BMW v YAMAHA

[houndman]

It seems as if spokes are the only issue cropping up from the Yamaha then all is well, beats the crap out of final drive issues that seem to never be corrected. One thing about Japanese bike builders is they pay close attention to consumer compliants about quality, and then fix that problem. I cant see how the Germans have not corrected the final drive issue after all of the failures, which happened twice on the same bike that a friend owned. He sold that bike ( an 08' r1200gs) after the second failure, then bought a KTM 990. I asked him why a KTM, he repleid he doesn't mind paying for fickle maintenance as scheduled, but not catastrophic failure,(hung out to "dry" in Death Valley, Ca.) I bought the Yamaha becuase I want less cost of ownership. By the way, didn't BMW come out with the first shaft driven motorcycle in 1923? One would think that they would have that down as shaft drives are usually reliable anyway on other bikes.

 

[spasm]

It seems as if spokes are the only issue cropping up from the Yamaha then all is well, beats the crap out of final drive issues that seem to never be corrected. One thing about Japanese bike builders is they pay close attention to consumer compliants about quality, and then fix that problem. I cant see how the Germans have not corrected the final drive issue after all of the failures, which happened twice on the same bike that a friend owned. He sold that bike ( an 08' r1200gs) after the second failure, then bought a KTM 990. I asked him why a KTM, he repleid he doesn't mind paying for fickle maintenance as scheduled, but not catastrophic failure,(hung out to "dry" in Death Valley, Ca.) I bought the Yamaha becuase I want less cost of ownership. By the way, didn't BMW come out with the first shaft driven motorcycle in 1923? One would think that they would have that down as shaft drives are usually reliable anyway on other bikes.

good call yamaha brother ::022:: everyone to there own, i was just pointing out the yamaha is far better than the gs, in looks, handling, and with a few bits done its faster than a xjr1300 by far, well mine is ::008:: and its a yamaha RELIABLE

 

[Maybert]

oh yeah i forgot,your sense of humour in the states, is no where near as good or funny as ours in the uk ::008:: lighten up girls i was just pissing about. ::025::
but the yamaha is better :-\ ) ) ::001:: ::015::

+1 love that British sense of humor ::012:: Way to get 'em riled up Spasm!

I just watched the episode of Top Gear (BBC) with the three wheeled menace for the the umpteenth time and my sides still hurt from laughing

http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/clarkson-tips-over-reliant-robin

 

[GrahamD]

By the way, didn't BMW come out with the first shaft driven motorcycle in 1923?

No. The thing with BMW is they incorporate "advanced" technologies into bikes, and people accept that. Then they go and and sell a lot, and then people think it was all BMW. They tend to stick with it though.

The first Shafty was a Belgian company called FN. Four cylinder, longitudinal four. 1913

Telelever (British Saxon-Motodd) and duo Lever (Hossack/Fior), - British designed.

Oil damped Fork - BMW (believe it or not)

ABS - Originally done by the French for Aircraft, 1958 Royal Enfield experimented with the Dunlop system and although it reduced braking distances decided that most buyers wouldn't go for it. BMW were the first to put it into production and persist with it.

There are many companies that have done advanced things over the years like YAMAHA
Unloved GTS1000. (it cost BMW money so no one bought it) and it wasn't a sports bike or a Cruiser. At the time everyone was into sport bikes and cruisers.

So BMW have the marketing edge and have a price point that allows them to out more expensive bits into their bikes without their user base balking at it.

 

[limey]

If you like British sense of humour you may like this or you may find it offensive. Little Britian USA

http://youtu.be/rsdk-Hmq57M

 

[AL-58]

Having owned a R100GS, a R1200GS and a F800GS. I feel somewhat qualified to comment on this. I would not call them $hit. Actually, I would call them stellar machines. Myself, I'm not a huge fan of the 1200 series. It has crossed a technical threshold, that at the moment I don't want to cross. But the R1150GS is legendary in it's ability to haul large loads great distances. One up, Two Up, pavement, dirt you name it.

I'm no fanboy. I have owned nine BMWs (at Least). Some have been great, some have sucked. I want a Super Tenere really bad. If yamaha had lived up to it's delivery date promise. I would already own one. Again given the circumstances I hold them blameless.

I see no good coming of the continual bashing of other makes no matter who they are. I see it over on ADV constantly with regard to Harleys. Why do we need to prove our superior intellect by deriding everyone else's choice of motorcycle. Ride what you want. And let others ride what they want. We're all motorcyclists for Christ's sake.

BMW got it's legendary status, by building a decent product. But also it came from the riders. On a R100GS you carried extra parts such as a diode board and other critical parts. When they broke we fixed them. Without whining about every little light bulb that flickers and goes out. It seems to be the new american way. Stand there and whine until somebody comes and helps you.

I think the Tenere is a superb effort on Yamaha's part. And I believe it will only get better. But when I see guys riding Teneres, Bashing BMW GS bikes, I compare it to a rookie baseball player telling Cal Ripken how to stay in the game. Time is the ultimate test. Were the better players than Ripken? Sure. How many have the legs.

My entire point in this, is. We as a country of basically decent people, need to get off this "Bashing Train". It's everywhere and it's not healthy. Democrats vs Republicans, Union vs Non Union, North vs South, Black vs White, Bikes vs Cars, Bikes vs Other Bikes. Grizzled Adventure Riders vs Starbucks Posers, Where does it end, and more importantly what purpose does it serve.

When I look for folks opinion on a bike I'm interested in. I don't want to hear the other bike sucks, I want to see and hear pictures and stories of "YOUR" bike, and the trips you've taken with it. And the great things it does. One of the things that always impresses me is seeing a R1150GS speedo picture at 100K or 150K or 200 K.

We all want to be proud of the bikes we own. We all want to believe we made the right choice when we bought them. The way, and the only way, to achieve that, is to ride the wheels off it. And prove to yourself it "IS" the right bike for you. Then tell us how much you love your bike.

Banter, it's what's for dinner. It's also a two way street. Nobody's right, nobody's wrong,

ban·ter   [ban-ter]
noun
1.
an exchange of light, playful, teasing remarks; good-natured raillery.

I've also owned many BMWs including 4 GS's. To me the legendary BMW reliability is an absolute myth, they have cost much more in breakdowns and mechanical repairs than any other bike I've owned. Simple fact. Those that love them, love them and that's good for them but I'm completely over the "prestige" of owning a BMW and the bills that come with it. I'm really glad that Yamaha released the Super Tenere.

Al

 

[Monty]

[quote author=AL-58]
I've also owned many BMWs including 4 GS's. To me the legendary BMW reliability is an absolute myth, they have cost much more in breakdowns and mechanical repairs than any other bike I've owned. Simple fact. Those that love them, love them and that's good for them but I'm completely over the "prestige" of owning a BMW and the bills that come with it. I'm really glad that Yamaha released the Super Tenere.

Al
[/quote]

Hi Al,

That is it with me too. I loved RIDING the GS but I started to lose interest in RUNNING the GS. Best bike I ever rode (until the S10 arrives in a few weeks) but not the best ownership experience. ::26::

 

[colorider]

This is almost as much fun as our "Blue vs Black" debate!

::017::

 

[Monty]

This is almost as much fun as our "Blue vs Black" debate!

::017::

There is no debate. Black is the only option, right? O

 

[justbob]

I grew up riding bikes from the big 4 in Japan. In '05 I put 30,000 miles on an 05 FJR1300 before I got rearended on the interstate which totaled the bike and nearly totaled me. I replaced the FJR with an 05 R1200RT, my first BMW. It was the best motorcycle that I ever owned and the worst. Loved the ride and handling but not the handlebar buzz that increased at speeds above 70 mph.

32,350 oil seal leak, contaminated clutch (repaired in warranty) out of warranty would have cost $1500+
41,200 ESA failed
67,171 lower throttle cable broke (left me stranded on The Cherohala Skyway)
73700 Battery failed
74,050 ESA failed (again)
77,250 Final Drive failed (left me stranded in the Everglades)
I called the closest dealer when the final drive failed, they said they could get me fixed up for $1900. So I called home and had my son ship my spare finaldrive (Yes I had a spare unit sitting at home that I purchased for $250) overnight which cost $137. I rode the bike home and sold it.

I replaced the left headlight bulb 4 times and the right bulb 3 times. I tried different brand quality bulbs with no better luck. The wires and terminals looked like new, no heat buildup noticable.
In 500,000 miles this is the only bike that has left me stranded on the road with mechanical problems.

I figured out that I can't afford the frustration or expense of owning a BMW

No brand bashing, just facts.

 

[rem]

There is no debate. Black is the only option, right? O

That is correct. It needs to be pointed out from time to time for some of our less discerning members. Well done. R ::012:: ::025:: ::014:: ::013:: ::015:: ::003::

 

[tc9988]

There is no debate. Black is the only option, right? O

You are confused, however all is not lost you can join the ever growing flock of enlightened Ravens

 

[Rasher]

u know im getting tired of people and reviews comparing the xt1200z to the gs1200
THERE IS NO COMPARISON, the bmw is shit man, the super tenere looks miles better, rides miles better, handles miles better, and its a YAMAHA

Although I sort of agree with you on the bottom line, I assume you have never owned a GS, and probably never ridden one.

I am no BMW fan, and agree with some of what your saying, I am worried at 15k about reliability - which is proobably why most the Tenere riders who have switched from the GS did so, and not because the GS is actually shite (although looking at the ugly beast or reading the spec sheet implies it should be terrible, the truth is they ain't)

I bought the bike with 8k on the clock and had 3 things fixed under warranty (all went wrong on Euro-Trip in summer) OK nothing major (Fork Seals, Clutch Problem, Warped Discs) but at dealer prices this would have been well over £1,000 if the bike was not under warranty.

I then paid another £300 to extend the warranty again - which ties me in to £300 - £400 a go services and from what I gather the Final Drive is likely to go at any time as few seem to last past 30k, and then they also have fragile (and expensive) electrics. The £300 is an insurance policy on the inevitable £1500 Final Drive Failure which hangs over every 1200GS owner (it is like driving along with the Grim Reaper in tow)

Ignoring reliability, dealer prices (and attitude) and the bike is actually pretty damn good, I chose it after trying a MTS1200, Tiger 1050, VFR1200 and Sprint 1050 (looking to replace ZZR1400 with something more comfy and less likely to get me locked up)

The GS handles pretty good, I have since had two tests on a Tenere and with one of them I rode my GS to the Yamaha Dealer, rode the Yamaha, then took my bike to the local BMW dealer and tested the latest GS and GSA's - all back to back on the same day and both my GS (2008 model on Wilburs Suspension) and the dealers 2011 GS (with ESA) handled better IMO than the stock Yamaha, most tests also praise the GS rate of turn and road handling compared to the Tenere and also note the lack of ground clearance from the Tenere (I decked out the first demo bike within ten minutes - I can't deck my GS with sticky road rubber - even two-up with luggage)

When being caned the bikes perform similarly, I used a junction - lampost test (far more reliable than drag strips you know) and the Tenere and my GS both reached about 80 @flat stick in third over the same distance, I think past a ton the GS is probably a shade quicker, but the Yamaha a load smoother, back to real world the top gear roll ons are probably similar (The latest GS may even be quicker as it definately pulls better than mine)

Getting all practical the GS has all of the control on the bars, the heated grips and not some horrible afterthought (it really does look like Yamaha forgot until after the production run started) - and they don't cost £400 either!

The BMW luggage is also supurb, even the "small" vario setup I have is about 25% larger than the Yamaha setup with easy to use locks, and even seem reliable (probably the only part of the bike I so not expect to fail at any time)

The Yamaha wins on smoothness, although I am used to the GS "character" and it happily cruises at 85mph all day long, it does feel buzzy if you try going much faster for long periods (although for me this was a bonus as I was looking for a bike that would not encourage me to cruise at 3 figures) I think with a Diapson remap it will kick arse in the performance stakes, a shock with a ride height adjuster will solve the lazy steering (even with preload jacked up 2/3rds of the way it steers much slower than the GS which feels like a race bike in comparison) and some aftermarket luggage will solve all my touring problems.

The bottom line for me is if it was not for high servicing costs and poor reliability I would just buy another GS and throw all my farkles on it, but as even the latest ones have had issues and recalls (and still cost a fortune to service) the Yamaha looks like a fantastic bike to replace it and allow me to

::021::