to 8 months. One is US serial #0023. That bike belongs to my cousin. Motor wise it does not feel anything close to the other five bikes. Has a noticeable lack of power and response compared to the other 5. I was thinking last night that if a reflash would take that bike to the level that mine is now at I would be shouting in my helmet as most of the guys overseas are doing after reflash. I will put my ECU in his bike to test this theroy, but it will be a month or so until that happens. Anyway maybe Yamaha has changed the factory flash at some point in last year. I have had a new factory flash done on my 2011 F150 that was built last July because of updates. Not something they advertise, but is done to correct complaints sometimes. . Car companies do it all the time. Could explain the wow factor difference we are hearing.
I think that build date of bike could be useful info also. Mine was Sept of 2011. Serial #1008. Reason I say this is because I have ridden 6 different Super T's. 5 are bikes made in last 6 to 8 months. One is US serial #0023. That bike belongs to my cousin. Motor wise it does not feel anything close to the other five bikes. Has a noticeable lack of power and response compared to the other 5. I was thinking last night that if a reflash would take that bike to the level that mine is now at I would be shouting in my helmet as most of the guys overseas are doing after reflash. I will put my ECU in his bike to test this theroy, but it will be a month or so until that happens. Anyway maybe Yamaha has changed the factory flash at some point in last year. I have had a new factory flash done on my 2011 F150 that was built last July because of updates. Not something they advertise, but is done to correct complaints sometimes. . Car companies do it all the time. Could explain the wow factor difference we are hearing.
I have been straying away from these discussions since they aren't SUPPOSED to be occurring in this thread...but I'll bite now that the thread is 7 pages ruined anyways.Z06 said:
My bike is 0051. I have come from a 146hp Vtwin superbike, with dyno results of ~130rwhp. I have 1k miles on this bike. In S mode, my bike is smooth and responds. I have accidentally carried the front wheel up my driveway accelerating hard in 2nd.
Those dyno charts don't show enough information to tell the whole story.
Sure, the US spec bike appears to make less HP in the lower gears...BUT...what should be noted is that it does make more HP in 2nd than 1st and 3rd to 4th the jump is miniscule. I have to assume the 2nd plot is a 1st vs 4th comparison. That makes the change look HUGE (and it is at 15hp), but in reality I doubt it would make that much difference in a drag race as 1st gear lasts all of ~3 seconds. Improvments in power of 1st gear are virtually useless. They will merely result in excessive wheelies, wheel spinning, or TSC gettting a workout.
1st gear WOT on my bike, STOCK, in S is quite impressive for a 575 beast. The front wheel will loft if I don't lean forward. 2nd gear WOT follows right through. A whack on the throttle in 2nd at the right RPM has the front so light it will shimmy. Now, I did break my bike in by MY terms, and not Yamaha's. Maybe that accounts for some of it...
I do plan to try the ECU Unleashed flash. I am currently talking with a local tuning center about bringing my bike down, doing some before runs, tuning, and then following up with after runs. Right now FUNDING is holding me back. The tune is fine: $449 is a SET price by ECU Unleashed. It is the dyno charts that get pricey. To properly document this requires a minimum of 4 runs before and after, 8 total. Now accepting donations
ac
Got my wheel back today so I could try my reflashed ECU.
AF1 in Texas did the reflash.
About $460 W/shipping
Stock bike.
First ride I was underwhelmed. Sport mode TC off. As others have mentioned off idle hiccup is gone.
I'm at about 4500 feet. No roll on wheelies. in fact I was having a harder time to even do a clutch wheelie. :question:
I wished I had not read others comments so I wouldn't be biased one way or the other.
The low speed roll on is much smoother. Where you almost have it in a gear too high and it would do a kinda chudder as
it pulled. That is almost gone.
I came home for a moment and went out again. The more I rode the better I like the changes. It's just improved
in many areas. Feels like a perfectly jetted bike. The pull from 5,000 to redline is smoother and seems almost rev happy.
Before it was like why bother. It actually pulls harder reving it now.
Just very clean smooth power delivery. I kept switching from T mode to S mode and it wasn't that drastic of a change.
T mode has nice power where before I never used it.
Seat of the pants it is an improvement. Not a firebreathing incredible beast more of a very nice smooth power delivery
that is stronger than stock and removed the little throttle glitches that you thought weren't bad enough to just live with.
Would I do it again? YES. I do need to go on a longer ride. The initial impressions confirm how nice of a power delivery this bike
can have and did make the upper gear passing roll ons stronger.
AF1 in Texas did the reflash.
About $460 W/shipping
Stock bike.
First ride I was underwhelmed. Sport mode TC off. As others have mentioned off idle hiccup is gone.
I'm at about 4500 feet. No roll on wheelies. in fact I was having a harder time to even do a clutch wheelie. :question:
I wished I had not read others comments so I wouldn't be biased one way or the other.
The low speed roll on is much smoother. Where you almost have it in a gear too high and it would do a kinda chudder as
it pulled. That is almost gone.
I came home for a moment and went out again. The more I rode the better I like the changes. It's just improved
in many areas. Feels like a perfectly jetted bike. The pull from 5,000 to redline is smoother and seems almost rev happy.
Before it was like why bother. It actually pulls harder reving it now.
Just very clean smooth power delivery. I kept switching from T mode to S mode and it wasn't that drastic of a change.
T mode has nice power where before I never used it.
Seat of the pants it is an improvement. Not a firebreathing incredible beast more of a very nice smooth power delivery
that is stronger than stock and removed the little throttle glitches that you thought weren't bad enough to just live with.
Would I do it again? YES. I do need to go on a longer ride. The initial impressions confirm how nice of a power delivery this bike
can have and did make the upper gear passing roll ons stronger.
Seems like "common" message is coming through from majority of reports. Pre-flash we have some gripes with fueling, power delivery characteristics. Post-flash, we have nothing left to complain about, at-all. Rough edges have been reduced / taken away, an overall improvement. The first impressions wooo-hooo factor varies regionally and also possibly depending on other mods made to the bike, but an overall improvement nevertheless.
Some additional data from me:
Fuel consumption post-flash, based on actual re-fill quantities. Mixed driving.
1st tank (25% T-mode, 75% S-mode), 5.2L/100km (46 US mpg)
2nd tank (100% S-mode and bit more lively) 5.3L/100km (45 US mpg)
Some additional data from me:
Fuel consumption post-flash, based on actual re-fill quantities. Mixed driving.
1st tank (25% T-mode, 75% S-mode), 5.2L/100km (46 US mpg)
2nd tank (100% S-mode and bit more lively) 5.3L/100km (45 US mpg)
That is a very good report on MPG, as I'm pretty sure you have been riding it at least as aggressive as I do. I just got a tank yesterday, 46.4 mpg, 25% T mode and rest S mode. This is with the ABS windscreen design. I normally get about 43 tops with the big custom screen I made.
Aggressive? Maybe. These two tanks are from two weeks worth of commuting to work which is a mixture of HWY and city where I by and large hold speed limits. This is interspersed with spirited spurts whenever I get a chance plus a couple of more energetic weekend joyrides. I have OEM touring screen, "winglets" and side cases on all the time. My impression is that I am down little on fuel economy compared to pre-flash, but not by much.Tiger_one said:
ECUnleashed flash by AF1 received and installed yesterday. ECU received and shipped back same day by Ed Cook at AF1!
70 miles so far and immediately noted the immediate response in throttle control as well as improved midrange in 2-4 gears. Never was and still is not a wheelie monster but I am 240 geared up...
The 3000-4000 rumble is mostly gone and noted only when I am feeling for it. Seems less likely to bog when I accidently lug in traffic. I added the BMC airfilter at the same time and have had an Akrapovic exhaust. Its warmer here, so much so that the radiator fan now turns on, so I cannot be certain but there might be a slightly warmer engine since the flash. Possibly a bit leaner with the BMC but I included that info to AF1 for the ECU flash. I have never touched my airscrew or throttle bodies.
I rode back and forth switching with another unmodified S10 powertrain (thanks Motogonia) and we agreed on the more responsive throttle immediately. I found the improved midrange power from 2-4 gears as well. If not for switching back and forth between S10's I would not have noted the extra power notably.
I am happy with the flash and the service by AF1 and would do it again but would pay a mechanic to do it if for only that one freaking bolt holding the ECU cover down from behind! If you are expecting more top end or substantial acceleration, look elsewhere.
Perhaps after a few more miles there will be more to tell.
70 miles so far and immediately noted the immediate response in throttle control as well as improved midrange in 2-4 gears. Never was and still is not a wheelie monster but I am 240 geared up...
The 3000-4000 rumble is mostly gone and noted only when I am feeling for it. Seems less likely to bog when I accidently lug in traffic. I added the BMC airfilter at the same time and have had an Akrapovic exhaust. Its warmer here, so much so that the radiator fan now turns on, so I cannot be certain but there might be a slightly warmer engine since the flash. Possibly a bit leaner with the BMC but I included that info to AF1 for the ECU flash. I have never touched my airscrew or throttle bodies.
I rode back and forth switching with another unmodified S10 powertrain (thanks Motogonia) and we agreed on the more responsive throttle immediately. I found the improved midrange power from 2-4 gears as well. If not for switching back and forth between S10's I would not have noted the extra power notably.
I am happy with the flash and the service by AF1 and would do it again but would pay a mechanic to do it if for only that one freaking bolt holding the ECU cover down from behind! If you are expecting more top end or substantial acceleration, look elsewhere.
Perhaps after a few more miles there will be more to tell.
Yamaguy55
No difficult problems, just difficult people
Thanks for the detailed info. I have been following this since it started: I am interested in reducing the roughness from 2800 to 4200 RPM. You stated that the "throbbieness" is mostly gone. How do you find the (just) off-idle performance? Mine sometimes spits back and hiccups. Not so much after the sync/exhaust gas settings, but occasionally.X5 said: