Airscrew Adjustment to fix off-idle stumble and Throttle Body Sync - w/ pigtails

[Cerenkov]

Found this when looking about the internets,

"The dealership had to contact Yamaha to figure out what to do for my FZ when it kept sputtering, popping, and stalling. I told them about the possible TPS issue but Yamaha had them re-map it and use the exhaust probe. The bike has ran like a champ ever since. The idle is at 1300 rpm the acceleration is smooth and my pipes stopped blueing."

I am going to put my COs back to zero and turn my airscrews out more

(which is horrible scientific method, lol)

 

[Tremor38]

~


Just as a quick aside...

An ECUnleashed re-flash of the ECU from AF-1 Racing completely solves any low-speed issues and stumbles. ::008::

Just FYI...

Dallara


~

Ohhhhhhh! You didn't just breach THAT subject. A couple of months back, I darn near had some guys go postal on me for saying the same thing about the Diapason flash. There is no
stumble now regardless to TCS mode.... TBS is always a good idea though. 8)

 

[Dallara]

Ohhhhhhh! You didn't just breach THAT subject. A couple of months back, I darn near had some guys go postal on me for saying the same thing about the Diapason flash. There is no stuble now regardless to TCS mode.... TBS is always a good idea though. 8)

Couldn't agree more on the TBS synch...

And it's no surprise to me that some may have gone "postal". Seems there are a lot of people out there who get pretty wound up over pretty trivial stuff!

After all, we're not curing cancer here or somehow perfecting cold fusion. ::013::

Dallara




~

 

[gharshman]

Okay, I apologize 'cause this thread is 17 pages long and this question may have come up already. I've done the 270-degree airscrew adjustment and saw some improvement. I've completed the Diag/CO change to +6 on each cyclinder and saw even more marked improvement. Question is this: Is it worth it to get a Power Commander? Or have I already achieved most of the improvement? The bike is running a stronger now, but I still have the start-up oil in it, so I'm trying to control myself. I haven't even put it in "sport" mode yet (not 'til first oil change, I'm thinking...). Any comments?

Thanks!
Glenn

 

[tomatocity]

I bet if you searched this forum for PCV or PC V you would find a better thread for that subject.

 

[Ishirock]

I finally did this after about 1500 miles on my S10. Since the process is so easy i wish i would have done it 1499 miles ago. The motor runs much smoother when idling and throughout the low rpm range. I simply set both screws at 270 degress out. My stock settings had both screws all the way in?
Notes:
My vacum lines do not have hoses on them. They are simply capped off with a small rubber nipple. I plan to run them out to the side so i can connect my home made vacum gauge the next time. Easily made from instructions on the vstrom int'l site.

Another thing to watch out for is the gas tank breather hoses will most likely come disconnected when you lift the tank. This can easily be avoided by pulling up some slack on the hoses that run to the front of the bike and hang down on the left side next to the oil filter.

Thanks for this great tip

 

[AndyCBR]

Hey guys need some advice.

My bike (like others) did not idle great and was pretty easy to stall.

Set my CO to 3 and backed out both screws to 3/4. Seemed to help.

I knew I needed to sync properly so I got a carbmate and when I went to sync I had to turn the left screw almost all the way back in to get it to sync with the right at 270 out.

I know some say the left needs to be out more and resync to the right.

For now there is still some idle variance and it seems like it could come off bottom smoother.

Any advice apprreciated!

 

[roy]

It was time:

Mileage 9972
Idle was a bit rough plus more vibration than normal, time to sync.
I installed a new air filter prior to performing job.
Motion Pro Sync PRO was the tool I used. I serviced it up with fresh fluid prior to doing job. It had been sitting a while.

My stock settings were as follows:
Left screw not quite a 1/4 turn out
Right screw bottomed out
Sync was out about 1/16" on the guage, not bad but out non the less.
I could have simply adjusted the left screw a little and brought it in but thought what the hell I'll try the 3/4 turn out thing.

I tried right screw out 1/2 turn at first and that made the left screw needed a slight 1/4 turn out to level the sync. Again I got it in sync dong this way. I proceeded to move forward. I turned the right screw out 3/4 (270 as discussed here) and the left screw required about 1/2 turn from stock setting to go into sync. So I left it at that. It's in sync on the guage and I rode it about 8 miles letting it get hot and hotter. I did many stop and go's. It hiccuped once but it did that stock a lot so I'm not worried about that. It never stalled and it didn't stock.

Conclusion, idle is smooth, throttle blipping is not this bikes strong suit, it seems a little more flat on acceleration in the 4-5k rpm range but that could just be me since I just hopped off my GSXR1000 a day ago. It has a lasting effect that makes everything afterward feel slow. > Basically if you add it all up both my screws are out about 3/4 turn (or 270 how ever you look at it) ;D I didn't plan it that way but that's how my bike turned out.

I didn't mess with the CO settings as I did not feel like taking my pannier racks and grab handles off to get at that wire under the rear cover. I'll ride it a while like this and see if more is needed but as of now it's smooth and will chug along in first gear on flat ground at 8mph. It wouldn't do that prior to sync.

 

[viewdvb]

A CAUTIONARY TALE - I thought the idea of permanent pigtails as described by Speedstar was well worth doing so I got me some pipe and other bits and pieces and did the job as he describes it. Over the next week the engine warning light flashed ever more frequently. No error code - just occasional flashing. This was not what I needed! Watching it carefully, it appeared to flash only when the throttle was closed at over 3000rpm and went out as soon as a little throttle was re-applied. AHA - that's when the vacuum is at its highest so I hoped this was connected with my recent work, especially on the pipe connected to the engine inlet pressure sensor. I dismantled the new piping expecting to find an air leak but all was fine. I replaced everything as standard and no more engine warning light. RELIEF!!! The only explanation I can come up with is that the piping I used was not robust enough or softened when it got hot so that high vacuums sucked it flat and gave bad readings on the inlet air pressure sensor. I'm not saying that you shouldn't consider the fitting of pigtails. It is still a good idea, especially for me because I have to remove my R&G crash bars before removing the side panels to enable me to lift the tank. Just that, as far as I can tell, you need to use piping that is thick walled, better with a cord reinforcement, and heat proof, perhaps something better than stock fuel piping or the type of connecting pipe that is used on most vacuum gauge kits.

 

[Dallara]

~


Now understand, this is just my own opinion... nothing more...

But as friggin' little as the TBS needs to be performed - at least on mine, using a "Harmonizer" - I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would want to fit the added complexity and potential sources of *failure* that the "pigtails" represent. It takes so little time, tools, and effort to properly flip the tank up, etc. to do the job properly it seems to just be asking for it to try to make the job easier by the fitment of a bunch of extra hoses, fittings, etc.

Guess maybe it comes from working on bikes for more than 40 years, but IMHO the best way to avoid problems is the K.I.S.S. principle...

Dallara



~

 

[~TABASCO~]

~


Now understand, this is just my own opinion... nothing more...

But as friggin' little as the TSB needs to be performed - at least on mine, using a "Harmonizer" - I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would want to fit the added complexity and potential sources of *failure* that the "pigtails" represent. It takes so little time, tools, and effort to properly flip the tank up, etc. to do the job properly it seems to just be asking for it to try to make the job easier by the fitment of a bunch of extra hoses, fittings, etc.

Guess maybe it comes from working on bikes for more than 40 years, but IMHO the best way to avoid problems is the K.I.S.S. principle...

Dallara



~

*** X2 *** DO NOT USE PIG TAILS !!!!!!!!!!!!! ::007:: Problem after problem...... When will it cool down so I can go ride... ::003::

 

[jajpko]

+3 on the pig tails. Don't need to use them. I would ditch the OEM vacuum cap on the right side and replace with a 1/8".

 

[tomatocity]

~


Now understand, this is just my own opinion... nothing more...

But as friggin' little as the TSB needs to be performed - at least on mine, using a "Harmonizer" - I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would want to fit the added complexity and potential sources of *failure* that the "pigtails" represent. It takes so little time, tools, and effort to properly flip the tank up, etc. to do the job properly it seems to just be asking for it to try to make the job easier by the fitment of a bunch of extra hoses, fittings, etc.

Guess maybe it comes from working on bikes for more than 40 years, but IMHO the best way to avoid problems is the K.I.S.S. principle...

Dallara
~

::026::

 

[roy]

Now understand, this is just my own opinion... nothing more.
But as friggin' little as the TBS needs to be performed - at least on mine, using a "Harmonizer" - I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would want to fit the added complexity and potential sources of *failure* that the "pigtails" represent. It takes so little time, tools, and effort to properly flip the tank up, etc. to do the job properly it seems to just be asking for it to try to make the job easier by the fitment of a bunch of extra hoses, fittings, etc.
Guess maybe it comes from working on bikes for more than 40 years, but IMHO the best way to avoid problems is the K.I.S.S. principle...
Dallara
~

::026:: gotta agree with this.

Keep it simple people.

 

[Steve Weber]

OMG, 18 pages and I feel like I just had a 2 hr. discussion with my wife, still confused, but I know what I'm gonna do. Get my all my tools ready before hand, take my bike on a long ride to get good and hot like your spose to before a sync, only saw one person elude to this in here, and then I'll make sure I'm in sport mode, havent seen that mentioned, and TC2 cause my reflexes forget to sometimes, make my CO adjustment based on some wild guess before any other adjustments, cant find anyone mentioning the sequence but just seems logical to do CO first, then back that right air screw 3/4ths and sync. I just havent figured out who to get PO at if I'm not satisfied. Also has anyone noticed when starting a cold bike on center stand the rear wheel turns, dont know if it does it when hot or not, could this friction affect getting idle set properly? Do any of these mods have an affect on my biggest complaint which is difficulty pulling off a harmonious shift when just easing around, seems like its hard to get just the rite amount of throttle, clutch sync?

 

[Ron_Luning]

Shifting will improve with break-in. Once you get enough miles, try a full synthetic oil made specifically for motorcycles. I noticed an improvement in shifting action. I can't quite recall how the throttle/clutch interacted before doing this modification because it has been a while.

Note that the throttle behaves very differently when the clutch is pulled in though due to the clutch switch closing. To verify the difference, check the "clutch switch mod" threads on here. In my mind, I believe that this difference is in part designed in for those like me who blip the throttle with each downshift to ease shifting. The normal throttle response would not work well with this technique and could possible result in an engine stall.

 

[Dallara]

OMG, 18 pages and I feel like I just had a 2 hr. discussion with my wife, still confused, but I know what I'm gonna do...

Wow.

Seems like you go it all figured out... No need to worry about past past posts or experience here! ::008::

You go for it! ::012::

Dallara




~

 

[switchback]

After reading all of this what is the optimum sizes for the hoses and connectors? 1/8, 7/64, or 5/32??? Is this inner diameter or outer? It was also stated that there was only a 3 mbar difference when hooking up the harmonizer directly to both throttle bodies. Are these extra t contraptions really worth the hassle? Have 3 grand on the odo and will likely be 5 grand in a week or two and I want to get this done. Also in the manual Yamaha lists all the parts to do this properly, has no one just went to the Yamaha dealer? I know motorcycle parts are expensive but a t connector and a piece of line should not be more than a few bucks even at a dealer.

 

[tomatocity]

Inside Diameter

 

[switchback]

Best diameter for connecting with Yamaha line and harmonizer? ( 1/8, 7/64, or 5/32)