Another catastrophic CCT failure.

[Chefdave]

A few weeks ago, I went to start my 2012 S10 (70,000 miles on the clock) after work and got nothing. It would crank but wouldn't turn over. After checking out the forum, I thought that it might be a "hard start' issue. Tried all of the tricks and still nothing so I trailered it to the nearest dealer.

Dealer diagnosis: CCT failure with an unknown amount of mechanical damage to the engine. At this time, the dealer is telling me that it could be up to $9,000 to fix it (which seems to me to be the "we don't want to mess with it" price).

So, I'm looking for options. I'm working out of state for the next month and this is my sole mode of transportation so my options are limited.

Right now, I'm leaning towards finding a used engine and having it swapped out.

Thoughts?

 

[AdvToorer]

"we don't want to mess with it" price

... Indeed!
A used engine (and upgraded CCT) would be something I'd look at. Expecting you can find used engines with much less miles and even if dealer could come close to price of used engine swap, you're still talking about a gearbox with 70k miles on it.

 

[Ramseybella]

Isn't the gearbox part of the motor as a cassette.
After reading about CCT's crashing i installed a manual at around 25k and gave it one twist at 55 or 60k, I'm at 83k and still keeping quiet.
It sucks when things go catastrophic..
Four 10 motors on Ebay right now two 2012's one 2014 and one 2013 with low compression.

 

[Paul466]

I second on Ramsybella’s mod. My 13 started getting noisy at around 40k, went with Graves manual adjuster cause it had an oil passage hole.Its been solid ever since. As far as engine damage ,I would tear it apart and see if it’s catastrophic,might not be, nothing to lose at this point.

 

[Don in Lodi]

You can get a whole used bike for less than 9k.

 

[steve68steve]

My failure was similar: after normal running, bike would not start despite LOTS of cranking. I assumed the worst - bent valves - and immediately pulled the head, and ultimately the whole engine.


What I found was that the timing had jumped a few teeth - enough to prevent starting/ running, but not so much as to cause damage. My diagnostic failure was checking compression BEFORE re-setting timing (of course mis-timed valves won't develop compression).


I believe the chain did its jump at the first crank of attempted start. If it had failed while the engine was running, the engine would have died and I'd have been stranded. If the chain slapped around enough to do major damage to sprockets and guides, it would've died with a lot of noise. The fact that neither of these things happened - and the condition I found it in (only jumped a few teeth) - lead me to this conclusion. My situation may be different than yours, of course.


$9k is ridiculous, IMO. If I were you, I'd install a manual CCT and re-set the timing. THEN check compression. If compression is good, there's probably no engine damage -cross your fingers and start it.
If compression is bad FOLLOWING setting the timing properly, you probably have bent valves. At that point, I'd expect the cost should go up some hundreds of dollars, not thousands. I pulled all my valves, cleaned and lapped them, and re-installed in an hour or so. It's easy work - the hard part is how far down you have to strip things to get the top end of the engine on your bench.... but it's not that much farther than it would already have to be stripped to re-do the timing, so that work is already done.


Uber or a rental car would probably be FAR cheaper than $9k if you just need to ride out a few weeks for repairs.
If you can do the work yourself (or find some help), you will save a bundle. I dropped my engine, new gasket all around, Graves manual CCT, fluids, RTV, a few special tools (valve spring compressor and compression tester) and I was probably under $400 in parts and supplies.


I think it would a long shot to find an engine and do a swap for what a 2012 with $70k miles on it is worth. You could buy another used 2012 with far fewer miles and transfer over all your farkles for a lot less than $9k. If you do find a engine to swap, you could re-build your original and sell it.


Sorry for length.

 

[trav]

Does the Gen 2 have an upgraded tensioner or it's it the same as the Gen 1 bikes?

 

[Don in Lodi]

Different part #, updated. The old part # isn't even available any more.

 

[2daMax]

I read that there is now the 3rd Generation CCT.

$9k is nonsense. Quoting a price without actually diagnosing the issue - excellent mechanic NOT.

 

[~TABASCO~]

I would suggest you or have someone re set the cam timing. They will have the CCT out, install a new CCT or a mcct. And give it a try.
I'm willing to bet you will be off riding. If not you might need to pull the head and take a peek. But from the little from your post and my experience your motor is probaby not trashed.
Basically your same thing happened to a customers bike. He then tried to re set the cams and brought it to me. Just to be on the safe side I pulled the head. Everything was fine, I put everything back correct and it fired right up.
Worth a shot before buying engines and pulling them out of bikes. Lol

 

[Boris]

OP, was this the original from the factory CCT?

2daMax, yes the CCT part number has again changed, I had one fitted last week to my 17k miles 2013 bike.

 

[dcstrom]

I'm with Tabasco and others - mine jumped four teeth on the cam sprockets at 75,000 miles. No damage. Almost time for a valve check for you anyway. Take it to a trusted mechanic (i.e. not the one that quoted $9000) ask them to do a valve check, replace CCT, retime the cams, and odds are it will go - for not much more than the price of the valve check. Whatever you do the cams would have to be retimed anyway as the first step in diagnosis, I would think. You can't do a compression test (to check for bent valves) if the cam timing is still off.

Good luck!

 

[steve68steve]

... valve check for you anyway. Take it to a trusted mechanic (i.e. not the one that quoted $9000) ask them to do a valve check, replace CCT, retime the cams, and odds are it will go - for not much more than the price of the valve check. Whatever you do the cams would have to be retimed anyway as the first step in diagnosis, I would think. You can't do a compression test (to check for bent valves) if the cam timing is still off.

Good luck!

This is what I was trying to say about the additional work being already done.


To check the valve clearances, you have to pull the tank, airbox, throttle bodies, and a few ancillary things to get the valve cover off. If in-spec, you put it all back together.
If out, you have to pull the camshaft(s) to change the shims, then put it all back together.
To re-time, you remove the CCT to create timing chain slack, rotate the camshafts to their marks, then put it all back together.
To replace a worn timing chain, you just lift the old one off and lay the new one on.


If your valves are bent from being horribly mis-timed, you have to pull the head to replace valves, then put it all back together.


Point: the difference in the amount of work and parts between checking valves and replacing CCT and re-setting timing is very, very, little. Like, less than an hour difference. Most of the time is in getting everything torn down to get access to the camshafts, which you only do once.


If someone is doing the estimate by summing up the book time for each of those jobs (re-setting timing, replacing timing chain, checking valves, etc.), they're really charging you 3 times for removing the tank, airbox, throttle bodies, etc. If you're getting new brakes and new tires, they don't pull the wheel, swap the brakes, re-install the wheel, then pull the wheel again to replace the tires.

 

[Longdog Cymru]

CCT failure???? I thought these bikes were supposed to be bullet-proof?

 

[bmac]

CCT failure???? I thought these bikes were supposed to be bullet-proof?

They are, except for a few that think they are BMW's.

 

[Checkswrecks]

CCT failure? ??? I thought these bikes were supposed to be bullet-proof?

They are but as they are still machines, they have known issues. The CCT is the biggest but it is also well-known.

 

[Nikolajsen]

They are but as they are still machines, they have known issues. The CCT is the biggest but it is also well-known.

And as far as I have observed, must gen 1 (up to year 2014)

 

[Longdog Cymru]

Hi Nikolajsen, I am picking my 2017 non-ES bike up next week. I did lots of searches but only found out about this CCT failure thanks to you and your interesting poll. I guess it is nothing to be too concerned about but just be aware. I have read that many people have fitted manual tensioner, so I was wondering if this is a Yamaha part or an after-market part?

By the way, I am a huge fan of Denmark and have toured there a few times on my Kawasaki Versys 1000.

 

[~TABASCO~]

The manual CCT (MCCT) is not a Yamaha part. They can be found eBay and Graves motorsports.

https://www.gravesport.com/products/graves-motorsports-yamaha-r1-fz10-mt10-high-precision-cam-chain-tensioner.html

 

[tallpaul]

This one is available in the UK. It is located in Kings Lynn.