Clutch gone in 10k miles.

[TerraPyrat]

While planning a huge Canadian trip this summer through QC/NL/NS from Maryland, I looked for a mile-crushing, comfortable and BULLETPROOF machine to get me safely there and back. After months of research, it looked like the S10 was the answer and I found a 2013 with 10k miles from a dealer I trust completely and started my learning curve on a new bike. Comfort, mileage, handling, quirks, etc.

Have ridden less than 500 miles on only a few weekends and got stranded with a shot clutch. Apparently the whole clutch pack is done. Lost a month of riding and cost another $1000.
Crushingly disappointed as my trip is now cancelled and I'm not sure I can now travel far from home without a constant anxiety of WTF else is going to go tits up.... which is the exact opposite of what everyone says about the S10 and I have zero interest in riding the same local roads every weekend.
Any comments on whether this is a fluke or if I got the only lemon in the basket of apples? What would make a clutch crap out that fast and what else do I need to worry about?
I REALLY want to love this bike but it's putting up a fight.

 

[Mak10]

It sounds like it was abused by the previous owner. It's easy to get the bike stuck and bury the back wheel.

Yamaha did some improvements on the 2014+, if I was replacing I would try and upgrade.

 

[RCinNC]

You either got a fluke, or else the previous owner abused the crap out of the clutch and you're the recipient of his handiwork.

This bike is as bulletproof as you're likely to find. Mine has just shy of 100,000 miles, and I'm still on the original clutch. Getting six figure mileages on these bikes isn't even all that noteworthy; multiple members on here have done it with no major issues. I will say that the 2014 model (which I have) did benefit from a clutch basket upgrade over the 2013; there had been some complaints about clutch chudder in the pre-2014 models. That wouldn't have anything to do with a clutch being worn out at 10,000 miles though.

Do you have anything to worry about in the future? Who knows. If a clutch pack was actually worn out at 10,000 miles, and it wasn't due to some sort of material defect, I might be wondering if the previous owner beat the hell out of the bike, or if he didn't maintain it with things like brake fluid and clutch fluid changes, coolant changes, regular oil changes, etc. But honestly, if I bought a ten year old bike that I knew nothing of its history, I would treat it like the previous owner neglected all sorts of stuff, and I'd perform things like valve clearance checks, fluid changes, etc. A 10 year old bike with 10 grand on the odometer has probably done a LOT of sitting around, and that's bad for things like master cylinders in brake systems and clutch systems.

 

[magic]

My initial thought was that someone used the wrong oil. Super Tenere's have a wet clutch and require a oil suited for that application.

 

[TerraPyrat]

Thanks for the swift replies!!

The more specific symptom was that I started losing torque/push after about 20-30miles of riding,
The first time it happened, I thought maybe it was something to do with the Sport and Touring modes as I was flipping back and forth to try to see a difference.
Thought maybe the bike got confused. Decided to ride home and didn't have any more issues.

On a subsequent ride, I found the same thing happening but more severely. Pulled over to take a look.
I don't know $h!t about mechanicals so I made sure fluids weren't pouring out of the bike, nothing was on fire and there wasn't a raccoon stuck up under the fender.
Not seeing those, I decided to head for home but then found it just wouldn't go when the clutch was released. Got towed home...$$$
Then, once arrived home, rolled the bike off the ramp truck and gave it a try. Clutch worked. Rode into the garage.
So it seems the problem was only when it got heated up (had the same problem with the ex-wife but we don't have time to unpack that right now).
Got it back to the shop and they said the clutch was definitely shot. I'm hoping for more specifics.

Great advice to see about upgrading when they are replacing the clutch.
Hopefully, I can get to that 6-digit mileage with this as the only misadventure.
Thanks again for the input!

 

[MFP]

IMHO the PO probably was not fluid in the art of using the clutch and shifting gears up-n-down....

 

[Mak10]

I have always heard that using a "energy conserving" oil with friction modifiers (car oil) was not good for the wet clutch. ??? Maybe?

 

[RCinNC]

The oil could be a thing, except that I think the OP would have noticed the sketchy clutch right from the beginning, unless the OP himself was the one that put an energy conserving oil in. I also don't think that the problem would come and go; once the wrong type of oil contaminated the friction plates, it would be there for good.

 

[Fennellg]

Clutch master cylinder and fluid come to mine as well.

 

[WJBertrand]

I’ve seen beginning/unskilled riders fry a clutch, in both cars and bikes, in less than 1000 miles. Like tire and fuel mileage, clutch mileage can be heavily influence by rider technique (or lack thereof!).

I’ve got 90,000 miles on my original clutch bits with no signs of any trouble.


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[RCinNC]

I think it's a fair bet that the clutch fluid is as old as the bike, and may be long past it's expiration date.

I wonder if the clutch slave cylinder isn't working properly, since that could also be affected by crappy clutch fluid. A bad clutch slave can cause the clutch to slip.

 

[MattR]

The fact that it comes and goes indicates that the clutch pack is not the problem at all. Clutches don’t come and go.


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[Sierra1]

But bad springs could. Get hot, soft, and lose pressure on the plates. Contaminated clutch fluid would make it difficult to separate the plates, not transmit power.

 

[TenereGUY]

Or it could have been something stuck in the master cylinder return hole and pressure was building up after each pull of the clutch and then about 30 miles away enough was built up where the clutch didn't engage. Was the clutch lever tight with no slop at all? That's a sure sign of it happening. I rebuilt the clutch Master cylinder on my ST1300A. 10 miles away the clutch was slipping on hard take offs from stop signs. I was headed out on a 1400 mile jaunt. Headed home and I was making progress but curiosity killed this cat as I kept pulling the clutch lever and experimenting. Well, clutch totally disengaged 3 miles from home. Got it home after loading it on a trailer and pulled it apart and flushed out the reservoir and while flushing out the lower section where the piston and rubber seal had been a tiny little sliver of rubber flushed out. I think it was shaved off of the new seal and clogged the return line hole because I put it all together and everything works great to this day. Your lever should always have some slack and if it is tight when fully extended something is not right.
Then when the bike sits for a bit the pressure .ay be able to bleed off.

I also 2nd that all fluids should be changed out so you know they are good and can start your maintenance schedule via time or miles. That includes fork oil too. This bike can last as long as you want to ride it if you take care of it. That dealer didn't discount anything off the repair bill? Shame on them. If it had been me they would take off all labor and I pay for parts or another shop is going to get the job so they don't profit twice as they just sold you the bike!!!

 

[WJBertrand]

The fact that it comes and goes indicates that the clutch pack is not the problem at all. Clutches don’t come and go.


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I thought about old/bad clutch fluid but that will usually result in not being able to disengage the clutch (lever pulled in). OP said this bike wouldn’t move forward with the clutch lever released (clutch engaged). I’ve never heard of bad fluid causing that problem, but who knows?


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[RCinNC]

When you pull in the clutch lever, the master cylinder applies hydraulic pressure to the clutch slave cylinder. That actuates an arm in the cylinder that moves the pressure plate away from the clutch basket, which disengages the clutch. Once you release the clutch lever the actuator arm moves back inside the slave cylinder to its neutral position, and the clutch springs then push the pressure plate back in contact with the clutch plates and reengage the clutch.

What if the actuator arm in the slave cylinder isn't moving completely back into its neutral position after the clutch lever is released? If the actuator is stuck at some point before it returns to its neutral position, then it would not allow the clutch springs to completely reengage the clutch. The gears would still shift because the slave is releasing the pressure plate, but the clutch wouldn't be fully engaged when pressure in the slave was released and the clutch springs push the pressure plate back into the engaged position, because the stuck actuator arm is still putting some pressure on the clutch release bearing. That might account for the slipping of the clutch under load; there's enough friction to mesh the crankshaft to the transmission, but under load it starts slipping because the clutch isn't completely engaged. Something like that might even account for the premature wear on the friction plates, because they might have been constantly slipping a little bit, which would certainly accelerate wear. I don't know if you'd necessarily even feel this in the clutch lever; the master cylinder is working properly, there's no fluid loss or anything, it's just that the travel of the actuator rod is less than it should be.

What made me think of this was the way that brake pistons can sometimes get gunked up and sticky enough that they won't return to their normal position in the caliper after hydraulic pressure is released, and they drag a little bit.

That is my off the wall theory for the day.

 

[WJBertrand]

It’s possible the actuator piston is sticking (I think it’s just a piston acting against a push rod though, not an arm of any kind). Kind of an unusual failure but possible I suppose.

Is there a normal amount of resistance or force felt when the lever is pulled? If it seems too easy that could be a clue the slave cylinder’s piston is sticking.


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[RCinNC]

That was my wonky terminology, WJ. Push rod is a better description than actuator arm.

I'm not 100 percent on the specific arrangement of the slave cylinder on the Super Tenere. I know on some vehicles the push rod pushes against a fork, which is in turn linked to the clutch release bearing. The push rod pushes down on one end of the fork, and the fork yoke on the other end pushes up on the clutch release bearing, which pushes the pressure plate away from the friction plates (while it overcomes the spring pressure exerted by the clutch return springs). I don't have my S10 manual in front of me, so I'm not sure if the arrangement is the same.

 

[Sierra1]

That's what I was saying. Pushing a pedal or squeezing a lever disengages the clutch. If the slave/master cylinder wasn't working, he would have to speed shift. There would not be a lack of power. What he's describing is either improper oil or week springs. I had a bike that had weak springs. It gave symptoms of slipping clutch such as engine reving with no power to the ground.

 

[~TABASCO~]

Wrong oil possibly used. Change the oil and the clutch should work again. If it’s actually “worn out”, the first guy used the wrong oil and didn’t know any better.
It’s a fluke, these clutches last 100K ++ miles.
If you actually need to replace the plates, I suggest OEM stock. For ‘feel’ and longevity.

And run the correct oil…………