patrickg450
Well-Known Member
I exercise my ABS everytime I ride
ABS bleeding and failures
- Thread starter Skeezix
- Start date
EricV
Riding, farkling, riding...
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Interesting. I've never ridden a '13 model. My '12 did not behave that way, the ABS light just cycles with the rest and goes out. My '15 does what you describe for your '13, which I find interesting, since the '13 is still a Gen I bike and I don't recall reading about any improvements for the '13 model year, (but it wouldn't have been something I paid attention to at that time either).
B
ballisticexchris
Guest
Well I just fished up my first brake/clutch flush on this bike and was amazed how filthy the fluid was. Clutch fluid was so nasty I had to take a paper towel to remove black residue. I can't imagine anyone just running a bike and not doing frequent flushes. This bike was manufactured in 2017 and I have had it one year and just over 3000 miles.
As far as the ABS flush I'm not sure if it cycled or not. I did not feel anything other than watching the ABS light blink. I try to use my ABS at least a few times per ride anyway.
I'm going to treat this bike like all my bikes. Coolant and brake/clutch flushes at least once a season. IMO all these guys who brag about never changing these fluids are just tempting fate.
BTW I was very surprised and pleased at how huge the front brake reservoir is. I'm so used to dealing with the small ones in the past. The Super Tenere has a "super sized" high capacity dirt bike style one.
Nasty dirty crud. The clutch fluid was twice as bad:
This is more like it:
The rear was not quite as bad but still dirty:
Much better:
As far as the ABS flush I'm not sure if it cycled or not. I did not feel anything other than watching the ABS light blink. I try to use my ABS at least a few times per ride anyway.
I'm going to treat this bike like all my bikes. Coolant and brake/clutch flushes at least once a season. IMO all these guys who brag about never changing these fluids are just tempting fate.
BTW I was very surprised and pleased at how huge the front brake reservoir is. I'm so used to dealing with the small ones in the past. The Super Tenere has a "super sized" high capacity dirt bike style one.
Nasty dirty crud. The clutch fluid was twice as bad:
This is more like it:
The rear was not quite as bad but still dirty:
Much better:
Black_Magic
New Member
I had my ABS light come on and lose any pressure from the rear pedal the other week.
After doing a bit of searching here I've done a fluid change on clutch and brakes and cycled the ABS pump three times using the jumper and bled the brakes again. I did get a fair bit of air out of the back end when doing the fluid change.
1-2 weeks later, maybe 200 miles I again have little to no brakes on the rear unless I pump it, it does give feel sooner if the front brake is pulled first (ABS pump pre-pressurises rear). I pumped the pedal by hand and saw the rear reservoir level go down - so I 'know' there is air in the rear brakes again. The ABS light has not illuminated (Outside of the normal test @ power up) again.
Is there a way to confirm that the ABS pump is sucking air in for sure without shotgunning other (cheaper) new parts at the bike? I think a rear master cylinder is ~$20-30 (edit: no idea where I saw that price, Rockymountainatv is $135) but I'd rather not throw parts at it that she doesn't need.
The bike is a 2012 with 22-23,000 miles on it, 6k since last july.
After doing a bit of searching here I've done a fluid change on clutch and brakes and cycled the ABS pump three times using the jumper and bled the brakes again. I did get a fair bit of air out of the back end when doing the fluid change.
1-2 weeks later, maybe 200 miles I again have little to no brakes on the rear unless I pump it, it does give feel sooner if the front brake is pulled first (ABS pump pre-pressurises rear). I pumped the pedal by hand and saw the rear reservoir level go down - so I 'know' there is air in the rear brakes again. The ABS light has not illuminated (Outside of the normal test @ power up) again.
Is there a way to confirm that the ABS pump is sucking air in for sure without shotgunning other (cheaper) new parts at the bike? I think a rear master cylinder is ~$20-30 (edit: no idea where I saw that price, Rockymountainatv is $135) but I'd rather not throw parts at it that she doesn't need.
The bike is a 2012 with 22-23,000 miles on it, 6k since last july.
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Black_Magic
New Member
I just picked up on this:
How To: Cycle the ABS Pump
Here's how to use the S10 built in ABS pump cycling feature. Tools Needed: 1. Jumper wire with both ends stripped. 2. Mini Screw Driver to remove the waterproof rubber bungs. 3. Fully Charged Battery. 3. Locate the 4-way connector under the main seat. 4. Remove the 2 rubber bungs on Blue...
www.yamahasupertenere.com
Moar bleeding!
eheal6520
Member
I hope I'm not beating a dead horse so here goes.…
I have a 2012 S10 with 120K miles on her and not to long ago my back brake refused to work. No lever movement and no rear breaking. I thought, must be a bad rear break master cylinder, so I ordered a rebuild kit for it. I installed the kit and went thru the bleed process as outlined in the manual and cycled the ABS pump. BTW, stepping on the brake with the jumper in and then turning the key on activates the pump, simple. Anyway, at this point when I cycle the pump I can feel it in the rear break lever (and the front when I hold them together) and it appears that the line at the top of the rear break master cylinder is full of fluid. My problem is the line going to the caliper is not filling up and the fluid in the reservoir is not dropping. I have cycled the pump so many times now I am concerned I might burn out the motor (30-40+).
I have to admit that I am "one of those guys" that never cycled out the old break fluid for new.. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.... Actually, I was afraid to mess with the ABS. I am rapidly learning this lesson the hard way....
Any ideas about what would be causing this to happen? I have run out of ideas...
Also, Thanks to everyone that has contributed to this thread, it's been a big help.
I have a 2012 S10 with 120K miles on her and not to long ago my back brake refused to work. No lever movement and no rear breaking. I thought, must be a bad rear break master cylinder, so I ordered a rebuild kit for it. I installed the kit and went thru the bleed process as outlined in the manual and cycled the ABS pump. BTW, stepping on the brake with the jumper in and then turning the key on activates the pump, simple. Anyway, at this point when I cycle the pump I can feel it in the rear break lever (and the front when I hold them together) and it appears that the line at the top of the rear break master cylinder is full of fluid. My problem is the line going to the caliper is not filling up and the fluid in the reservoir is not dropping. I have cycled the pump so many times now I am concerned I might burn out the motor (30-40+).
I have to admit that I am "one of those guys" that never cycled out the old break fluid for new.. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.... Actually, I was afraid to mess with the ABS. I am rapidly learning this lesson the hard way....
Any ideas about what would be causing this to happen? I have run out of ideas...
Also, Thanks to everyone that has contributed to this thread, it's been a big help.
ABS is gone , just bleed again , do not cycle ABS . Bleed right front , left front , rear, pull ABS motor fuse out . You have both brakes now , just no ABS .
2daMax
Active Member
Hard rear brake pedal is caused by the UBS valves (2 of them) sticking closed. If u manage to unstuck the rear pedal by heavy stepping on it, you can go into ABS cycling mode. After the first successful cycle, leave the key ON, and rotate the rear wheel in the moving forward direction, while keeping the wheel spinning, press the front brake. This will cause the UBS to somewhat activate the UBS related valves. You can hear sounds of liquid moving inside the ABS module. Then check if you can still bleed the rear brakes.
If at this point u are successful, the UBS valves are probably sticky and require a lot of flushing and actuation of the valves (2 UBS valves and the In and Out valves).
I'm currently have this rear pedal stuck but I can unstuck it by pressing it hard. Had done bleeding it and cycled 10X. Rode the bike and it got stuck immediately, unstuck it but rode without ABS to work. Usually, if u off the key, the valves may open up and I usually just hard brake on the front only a few times, and then the ABS works all the way. I did not encounter rear pedal stuck on my way home. ANyway, I did another 10X cycling and about 3X 'UBS valve - moving the rear wheel and activating the front brakes' . Will know if it improves on this coming Friday.
If at this point u are successful, the UBS valves are probably sticky and require a lot of flushing and actuation of the valves (2 UBS valves and the In and Out valves).
I'm currently have this rear pedal stuck but I can unstuck it by pressing it hard. Had done bleeding it and cycled 10X. Rode the bike and it got stuck immediately, unstuck it but rode without ABS to work. Usually, if u off the key, the valves may open up and I usually just hard brake on the front only a few times, and then the ABS works all the way. I did not encounter rear pedal stuck on my way home. ANyway, I did another 10X cycling and about 3X 'UBS valve - moving the rear wheel and activating the front brakes' . Will know if it improves on this coming Friday.
2daMax
Active Member
Some correction to the UBS activation while bike is stationary on double stand with the rear wheel being moved while the key is on. It doesn't actuate the UBS. What gets moving inside the ABS is probably pressure dampers. I can hear fluids moving when doing that. Somewhat, the rear pedal gets better and more firm, less spongy feeling.
Anyway, after doing the following, it seems to have cured the rear pedal being hard to depress:
1. 10X cycling. Each cycle, would push out 3X pedal pumping, on week 1. Still get a few sticking issues on the start of the ride which deactivates UBS and ABS.
2. 10X cycling. Same 3X pedal pumping per cycle, on week 2. Still get sticking issues, which deactivates UBS and ABS.
3. 7X cycling. Same 3X pedal pumping per cycle, on week 3. No more sticking issues. Still monitoring if sticking would return and would probably do another few rounds of cycling the ABS.
When it sticks, got to push hard on the pedal to 'retract' the valve, To activate ABS, the bike needs to be shut off and then on again. If it doesn't stick, the ABS and UBS would function.
On some occasions when I was having this issue, using only the front brakes would enable the ABS and UBS to work, but once the rear pedal is pressed, the UBS valve gets stuck and the rear pedal becomes hard.
Anyway, after doing the following, it seems to have cured the rear pedal being hard to depress:
1. 10X cycling. Each cycle, would push out 3X pedal pumping, on week 1. Still get a few sticking issues on the start of the ride which deactivates UBS and ABS.
2. 10X cycling. Same 3X pedal pumping per cycle, on week 2. Still get sticking issues, which deactivates UBS and ABS.
3. 7X cycling. Same 3X pedal pumping per cycle, on week 3. No more sticking issues. Still monitoring if sticking would return and would probably do another few rounds of cycling the ABS.
When it sticks, got to push hard on the pedal to 'retract' the valve, To activate ABS, the bike needs to be shut off and then on again. If it doesn't stick, the ABS and UBS would function.
On some occasions when I was having this issue, using only the front brakes would enable the ABS and UBS to work, but once the rear pedal is pressed, the UBS valve gets stuck and the rear pedal becomes hard.
Kruzzin5
Well-Known Member
Please keep us updated with your progress.
2daMax
Active Member
An Update:
So far I have done:
1. 10X Cycling
2. 10X Cycling (after 1st cycle, rear brake is hard)
3. 7X Cycling (after 1st cycle, rear brake is hard)
Went for a ride after about 10 days since the last Cycling. Morning, rear brake pedal is stuck hard but was kind of easy to overcome, whereby I do not need to overcome it by hard pressing with the heel of the boot. On previous occasion, I would need to use the heel of the boot. So there is some improvements. In the same day, evening, no issues until after 20 minutes of riding I was leaning and went through some ruts on the road paint markers. Hard pedal again. Was easy to overcome again. On/Off the bike and was good as gold.
4. 8X cycling in the Morning. I suspect with colder temperatures, the valves tends to get tighter so I did the cycling in the morning. No hard rear after 1st cycling. Will test again on next ride this Friday. To save fluids, every 1 or 2 pedal pumping out for each cycling.
Overall, I can feel there is improvement as the hard pedal is easy to overcome. It was really hard at #2 and requires the heel of the boots to overcome.
So far I have done:
1. 10X Cycling
2. 10X Cycling (after 1st cycle, rear brake is hard)
3. 7X Cycling (after 1st cycle, rear brake is hard)
Went for a ride after about 10 days since the last Cycling. Morning, rear brake pedal is stuck hard but was kind of easy to overcome, whereby I do not need to overcome it by hard pressing with the heel of the boot. On previous occasion, I would need to use the heel of the boot. So there is some improvements. In the same day, evening, no issues until after 20 minutes of riding I was leaning and went through some ruts on the road paint markers. Hard pedal again. Was easy to overcome again. On/Off the bike and was good as gold.
4. 8X cycling in the Morning. I suspect with colder temperatures, the valves tends to get tighter so I did the cycling in the morning. No hard rear after 1st cycling. Will test again on next ride this Friday. To save fluids, every 1 or 2 pedal pumping out for each cycling.
Overall, I can feel there is improvement as the hard pedal is easy to overcome. It was really hard at #2 and requires the heel of the boots to overcome.
MattR
Well-Known Member
Have you changed the master cylinder piston assembly?
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2daMax
Active Member
No. Nothing wrong with the part.
2daMax
Active Member
Reviving the Rear ABS circuit. An Update:
Method A: For every Cycling, pump the pedal 2X to 3X to evacuate the fluids from the valves.
Method B: Fluid saver. For every 5X Cycling, pump the pedal 3X.
Spread out as follows:
1. 10X Cycling (Method A) - When test riding, pedal is hard. Have to stop the bike and use the heel of the boots to hard press to regain use of rear. After 20 mins ride, on-off, rear and ABS works fine.
2. 10X Cycling (after 1st cycle, rear brake is hard, Method A) - When test riding, pedal is hard. Have to stop the bike and use the heel of the boots to hard press to regain use of rear. After 20 mins ride, on-off, rear and ABS works fine.
3. 7X Cycling (after 1st cycle, rear brake is hard, Method A) - When test riding, pedal is hard. Have to stop the bike but less effort to press the pedal to regain use of rear. After 20 mins ride, on-off, rear and ABS works fine.
4. 8X cycling (after 1st cycle, rear brake is not hard, performed in the morning, Method A) - When test riding, pedal is hard but a lot easy to over come even while riding. Would require a few pedal presses to fully free up the pedal. After 20 mins of riding, rear and ABS works fine.
5. 5X cycling but without bleeding. - When test riding, pedal is hard but a lot easy to over come even while riding. Would require a few pedal presses to fully free up the pedal and seems harder than #4. After 20 mins of riding, rear and ABS works fine. Not a good idea to not bleed after cycling.
6. 15X cycling (After 1st cycling, pedal is hard. Method B). - When test riding, pedal is hard but very easy to depress, just like a normal event but ABS turns off. After 20 mins ride, on-off and ABS is ok.
Seems to be improving. Another 15X Cycling Method B for the next event.
Method A: For every Cycling, pump the pedal 2X to 3X to evacuate the fluids from the valves.
Method B: Fluid saver. For every 5X Cycling, pump the pedal 3X.
Spread out as follows:
1. 10X Cycling (Method A) - When test riding, pedal is hard. Have to stop the bike and use the heel of the boots to hard press to regain use of rear. After 20 mins ride, on-off, rear and ABS works fine.
2. 10X Cycling (after 1st cycle, rear brake is hard, Method A) - When test riding, pedal is hard. Have to stop the bike and use the heel of the boots to hard press to regain use of rear. After 20 mins ride, on-off, rear and ABS works fine.
3. 7X Cycling (after 1st cycle, rear brake is hard, Method A) - When test riding, pedal is hard. Have to stop the bike but less effort to press the pedal to regain use of rear. After 20 mins ride, on-off, rear and ABS works fine.
4. 8X cycling (after 1st cycle, rear brake is not hard, performed in the morning, Method A) - When test riding, pedal is hard but a lot easy to over come even while riding. Would require a few pedal presses to fully free up the pedal. After 20 mins of riding, rear and ABS works fine.
5. 5X cycling but without bleeding. - When test riding, pedal is hard but a lot easy to over come even while riding. Would require a few pedal presses to fully free up the pedal and seems harder than #4. After 20 mins of riding, rear and ABS works fine. Not a good idea to not bleed after cycling.
6. 15X cycling (After 1st cycling, pedal is hard. Method B). - When test riding, pedal is hard but very easy to depress, just like a normal event but ABS turns off. After 20 mins ride, on-off and ABS is ok.
Seems to be improving. Another 15X Cycling Method B for the next event.
2daMax
Active Member
An update 28-April-2023
Method A: For every Cycling, pump the pedal 2X to 3X to evacuate the fluids from the valves.
Method B: Fluid saver. For every 5X Cycling, pump the pedal 3X.
Spread out as follows:
1. 10X Cycling (Method A) - When test riding, pedal is hard. Have to stop the bike and use the heel of the boots to hard press to regain use of rear. After 20 mins ride, on-off, rear and ABS works fine.
2. 10X Cycling (after 1st cycle, rear brake is hard, Method A) - When test riding, pedal is hard. Have to stop the bike and use the heel of the boots to hard press to regain use of rear. After 20 mins ride, on-off, rear and ABS works fine.
3. 7X Cycling (after 1st cycle, rear brake is hard, Method A) - When test riding, pedal is hard. Have to stop the bike but less effort to press the pedal to regain use of rear. After 20 mins ride, on-off, rear and ABS works fine.
4. 8X cycling (after 1st cycle, rear brake is not hard, performed in the morning, Method A) - When test riding, pedal is hard but a lot easy to over come even while riding. Would require a few pedal presses to fully free up the pedal. After 20 mins of riding, rear and ABS works fine.
5. 5X cycling but without bleeding. - When test riding, pedal is hard but a lot easy to over come even while riding. Would require a few pedal presses to fully free up the pedal and seems harder than #4. After 20 mins of riding, rear and ABS works fine. Not a good idea to not bleed after cycling.
6. 15X cycling (After 1st cycling, pedal is hard but easy to depress. Method B). - When test riding, pedal is hard but very easy to depress, just like a normal event but ABS turns off. After 20 mins ride, on-off and ABS is ok.
7. 20X cycling (After 1st cycling, pedal is stuck somewhat but very easy to depress, Method B but bleed with single pumping after 1st cycle) - Test rode in the morning, and no sticky pedal. Hooray!
75X cycling and bleeding seems to do the fix.
Seem to have recovered to normal behavior for the rear ABS. No more sticky valves for now. I will probably do another 10X to polish off any remnants corrosion and a thorough bleeding to finish off the bottle of fluid.
Here's what a corroded ABS valve looks like. Plated with copper ions which the brake fluid being worn out of corrosion inhibitors failed to take care of.
www.brakeandfrontend.com
Method A: For every Cycling, pump the pedal 2X to 3X to evacuate the fluids from the valves.
Method B: Fluid saver. For every 5X Cycling, pump the pedal 3X.
Spread out as follows:
1. 10X Cycling (Method A) - When test riding, pedal is hard. Have to stop the bike and use the heel of the boots to hard press to regain use of rear. After 20 mins ride, on-off, rear and ABS works fine.
2. 10X Cycling (after 1st cycle, rear brake is hard, Method A) - When test riding, pedal is hard. Have to stop the bike and use the heel of the boots to hard press to regain use of rear. After 20 mins ride, on-off, rear and ABS works fine.
3. 7X Cycling (after 1st cycle, rear brake is hard, Method A) - When test riding, pedal is hard. Have to stop the bike but less effort to press the pedal to regain use of rear. After 20 mins ride, on-off, rear and ABS works fine.
4. 8X cycling (after 1st cycle, rear brake is not hard, performed in the morning, Method A) - When test riding, pedal is hard but a lot easy to over come even while riding. Would require a few pedal presses to fully free up the pedal. After 20 mins of riding, rear and ABS works fine.
5. 5X cycling but without bleeding. - When test riding, pedal is hard but a lot easy to over come even while riding. Would require a few pedal presses to fully free up the pedal and seems harder than #4. After 20 mins of riding, rear and ABS works fine. Not a good idea to not bleed after cycling.
6. 15X cycling (After 1st cycling, pedal is hard but easy to depress. Method B). - When test riding, pedal is hard but very easy to depress, just like a normal event but ABS turns off. After 20 mins ride, on-off and ABS is ok.
7. 20X cycling (After 1st cycling, pedal is stuck somewhat but very easy to depress, Method B but bleed with single pumping after 1st cycle) - Test rode in the morning, and no sticky pedal. Hooray!
75X cycling and bleeding seems to do the fix.
Seem to have recovered to normal behavior for the rear ABS. No more sticky valves for now. I will probably do another 10X to polish off any remnants corrosion and a thorough bleeding to finish off the bottle of fluid.
Here's what a corroded ABS valve looks like. Plated with copper ions which the brake fluid being worn out of corrosion inhibitors failed to take care of.
Troubleshooting ABS Modulator Mechanical Problems
Mechanical issues with the ABS modulator, or hydraulic control units (HCU), are rare, but they can happen. Find out how to fix ABS modulator problems.
www.brakeandfrontend.com
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2daMax
Active Member
Update:
The sticky valve showed it self after a while of not riding the bike (< 10 days). Further cycling about 18X with each cycle followed with a stroke of the pedal to bleed out the fluids, and so far so good, even after 1 week of not riding the bike.
I believe the best way to cycle and bleed is to perform 1X cycling, 1X pedal bleed rather than what I have mentioned earlier about 5X cycling and bleed out 3X pedal. This would help move away the fallen debris each time the valves are actuated.
The sticky valve showed it self after a while of not riding the bike (< 10 days). Further cycling about 18X with each cycle followed with a stroke of the pedal to bleed out the fluids, and so far so good, even after 1 week of not riding the bike.
I believe the best way to cycle and bleed is to perform 1X cycling, 1X pedal bleed rather than what I have mentioned earlier about 5X cycling and bleed out 3X pedal. This would help move away the fallen debris each time the valves are actuated.
patrickg450
Well-Known Member
no
AntrimMan
Member
This is a question, it is not advice, it is intended for the purpose of discussion only, has anyone ever loosened a caliper bleeder while the abs pump is running?
All the best.
All the best.