Clutch too grabby in morning or after sitting for a day

[Checkswrecks]

I've been busy the last few days so am just catching up on this thread. As magic was first to mention, it really does sound like the stack of plates are sticking together until they are warm. The lever just moves the pressure plate against a spring, so the feel you describe makes perfect sense. It also makes sense from the idea that pulling the lever 30 times is not doing anything. All you are doing is releasing the external pressure on the stack of discs in the clutch assembly.

Once the pulled spring keeps the plates from being pressed together, the power being applied by the crankshaft and drag of the transmission normally make the plates come apart as the crank spins one set. If the oil is too thick or the wrong type, the plates can definitely stick together and it only takes one or two to put power to the rear wheel. There was one batch of one year's FJRs which sat for a long time and were notorious for this. The fix was quite simple, in disassembly, cleaning the plates, and re-assembling them with no new parts needed. You need to also remember that the clutch is a roughly 10-15 pound solid mass and the core is not going to warm very quickly if the plates remain pressed together.

As Spring arrives with warmer temps, your situation may slowly improve, but my guess is that the tech used straight oil or 10-50 and it won't. If it doesn't improve with Spring then I'd suggest changing oil to the thinnest for the temps in your area according to the chart in your owners manual. If that doesn't work after a day or two, then have the dealer disassemble the clutch, clean each plate in kerosene, and re-assemble it. With the plates out, you'll also want them to make sure there is not binding in the only other possible place, which is the rod from the slave cylinder to the pressure plate.

As always, let us know how it goes.


[fwiw - Yes, I know the difference between plates and friction discs, but wrote the above to be a little simpler.]

 

[RicoChet]

This post isn't a problem solver, but maybe some assistance in eliminating a cause......

I do not believe the actual oil in a container labeled "Yamalube" is the culprit.
I do however admit I have no reason to doubt the problem occurred after you had your bike serviced, which likely included an oil change.

I also am a little skeptical that an oils properties that could result in your symptoms would suddenly disappear a few yards down the driveway.
Or put another way, there are oils that would not be appropriate for your wet clutch motorcycle. They will cause clutch plate slippage. And while a large temperature swing might increase\decrease the amount of slippage, again, just a few seconds or a very short distance of travel shouldn't alter those properties perceptibly.

This is something else, in my opinion. Looking forward to the discovery almost as much as you.

I gotta admit I'd feel much better if your bike was left with the tech that I have access to. He'd find the issue. I'm dead certain. I've never under-appreciated him being the caretaker of my Yamahas.

This is why I started the thread, I couldn't tell if I am going crazy or not that the clutch action was different when the bike started up versus after being ridden for a few minutes. I have absolutely no experience in these things. All I know is that when I turn on my bike and want to ride away I expect my brakes and clutch to feel the same way they did the day, week, year before (As long as they are maintained) The last few times since I got the bike serviced, each time I pull away from my house I go "What the HELL is going on with this clutch?" and it would go away... but in the back of my mind I know this isn't normal. I'll be speaking with the tech or whoever is there and see what they are able to do for me. The thing I am mostly annoyed with is that I never had an issue with the clutch before, I just wanted an oil change. My issue originally was with my front brakes feeling lumpy.... which they told me they had fixed, and it clearly has not. It's a huge waste of my time and money going in and out of dealerships, which is why I wish I knew a tech better who actually wants to do good work.. not just quick work.

 

[Checkswrecks]

This is why I started the thread, I couldn't tell if I am going crazy or not that the clutch action was different when the bike started up versus after being ridden for a few minutes. I have absolutely no experience in these things. All I know is that when I turn on my bike and want to ride away I expect my brakes and clutch to feel the same way they did the day, week, year before (As long as they are maintained) The last few times since I got the bike serviced, each time I pull away from my house I go "What the HELL is going on with this clutch?" and it would go away... but in the back of my mind I know this isn't normal. I'll be speaking with the tech or whoever is there and see what they are able to do for me. The thing I am mostly annoyed with is that I never had an issue with the clutch before, I just wanted an oil change. My issue originally was with my front brakes feeling lumpy.... which they told me they had fixed, and it clearly has not. It's a huge waste of my time and money going in and out of dealerships, which is why I wish I knew a tech better who actually wants to do good work.. not just quick work.

You're certainly not crazy and it would be terribly frustrating. But this starting after the oil change was a huge clue, like I wrote in my last post.

 

[RicoChet]

I've been busy the last few days so am just catching up on this thread. As magic was first to mention, it really does sound like the stack of plates are sticking together until they are warm. The lever just moves the pressure plate against a spring, so the feel you describe makes perfect sense. It also makes sense from the idea that pulling the lever 30 times is not doing anything. All you are doing is releasing the external pressure on the stack of discs in the clutch assembly.

Once the pulled spring keeps the plates from being pressed together, the power being applied by the crankshaft and drag of the transmission normally make the plates come apart as the crank spins one set. If the oil is too thick or the wrong type, the plates can definitely stick together and it only takes one or two to put power to the rear wheel. There was one batch of one year's FJRs which sat for a long time and were notorious for this. The fix was quite simple, in disassembly, cleaning the plates, and re-assembling them with no new parts needed. You need to also remember that the clutch is a roughly 10-15 pound solid mass and the core is not going to warm very quickly if the plates remain pressed together.

As Spring arrives with warmer temps, your situation may slowly improve, but my guess is that the tech used straight oil or 10-50 and it won't. If it doesn't improve with Spring then I'd suggest changing oil to the thinnest for the temps in your area according to the chart in your owners manual. If that doesn't work after a day or two, then have the dealer disassemble the clutch, clean each plate in kerosene, and re-assemble it. With the plates out, you'll also want them to make sure there is not binding in the only other possible place, which is the rod from the slave cylinder to the pressure plate.

As always, let us know how it goes.


[fwiw - Yes, I know the difference between plates and friction discs, but wrote the above to be a little simpler.]

I think you are pretty much 100% dead on, you sound exactly like you understand what I am experiencing... I can only hope that it is as easy as an oil change.. I'll try and provide an update when I Get one. Thank you!

 

[snakebitten]

WreckerChecker is one of those guys.

You know, the ones that can systematically disassemble all the evidence in their head, and then analyze each element. One by one.

I can't. Thus my "logical" assessment of oil, vs his......I don't know what to call it, but it completely shreds my previous declaration. Lol

So maybe there IS a bottle labeled Yamalube that would contain an oil that is entirely inappropriate to pour into your Tenere?
If so, then yea, the easiest thing to try first is a good thorough oil change, as suggested.

 

[gv550]

I had the same issue, clutch engages at the bottom of lever travel upon cold startup, then engages toward the end of travel after it warms up. Even tho my bike is only 6 months old, I found the brake fluid in the clutch master cylinder to be very dirty, so I used a siringe to suck it dry, brake cleaner to clean it, then filled with clean fluid and bled it through until clear fluid came from the slave.
Clutch works perfect now.

 

[holligl]

I had the same issue, clutch engages at the bottom of lever travel upon cold startup, then engages toward the end of travel after it warms up. Even tho my bike is only 6 months old, I found the brake fluid in the clutch master cylinder to be very dirty, so I used a siringe to suck it dry, brake cleaner to clean it, then filled with clean fluid and bled it through until clear fluid came from the slave.
Clutch works perfect now.

When I changed the fluids last fall (2014, ~22K mi), the clutch fluid was definitely the worst. The clutch reservoir is relatively small. The front brakes looked used but not bad, the rear looked like new. It would be the most efficient do them all at once, and the bottle of brake fluid should be used or thrown out once opened. A single bottle is all you need. Just be careful of splashes, as it will quickly ruin paint.

Given that your problems started with the oil change, logic would hold that that is the most likely source of your particular issue. I would swap the oil to be sure, but if the filter was just changed, I would leave it. Just ensure the oil meets the specs. You will pay a premium for the Yamalube name. I used it for my first change, but moved on to a Castrol MC Semi-Synthetic. Silky smooth clutch and shifting.

 

[Checkswrecks]

::012::
Oh boy - We can change this to an oil thread!!!
[just kidding]
:'(


Seriously, nothing wrong with Yamalube, it's up to the tech to pick which viscosity to use, just like any other oil.


And as for Snake's kind words, I was too fast to respond to Ricochet's other brake thread, when I said to clean the calipers and pins. Taking a few extra minutes to absorb it, I'm on board with the others about it being a rotor needing replacement.

 

[snakebitten]

Yea, come to think about it, the sudden flurry of missteps amongst the usually somewhat reliable sources are in ricochet threads.

Ya think he's a plant? Does he really have a Super Tenere? Have we been had?

 

[radbrad511]

Had EXACTLY the same problem after my Dealer changed my oil. They also used "Yamalube". I am convinced it came out of the shop 'hose', bulk oil. Clutch was super inconsistent and 'grabby'. Had to change oil and filter 3 times before it was 'cured'. Get a couple gallons of the cheap yamalube 'Dino' oil and start riding and changing.

For sure, some of you will doubt, not me. I am the same guy that fixed 'rough' running with a new battery!!

Brad

 

[RicoChet]

Hey guys. Well I dropped my bike off and asked what lubricant they previously put in. They said they put in mineral oil 10w40. I asked them to put in full synthetic and bleed the clutch at the same time.

Let's see what happens

 

[RicoChet]

Yea, come to think about it, the sudden flurry of missteps amongst the usually somewhat reliable sources are in ricochet threads.

Ya think he's a plant? Does he really have a Super Tenere? Have we been had?

Lol I do have a Super Tenere! I'm sorry if I haven't posted recently any pictures but here's a couple you may like! In fact the water in the background is still frozen. I'm not kidding when I say I ride in the cold!

 

[snakebitten]

Haha. Glad ya still have a sense of humor.

Geeze, I guess it IS cold where you ride!

Brutal. Perhaps your Tenere does require a different recipe for various fluids and materials.
I imagine your seat is hard, the plastics brittle, and the tires inflexible?

Cheers to you for even getting out there. Lol

 

[gv550]

I hope your 'Oh Shit' decal remains upside down! ::003::

 

[magic]

Yeah, cold weather riding is a whole new ballgame. About 2 weeks ago I went for a ride around Lake Winnebago and the ice was piled up about 20 feet high along the shore. I stopped at a boat landing and the ice was pushed up into the parking area. It would have been a cool picture, my bike in front of those ice piles, but no camera. it's a long winter up here when your hobby/passion is motorcycles. I will take mine out if the roads are clear, the sun is out and the temp is above say 30F. You learn what wind chill is all about in a hurry. Good luck with your bike Ricochet.

 

[RicoChet]

I will ride as long as the roads are clear of salt and coarse gravel from winter. I try to start riding by March but usually the weather is around -2c to 3c and as long as the roads are dry as well I'm down to ride for about an hour to the office. I wear about 3 layers on top and 2 layers on the bottom, a balaclava and grip warmers on hot. It's not too bad with all that together but there is no way I'll wait months until the weather is warmer. Our summers are too short!

I find the wind protection on the Super Ténéré to be quite excellent. My st1300 had better wind protection but I've learned that in the summer there is a thing called too much wind protection. It can be awful. The Super Tenere has the perfect combination of wind protection but still allows some air to get through. I've got the winglets and tall screen installed.

 

[RicoChet]

I hope your 'Oh Shit' decal remains upside down! ::003::

The previous owner put those dumb stickers on. I've removed them since the pictures! Much cleaner.