Another catastrophic CCT failure.

[Chefdave]

OP, was this the original from the factory CCT?

I'm the 3rd owner of the bike but as far as I know it's the original. Unfortunately, I didn't realize CCT failure was an issue until it happened to me.

 

[Den]

This is $40 the Graves equivalent is $150. The pricier one looks like it has been machined slightly better but that wouldn't justify a $110 price difference surely? Am I missing something?

This one is available in the UK. It is located in Kings Lynn.

 

[Dogdaze]

This is $40 the Graves equivalent is $150. The pricier one looks like it has been machined slightly better but that wouldn't justify a $110 price difference surely? Am I missing something?

I think the Graves unit has a finer thread adjustment, the pitch maybe slightly different, but $110 price difference worth it? Probably not.

 

[~TABASCO~]

My humble suggestion would be, make sure it has the oil passage return hole machined into it. Otherwise your blocking off oil circuits. Probably NOT that good for the motor. Oil in the correct part of the motor Yamaha engineers wanted oil might be worth $100.
Use the 'search'

 

[EricV]

I'm the 3rd owner of the bike but as far as I know it's the original. Unfortunately, I didn't realize CCT failure was an issue until it happened to me.

Sorry you have experienced this. I had one of the first failures and suffered damage to (1) piston and two bent valves. I was under YES warranty at ~85k miles and it was all covered, but if I recall correctly, it was about $4500 total if it had been billed.

We now know that any Gen I bike, (2010-2013), should have the CCT replaced with either the new updated CCT or a Manual CCT no later than the 52k valve check/adjustment interval to avoid failures. There have been a couple failures right about 50k miles, but it's very rare for a problem to raise it's head prior to 52k.

The issues right now for you are what work or disassembly has already been done? (this could be good or bad, depending on the shop and what they have done) The shop doesn't want to work on it. Find a different shop and get the bike there if you're not comfortable working on it or simply don't have the resources being out of state right now. Have them replace the CCT with your choice of Yamaha part or Manual Graves unit and re-set the timing. See if the bike fires up and have them do a compression test. Even if it runs, you will want to know if both cylinders have equal or near equal compression. This will give you a clue if there is damage or not. Because of all the cranking you did, if the timing is off enough, there will be some damage. You may get lucky though, so don't rule out a win with minimum $$ spent.

More or less worst case scenario is a damaged piston, a couple of damaged valves, and most likely valve guides. Some seals would be prudent, some gaskets are necessary and it would be a Good Idea™ to consider having the other valves lapped in with fresh seals too. I replaced both pistons and rings. You have the option of replacing the pistons with the Gen II pistons. (same size, no cylinder work necessary)

NOTE - Gen I pistons come with rings. There is no ring part number. Order a piston, you get rings with it. Gen II pistons do not come with rings and you have to order pistons and rings separately.

The killer cost is the labor. Do the cheap CCT replacement and timing adjustment first and hope for the best. The compression test will tell you if you are going to need to spend more money or might be able to ride the bike for a while and then do more major repairs when you get home.

Don't rule out the beater car or bike option while your bike is being worked on if you have to do more than the CCT replacement and timing adjustment.

Best of Luck and let the forum know how it goes. Your results may help the next person learn what the odds are.

 

[Nikolajsen]

Hi Nikolajsen, I am picking my 2017 non-ES bike up next week. I did lots of searches but only found out about this CCT failure thanks to you and your interesting poll. I guess it is nothing to be too concerned about but just be aware. I have read that many people have fitted manual tensioner, so I was wondering if this is a Yamaha part or an after-market part?

By the way, I am a huge fan of Denmark and have toured there a few times on my Kawasaki Versys 1000.

::008::

 

[Ramseybella]

Does the Gen 2 have an upgraded tensioner or it's it the same as the Gen 1 bikes?

I bought one before the manual one and it was a POS as well.
Was defective out of the box, I have one of those ones off Ebay no bypass port but never had an issue with it.
It works my bike is hitting 84k.
I would look this over yourself before dumping any money for repairs or a replacement.
You may have gotten lucky and not jack hammered the valves.
Unfortunately you need the bike to work out of state, that ain't gonna happen.
It always happens at the worst moments don't ask me how i know. ::010::

 

[OldRider]

My humble suggestion would be, make sure it has the oil passage return hole machined into it. Otherwise your blocking off oil circuits. Probably NOT that good for the motor. Oil in the correct part of the motor Yamaha engineers wanted oil might be worth $100.
Use the 'search'

It looks to me like the oil hole is there to send oil to the tensioner that you're replacing with one that doesn't require any oil. What am I missing here??

 

[RCinNC]

I have 53,000 on my Gen 2, and I'm debating right now about preemptively replacing the OEM CCT with either another OEM or the Graves unit. I'm not having any issues with the OEM one, but the second valve check seems like it would be a good time for a replacement, whichever way I go. It appears that the Gen 2 unit has been replaced by a new one, though, so I'm hesitant about OEM.

 

[mike25]

I would just remove the valve cover, rotate the engine so the valves on #1 cyl are both closed,
and do a leak down test, repete on # 2 cyl. No money spent, and you will know if you have a
problem or not.

 

[EricV]

I would just remove the valve cover, rotate the engine so the valves on #1 cyl are both closed,
and do a leak down test, repete on # 2 cyl. No money spent, and you will know if you have a
problem or not.

That assumes he has the tools, know how and space to work on the bike. Sounds like he's out of town, so no tools or space. Stuck with dealer. A compression test is easier to do once you re-set the timing and replace the CCT.

 

[dcstrom]

CCT failure???? I thought these bikes were supposed to be bullet-proof?

They are - the CCT is a known weak spot (in the Gen 1 bikes at least). If you have one, replace the CCT at the second valve check (48,000 miles) with the updated part, and you'll avoid any problems.

 

[steve68steve]

That assumes he has the tools, know how and space to work on the bike. Sounds like he's out of town, so no tools or space. Stuck with dealer. A compression test is easier to do once you re-set the timing and replace the CCT.

Just a thought: couldn't you pump low pressure air in while turning the engine over to find the spot between BDC and TDC on the compression stroke? That range has all valves closed. Compressed air would hose out the exhaust pipe or intake everywhere else in the stroke, but when all the valves are closed (assuming they're not damaged), you'd hear the air stop whooshing in... and the pressure would rise, and maybe the rear wheel would move if you used high enough pressure.


Two plugs per cylinder means you could put a gage on one and pump air in the other.


Just thinking out loud.

 

[Chefdave]

Thanks for all of the input. It's greatly appreciated.

Problem is still not solved but hopefully will be soon.

 

[eemsreno]

Just a thought: couldn't you pump low pressure air in while turning the engine over to find the spot between BDC and TDC on the compression stroke? That range has all valves closed. Compressed air would hose out the exhaust pipe or intake everywhere else in the stroke, but when all the valves are closed (assuming they're not damaged), you'd hear the air stop whooshing in... and the pressure would rise, and maybe the rear wheel would move if you used high enough pressure.


Two plugs per cylinder means you could put a gage on one and pump air in the other.


Just thinking out loud.

That's how I do leak down test, Put in the leak down gauge hook it up to the air and start turning the crank over, You will know when and if it has compression! You almost can't turn the crank anymore.
If the engine just keeps turning over and over your in trouble!

 

[dmulk]

Thanks for all of the input. It's greatly appreciated.

Problem is still not solved but hopefully will be soon.

So I wonder what every happened with this?

<D>

 

[steve68steve]

It looks to me like the oil hole is there to send oil to the tensioner that you're replacing with one that doesn't require any oil. What am I missing here??

Zombie thread participation:

After spending for the Graves MCCT based on the oil hole, this very thought occurred to me. The CCT is hydraulic and the oil passage to it is just to allow a pressurized slug of oil to get there and load the CCT piston - I don't recall a leak-by that did any oiling of the chain. If that's so, the Graves' hole isn't really required to keep the bike in stock/ design running fashion.

...but having said that, utilizing the existing oil circuit to spray oil on the timing chain can't be a bad thing, right? Could it be a significant chain and sprocket life extender?

 

[Nikolajsen]

I have never seen a CCT that was designed to lubrucate the chain...
And you are correct...
A manual...well, is manual adjustet and need attension.
The original is automatic adjustet by the oil pressure, and need no attension....if it works

 

[Pdrhound]

So 10 months later, what was the verdict?

 

[Don in Lodi]

Zombie thread participation:

After spending for the Graves MCCT based on the oil hole, this very thought occurred to me. The CCT is hydraulic and the oil passage to it is just to allow a pressurized slug of oil to get there and load the CCT piston - I don't recall a leak-by that did any oiling of the chain. If that's so, the Graves' hole isn't really required to keep the bike in stock/ design running fashion.

...but having said that, utilizing the existing oil circuit to spray oil on the timing chain can't be a bad thing, right? Could it be a significant chain and sprocket life extender?

What I read on the Graves bleed hole was R1 specific, it keeps the oil pressures to the head within tolerance when running 10-20k rpm, no oil flooding. Prolly not so important with the Tenere. The chain guide would most likely be in the way of any oil squirting onto the chain anyway.