2daMax
Active Member
Yes but the loosened is very little. If the pressure is insufficiently felt by the pressure sensor in the ABS system, it won't do the cycling.
ABS bleeding and failures
- Thread starter Skeezix
- Start date
2daMax
Active Member
OK an update to the rear pedal/ABS issue.
After 6 months, of having no issues, I had on 1 occasion did not ride the bike for 10 days, and the pedal got a little stuck but recovers and throws a ABS check light. I then did a 10X cycling and bleeding for the rear and about 3X for the front. So far no issues after sitting the bike for more than 10 days.
On another issue, I had been lazy with the clutch fluids where the lever doesn't actuate the slave pump. Adding salt to injury, the reservoir philips head screw got stripped and had to drill the head out. Thinking that the slave pump seals were gone, I just tried bleeding it to see if I can recover. Fortunately, it recovered back to normal. Lesson learn, clutch actuation are used more often than brakes and would require shorter bleed cycles.
It will be a yearly event to change brake and clutch fluids. And have purposely purchased 350ml size bottles instead of the 1L. Open bottles (but closed back) should be used not more than 1 year. One of my ABS issues and for the clutch was contaminating the fluids with old fluids. The corrosion factor accelerates exponentially.
After 6 months, of having no issues, I had on 1 occasion did not ride the bike for 10 days, and the pedal got a little stuck but recovers and throws a ABS check light. I then did a 10X cycling and bleeding for the rear and about 3X for the front. So far no issues after sitting the bike for more than 10 days.
On another issue, I had been lazy with the clutch fluids where the lever doesn't actuate the slave pump. Adding salt to injury, the reservoir philips head screw got stripped and had to drill the head out. Thinking that the slave pump seals were gone, I just tried bleeding it to see if I can recover. Fortunately, it recovered back to normal. Lesson learn, clutch actuation are used more often than brakes and would require shorter bleed cycles.
It will be a yearly event to change brake and clutch fluids. And have purposely purchased 350ml size bottles instead of the 1L. Open bottles (but closed back) should be used not more than 1 year. One of my ABS issues and for the clutch was contaminating the fluids with old fluids. The corrosion factor accelerates exponentially.
Boris
Well-Known Member
Front brake & clutch fluid master cylinders are JIS screws, not Phillips, ideally requiring a JIS screwdriver to undo.
2daMax
Active Member
I replaced the originals with Pozidriv since I have access to them, and the right size bit.
Hello all,
2012 S10 with 34k here and I bled my brakes all around last year before a big trip (it was due). I didn't do anything different than I usually do but I did run the rear reservoir dry but I thought I caught it before any air got in the system. On that trip I ended up getting a soft rear pedal and eventually no rear brakes. I tried bleeding a few times while on the trip only to end up with soft pedal and no rear brakes after a days ride several times. I ended up finishing the trip with no rear brakes.
I didn't know better on the trip to cycle the ABS pump. I do now and I've bled rears and cycled it 6 times and I haven't noticed any air in the lines when bleeding after that first (and subsequent) pump cycles.
Is the only real test to go out and ride and see what happens? Is the ABS activation what introduces air or just the linked brakes and the use of the front brake? How does one rule out the rear master cylinder?
BTW I have had the ABS reservoir compartment fill up with crap about 8 years ago and I had to tear apart the whole back half of the bike then to clean it out (I enlarged the drain holes then) while I was changing a bent subframe (don't ask). Ever since then the box has gotten dusty but not filled up.
A peculiar thing happens when I pump the rear brakes, it's like I can hear a whistling sound from the ABS pump area like something is stroking and moving air. I assume that is the internal pistons and the way dirt gets in the ABS pump?
The bikes been good to me and I have beaten it to death off road so throwing a $1,600 pump in it would be worth it to me but I'm not ready to fire the parts cannon just yet.
Is it true the 2014+ pump is backwards compatible with 2012?
Thanks for any advice!
2012 S10 with 34k here and I bled my brakes all around last year before a big trip (it was due). I didn't do anything different than I usually do but I did run the rear reservoir dry but I thought I caught it before any air got in the system. On that trip I ended up getting a soft rear pedal and eventually no rear brakes. I tried bleeding a few times while on the trip only to end up with soft pedal and no rear brakes after a days ride several times. I ended up finishing the trip with no rear brakes.
I didn't know better on the trip to cycle the ABS pump. I do now and I've bled rears and cycled it 6 times and I haven't noticed any air in the lines when bleeding after that first (and subsequent) pump cycles.
Is the only real test to go out and ride and see what happens? Is the ABS activation what introduces air or just the linked brakes and the use of the front brake? How does one rule out the rear master cylinder?
BTW I have had the ABS reservoir compartment fill up with crap about 8 years ago and I had to tear apart the whole back half of the bike then to clean it out (I enlarged the drain holes then) while I was changing a bent subframe (don't ask). Ever since then the box has gotten dusty but not filled up.
A peculiar thing happens when I pump the rear brakes, it's like I can hear a whistling sound from the ABS pump area like something is stroking and moving air. I assume that is the internal pistons and the way dirt gets in the ABS pump?
The bikes been good to me and I have beaten it to death off road so throwing a $1,600 pump in it would be worth it to me but I'm not ready to fire the parts cannon just yet.
Is it true the 2014+ pump is backwards compatible with 2012?
Thanks for any advice!
Last edited:
Cross post from another thread
paste begins:
Hello, I'm following up.
I bought a used, known good, ABS pumps from Mr. BR above and used it on my summer trip with great success. Man that is a pretty tough installation, a 10mm crows foot socket is a MUST.
While I was on my trip I mailed my original ABS pump to DIag Engine. The air freight cost me $75. I prepaid 408 Euro (about $450 USD). which included the return air freight. I did have trouble using a credit card with their site. I tried two cards that I have that don't have Foreign transaction fees but I was never able to get the cards to go through at checkout. Rather than deal with calling the vendor in France (language barrier and time zone difference) I used paypal with success. You are paying a slightly worse exchange rate with paypal as the FTF is "built-in" but it went through for me.
Within a few days of receipt DIag Engine had my rebuilt pump on its way back to me!
Now, I haven't installed the rebuilt one yet, but I have no reason to believe it doesn't work as designed. I'll install it over this winter as there is no urgency and I'll report back if something isn't right.
I highly recommend Diag Engine for this repair! I would definitely do this over a new pump from Yamaha!
Soft rear brake pedal woes…
Hey all I posted this in the sticky thread and it doesn’t appear to be showing up as a new post. TIA for any advice! Hello all, 2012 S10 with 34k here and I bled my brakes all around last year before a big trip (it was due). I didn't do anything different than I usually do but I did run the...
yamahasupertenere.com
paste begins:
Hello, I'm following up.
I bought a used, known good, ABS pumps from Mr. BR above and used it on my summer trip with great success. Man that is a pretty tough installation, a 10mm crows foot socket is a MUST.
While I was on my trip I mailed my original ABS pump to DIag Engine. The air freight cost me $75. I prepaid 408 Euro (about $450 USD). which included the return air freight. I did have trouble using a credit card with their site. I tried two cards that I have that don't have Foreign transaction fees but I was never able to get the cards to go through at checkout. Rather than deal with calling the vendor in France (language barrier and time zone difference) I used paypal with success. You are paying a slightly worse exchange rate with paypal as the FTF is "built-in" but it went through for me.
Within a few days of receipt DIag Engine had my rebuilt pump on its way back to me!
Now, I haven't installed the rebuilt one yet, but I have no reason to believe it doesn't work as designed. I'll install it over this winter as there is no urgency and I'll report back if something isn't right.
I highly recommend Diag Engine for this repair! I would definitely do this over a new pump from Yamaha!
Attachments
patrickg450
Well-Known Member
good to know, I still have my bad one.......
Mr. BR
Active Member
Very happy to hear that the ABS unit I sent you worked out! My original unit continues to be be error-free since I fixed my loose fuse issue.
I could stand to give the entire system another bleed but all good otherwise.
Mr. BR
MidlifeMotor
Member
Found this old thread before starting a new one. Looks like this has been covered many times. 2012 with 70k miles and never had an issue with the bike, other than I had to replace the thermostat. Just changed out front and rear brake fluid and took bike for ride and deliberately activated ABS with rear brake numerous times with no problem. Then for some reason, did it one last time and ABS light came on. If I turned key off and restarted bike, ABS would work temporarily then the light would come on. Now, I get one good hard stop and ABS light comes on. Any thoughts?
I'm going to try to activate ABS using jumper wire technique and bleed lines again. This is frustrating because I have never had an issue with it until I changed the fluid. Fluid has been changed out before.
I'm going to try to activate ABS using jumper wire technique and bleed lines again. This is frustrating because I have never had an issue with it until I changed the fluid. Fluid has been changed out before.
You say that you tried to activate the ABS deliberately using the rear brake…that it worked for a while and then the light came back on…You should reset the ABS and “do not touch the rear brake”…only brake with the front brake…to check if the light comes back on…and the question would be if before changing the brake fluid, you had activated the ABS (deliberately or not)…maybe the ABS was “faulty”, only you didn’t know because you hadn’t used it
patrickg450
Well-Known Member
I wonder how much my o9ld ABS pump is worth, is anyone wanting to buy an old pump and get it repaired?
MidlifeMotor
Member
Thanks for the input. I don't think the ABS was faulty and I didn't know it. I've never had it not work, and occasionally attempt to lock up rear wheel to test it. I have grandpa duty through today and can't get to the bike for another day or two. Any suggestions on this are appreciated.
Cycledude
Well-Known Member
Everyone with these ABS failures should report them to NTSHA, then maybe Yamaha would be forced to actually fix the problems instead of selling you a new ridiculously high priced replacement pump.
www.google.com
Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA
File a complaint with NHTSA if you experienced a vehicle, tire, car seat or equipment safety problem that could be a safety defect.
patrickg450
Well-Known Member
Everyone with these ABS failures should report them to NTSHA, then maybe Yamaha would be forced to actually fix the problems instead of selling you a new ridiculously high priced replacement pump.
Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA
File a complaint with NHTSA if you experienced a vehicle, tire, car seat or equipment safety problem that could be a safety defect.
I reported mine!!
MidlifeMotor
Member
I got to spend a little time reading the service manual and going over the S10. I did the two hydraulic tests listed in the service manual, using a paperclip in the plug under the seat. Definitely need to have battery at max charge to do this. I had to stop a few times to hook the battery back up to the tender as I wanted to cycle it numerous times. I checked for error codes and got 11,25, and 73. The FSM says 11,25 will be error codes when the rear wheel moves and the front does not, such as when its running on the center stand. I have done this before so I cleared the error codes and started over. At first no error codes, then 73 popped again. I took it out for a ride and really pounded the brakes. ABS functioned great over about 20 hard stops and was functioning fine. Just before I got home, I did one more for giggles and the ABS worked but the light came on. I turned key off, then on again and could not replicate the problem or get the ABS light to come back on. Fault code 73 states there's a pressure issue in the rear brakes between the caliper and master cylinder. I did not rebuilt the rear master cylinder and will order a kit to do so. I think that's gonna be the issue, we will see.
The idea of cycling the ABS is to remove the fluid and any air inside the module and send it to the direct brake line. Inside the module, there is a direct line and a bypass line that removes pressure from the caliper and sends it back (between the lever and the module). If you cycle the ABS, you should bleed the system after cycling. There is also a brake pressure sensor and a decelerator sensor. Everything has to match the preset values (brake pressure, deceleration, wheel lock) for the ABS to work... or not.
MidlifeMotor
Member
Great info, thank you.
MidlifeMotor
Member
ABS light came back on again. Strange, because I was not braking hard and start up was normal. Pulled over, turned off key, back on, and all reset. Light came back on after picking up speed. Got home late so I figured I would diagnose the next day. Followed problem solving flow chart in service manual. Fault code showed issue with rear ABS sensor. Sure enough, bolt holding sensor had worked loose and sensor was wiggling. Small amount of Loc-tite, torqued bold down, and two weeks later still no problem. That flow chart in the service manual sure is handy.