Clutch too grabby in morning or after sitting for a day

[RicoChet]

Hey guys. Mr again. I hate to bring up another issue but this time I am not sure if this is an actual problem or nature of this beast.

I've noticed that after I took my bike in for service to have my brakes checked out and have an oil change done, when I start up my bike in the morning I always let it warm up for a few minutes while I get ready with my helmet and gloves. I know some people don't do this but I live in a cold climate. I have been riding to work in almost freezing temperatures.

When I get on the bike and shift into first gear and start releasing the clutch lever, the bike engages too quickly. Instead of the clutch engaging toward the end of the lever action it's almost at the beginning. You can easily stall the bike with only a tiny amount of clutch release. .

I know 100 percent that this bike has never done this to me since I bought it in November. I've done a lot of cold weather riding and only noticed this after my bike had been in for service.

Once the bike has been ridden for a couple of minutes the clutch action is perfect and feels exactly how it should. The problem only happens after I start the bike on a morning or after a day of work.

It feels like maybe the clutch plates are not moving freely or stuck together until they are warmed.

Please tell me this is an easy fix if this isn't normal! I have never owned another bike that does this in all my years of cold weather riding.

 

[scott123007]

Your clutch may have a little air in the line. Just for the heck of it, pull your clutch lever in 4 or 5 times while you are warming up the bike and see if it goes away. There is a very slight possibility that your engine oil being cold may add a little extra drag, but I would look at the hydraulic side of things.

 

[snakebitten]

While I do make a habit of pulling the clutch lever in 2 or 3 times before I engage first gear on a cold bike, (to avoid a clunk) I assure you what you describe is not normal.
So I completely believe you when you say it didn't do that before your service.

Hopefully Scott is dead on and you just need to get air out of your line.

 

[RicoChet]

Hi Everyone,

Well today was another freezing day, about 2c leaving for work this morning. I purposefully allowed the bike to warm up for almost 5 minutes -- C-temp read almost 65-70c. I sat on the bike, and pumped the clutch lever so many times.. maybe like 20. Put it into first, and released veryyyy slowly. No good. Bike practically lurches forward and would stall if I dont pull the clutch in fast. WTF. I slowly move forward and ride down my 300 foot dirt road driveway, and when I get to the end I have to kind go over a bump to get onto the road. Now im revving the piss out of the engine because Im expecting the clutch to engage within 1/8th of an inch but now its engaging all the way at the end, which is the normal way it feels when the bike is on the road. This makes it extremely frustrating as the clutch engages in one place and then another depending if the engine is warm or not.

I am 100% Positive this has only happened after I brought my bike in for service and an oil change. ::010:: I believe the deealership said they were using "Yamalube" which they touted was "The best" for this bike. I've been riding this bike since November, even sometimes in February and not once have I ran into this issue before. I refuse to believe that air magically got into my clutch lines between today and my last service. The clutch was never an issue for me in the first place. Now all of a sudden it is.

I'm taking my bike in for service again today, to fix my front brakes (Which were not fixed in the first place) and now to fix this horrible clutch action -- I almost feel like I'm riding a lemon. I Really want this to be resolved! I question the mechanics experience who worked on my bike previously. Might have to try another place if its still not resolved after this. I've owned almost 12 bikes of different ages and types and never experienced anything like this :-[

 

[magic]

I would tend to think it's the oil creating your clutch drag. The problem wasn't there before the service. Ask your dealer exactly what oil they used. There are several types of Yamalube. I live in a cold climate and ride whenever the roads are clear of ice and snow. I have always used Yamalube 10-50 and it's the semi synthetic variety and have never seen the problems that you are. They also sell a full synthetic and some general purpose stuff that's probably just conventional oil. I have used the 10-50 year round since I bought my S10. Air in the hydraulics is another possibility. I would check into the engine oil first.

 

[ace50]

The S10 has possibly the smallest fluid reservoir I've seen on a bike.
Seems to me that temperature would affect it more than others.
If I recall, there have been other complaints of the clutch but with warm temperatures.


If you're wondering where I'm going with this.........................................I'm not, just saying!

 

[scott123007]

Yes, if you pumped your clutch bunch of times and it did not help, the oil being cold and creating extra drag is more likely your problem then.

 

[Dogdaze]

You have clutch drag if: on centerstand, engage 1st gear with the clutch pulled in, blip the throttle, if the wheel spins up, or
on " , engage 1st gear, pull the clutch in, if the wheel still spins, try stopping the wheel with your boot, if you struggle you have clutch drag.

Make sure semi-synthetic oil was/is used, fully synthetic will cause viscous-coupling, whereby the plates 'stick' together. I had the worst problem on my old 2012 S10, in traffic with clutch in it would creep if I blipped the throttle. I replaced it with a 2014 clutch basket, new plates, steels, fluid, the lot, didn't help!
Then solved it! Got a new S10, the simplest fixes are the best!

 

[WJBertrand]

Hi Everyone,

Well today was another freezing day, about 2c leaving for work this morning. I purposefully allowed the bike to warm up for almost 5 minutes -- C-temp read almost 65-70c. I sat on the bike, and pumped the clutch lever so many times.. maybe like 20. Put it into first, and released veryyyy slowly. No good. Bike practically lurches forward and would stall if I dont pull the clutch in fast. WTF. I slowly move forward and ride down my 300 foot dirt road driveway, and when I get to the end I have to kind go over a bump to get onto the road. Now im revving the piss out of the engine because Im expecting the clutch to engage within 1/8th of an inch but now its engaging all the way at the end, which is the normal way it feels when the bike is on the road. This makes it extremely frustrating as the clutch engages in one place and then another depending if the engine is warm or not.

I am 100% Positive this has only happened after I brought my bike in for service and an oil change. ::010:: I believe the deealership said they were using "Yamalube" which they touted was "The best" for this bike. I've been riding this bike since November, even sometimes in February and not once have I ran into this issue before. I refuse to believe that air magically got into my clutch lines between today and my last service. The clutch was never an issue for me in the first place. Now all of a sudden it is.

I'm taking my bike in for service again today, to fix my front brakes (Which were not fixed in the first place) and now to fix this horrible clutch action -- I almost feel like I'm riding a lemon. I Really want this to be resolved! I question the mechanics experience who worked on my bike previously. Might have to try another place if its still not resolved after this. I've owned almost 12 bikes of different ages and types and never experienced anything like this :-[

Don't know if this is your problem but I had some pretty bad binding going on with my clutch lever that made smooth release very difficult it would kind of release in a series of stick-slip steps making it very difficult to finesse the friction point. With everything off, so I could hear, the lever actually creaked when pulled and released. I too was occasionally stalling the bike if I didn't concentrate and use plenty of revs. In my case it was a bit more noticeable when cold but was still there to some degree even after warming up.
I ended up disassembling the lever and pivot mechanism. The bushing and brass puck were completely dry and practically seized. I had to use a small socket to tap the puck out. I cleaned everything thoroughly and then generously lubed everything with general purpose high pressure grease. Don't forget the end of pushrod that goes into the socket in the little brass puck either. After reassembly everything was quiet again and the clutch release action was smooth as new.
I would not discount flushing a bleeding the system either, moisture can accumulate and reach a critical point rather suddenly sometimes. New fluid can often cure a number of maladies that you wouldn't at first think would be the case.

 

[ace50]

I ended up disassembling the lever and pivot mechanism. The bushing and brass puck were completely dry and practically seized. I had to use a small socket to tap the puck out. I cleaned everything thoroughly and then generously lubed everything with general purpose high pressure grease. Don't forget the end of pushrod that goes into the socket in the little brass puck either. After reassembly everything was quiet again and the clutch release action was smooth as new.
I would not discount flushing a bleeding the system either, moisture can accumulate and reach a critical point rather suddenly sometimes. New fluid can often cure a number of maladies that you wouldn't at first think would be the case.

I'd have to agree with this point.

I bought a 96 Honda Magna last year that had apparently sat in the weather a lot.
The front brake was applied in increments! Increments!
Cleaned and re-greased the lever and pivot and changed fluid and was almost new again!

Heck, I re-grease all my pivot points cause I like it SMMMOOOOTH ::013::

 

[AVGeek]

Since you said it was after an oil change, I would be suspicious of the weight and type of oil they used. Do you know what was in the bike motor before the change?

 

[RicoChet]

Don't know if this is your problem but I had some pretty bad binding going on with my clutch lever that made smooth release very difficult it would kind of release in a series of stick-slip steps making it very difficult to finesse the friction point. With everything off, so I could hear, the lever actually creaked when pulled and released. I too was occasionally stalling the bike if I didn't concentrate and use plenty of revs. In my case it was a bit more noticeable when cold but was still there to some degree even after warming up.
I ended up disassembling the lever and pivot mechanism. The bushing and brass puck were completely dry and practically seized. I had to use a small socket to tap the puck out. I cleaned everything thoroughly and then generously lubed everything with general purpose high pressure grease. Don't forget the end of pushrod that goes into the socket in the little brass puck either. After reassembly everything was quiet again and the clutch release action was smooth as new.
I would not discount flushing a bleeding the system either, moisture can accumulate and reach a critical point rather suddenly sometimes. New fluid can often cure a number of maladies that you wouldn't at first think would be the case.

I'm afraid this doesn't sound like my problem at all, not even close.. the lever action is very smooth and exactly as I expect a hydro clutch to be. My problem is that somehow the engagement point of the clutch goes from being "Just slightly released" to "Full release" within a few minutes of riding. When you start up the bike in the morning and try take off in 1st gear, it is almost impossible to feather the clutch since just the action of releasing the lever sends the bike flying forward almost stalling. About 1 minute after riding, it will feel perfectly normal like the day I picked it up.

I am so frustrated by this as I am not mechanically inclined and I have always relied on an experienced tech to help with these things... But I Feel when you try an explain these things to someone they just.. kinda think you don't know what your talking about. Kind of like when I tried explaining to them my brakes feel like crap. I told them to do ANYTHING they had to do to to fix the problem. They ended up just "cleaning the calipers" and sent me on my way home. Nothing was fixed at all. Now I'm worried I'll be going back and explaining to them this clutch problem and they'll do "Something" and send me back home and I'll pick it up a week later and nothing was fixed. I don't *#&@*&'ing care if they whole front end has to be replaced, I just want shit working the way it was meant to.

 

[RicoChet]

Since you said it was after an oil change, I would be suspicious of the weight and type of oil they used. Do you know what was in the bike motor before the change?

I'm afraid not, I bought the bike as a used bike from a dealership and I had no documentation what the previous oil was. I would of assumed that a Yamaha Dealership would use the recommended oil for this bike but It's hard for me to imagine they would put in the wrong type -- what kind of business are you running. I have trust issues now.

 

[AVGeek]

I'm afraid not, I bought the bike as a used bike from a dealership and I had no documentation what the previous oil was. I would of assumed that a Yamaha Dealership would use the recommended oil for this bike but It's hard for me to imagine they would put in the wrong type -- what kind of business are you running. I have trust issues now.

Your service order should have the type and quantity of oil used in the change. Given your temperature needs, you should be using either 10W-40 or 10W-50, and the manual doesn't specify whether it should be standard, semi-synthetic, or synthetic. While Yamaha recommends its house brand, its packaged by an oil manufacturer (someone here may know which one), so any motorcycle specific oil that meets the standards is perfectly acceptable. Given that the clutch behavior changed after the oil change (and we have a wet clutch, which is lubricated with the engine oil), and that warming up the engine alleviates the issue, number one suspect is that they used an oil viscosity that isn't compatible with the temperatures you ride in.

 

[RicoChet]

Your service order should have the type and quantity of oil used in the change. Given your temperature needs, you should be using either 10W-40 or 10W-50, and the manual doesn't specify whether it should be standard, semi-synthetic, or synthetic. While Yamaha recommends its house brand, its packaged by an oil manufacturer (someone here may know which one), so any motorcycle specific oil that meets the standards is perfectly acceptable. Given that the clutch behavior changed after the oil change (and we have a wet clutch, which is lubricated with the engine oil), and that warming up the engine alleviates the issue, number one suspect is that they used an oil viscosity that isn't compatible with the temperatures you ride in.

I'm hoping your right. Most people (Sane people) are not riding at the temperatures I am riding at every day, I suspect maybe they thought they were doing me a favor putting in an oil with a thicker viscosity... who knows. I think even the shifting is a little tighter or clunkier now as well but hard to say. I'll get it over to the Dealership today and insist they do the work properly this time.

 

[WJBertrand]

I'm afraid this doesn't sound like my problem at all, not even close..

Well, sorry, just trying to help... For the record I've been using mostly Castrol 4T Power 1 10w-50 full synthetic with no issues at all.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008MISF54/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=175170865838&hvpos=1t2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6768186507175091086&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9019685&hvtargid=kwd-37217504382&ref=pd_sl_7760j03ppg_b

 

[RicoChet]

Well, sorry, just trying to help... For the record I've been using mostly Castrol 4T Power 1 10w-50 full synthetic with no issues at all.

Please! don't be sorry! I am just trying to say that your suggestion was not related to my problem...The problem is 100% not related to my clutch lever at all, it operates extremely smoothly, I am hoping that an oil change and clutch flush will solve the problem, before I start digging deeper into other possibilities. Again, I am not mechanically inclined or familiar so I am at the mercy of a dealership to help my situation. I do appreciate your help!!

 

[snakebitten]

This post isn't a problem solver, but maybe some assistance in eliminating a cause......

I do not believe the actual oil in a container labeled "Yamalube" is the culprit.
I do however admit I have no reason to doubt the problem occurred after you had your bike serviced, which likely included an oil change.

I also am a little skeptical that an oils properties that could result in your symptoms would suddenly disappear a few yards down the driveway.
Or put another way, there are oils that would not be appropriate for your wet clutch motorcycle. They will cause clutch plate slippage. And while a large temperature swing might increase\decrease the amount of slippage, again, just a few seconds or a very short distance of travel shouldn't alter those properties perceptibly.

This is something else, in my opinion. Looking forward to the discovery almost as much as you.

I gotta admit I'd feel much better if your bike was left with the tech that I have access to. He'd find the issue. I'm dead certain. I've never under-appreciated him being the caretaker of my Yamahas.

 

[bnschroder]

Before any further guessing, why don't you just change the oil yourself right away? It's so easy, and you know what you poured into it. Takes the guesswork out of it.

 

[ace50]

Before any further guessing, why don't you just change the oil yourself right away? It's so easy, and you know what you poured into it. Takes the guesswork out of it.

I was just going to say the same thing! ::009::