Yamaha UK to stop selling new Tenere's

[Rasher]

They do not seem to know about this yet but a quick look at the competition for this season tells me otherwise.

Just been reading about the new kids on the block in Ride Magazine, they test the new KTM and BMW (Both get great reviews - certainly better than any UK review of a Tenere I have ever read) and sum up the other Adventure bikes on the market, OK some have no off-road pretensions and others don't have a shaft so if you want a shaft driven bike with off-road abilities the choice is really down to BMW Vs Yamaha - and I suspect most Yamaha sales to date have been GS owners who got fed up with breaking down, but with very few UK riders actually wanting / needing any off-road ability this is a small section of the market, most sales are generated from the ageing biking population swapping a sportsbike for something that better suits their 40-60 year old knackered body, and often they don't want to slow down too much either, in fact in the UK large capacity naked bikes are also in competition with bikes like the Fazer also being contenders for the ex-sportsbike owner.

New Tenere - £11,999

BMW GS - £11,395 with ABS, and for £12,435 you can have the four mode TC, Cruise Control and Wire wheels, although you can argue it will break down and fall apart in no time, the buying public generally believe BMW offer a premium product and a Yamaha should be cheaper - and on spec I would say the BMW does look better value, if I did not know about the issues of BMW ownership the Yamaha would not get a look in, and even the last GS was a fantastic bike to ride (I prefer it to the Tenere TBH)


New KTM 1190 Adventure - £12,595

Another "latest and greatest" bike, looks fantastic, has a whopping 150BHP, TC and ABS, comes with high spec (WP) suspension, also considered a premium brand in the UK (or maybe exotic is a better word)


Looking at other bikes from yesteryear the Yamaha seems expensive:-

Triumph Explorer - £11,199 The wonderful triple motor appeals to UK riders, especially those coming to Adv bikes from sportsbikes, cruise control, TC and ABS and still a grand under the Yamaha


Honda Crosstourer - £11,475 with ABS, Shaft Drive, Traction Control and a V4 engine - you may not want one, but it looks like a more expensive and exotic bit of kit at less money, with "Honda reliability", Honda also have the ageing Varedero at a bargain £9125 - although they are welcome to keep it at any money in my book.


Kawasaki Versys 1000 - £9599 Fast, Comfy, Reliable & Cheap - probably ticks the top 3 boxes for many credit crunch buyers.


Moto Guzzi Stelvio - £11,099 a well underated bike IMO, very close to buying one myself.


It seems few UK owners have bought brand new without big discounts and most Tenere's end up being sold as Ex-Demo's as Yamaha seem to have struggled to offload them at the rather high new price, the competition is tough and generally either much cheaper, or much more exotic.

 

[greg the pole]

i subscribe to bike magazine, and have been reading that yamaha discounted the price of the R1, super ten, and the fjr. Still that's high.
Problem is, that european prices are way higher than what we pay in north america.
the official bmw website does not list the price (or at least I can't find it) but I think base will be $15-$16 grand.
you have to pay some more to get the TC etc..
I was in Paris back in 2010, when the ST first came out, they were asking $15000 euro's for it back then... that's rich.
If it came down to performance, the KTM would get the nod
If I didnt know about the finer points of bmw ownership, on paper the bmw would get the nod.
but having owned all japanese bikes my entire riding career, the yamaha would win. they are $17.5 all in (CDN price, they can be had for much less in the US OF A ::015:
triumph...not sure, felt heavy, fantastic road bike, not so good off road.
Honda went to a one dealership format in NA. basically shooting themselves in the foot.
Back in 2009 or so, they 'introduced' the varadero, for a measly $17 grand.
This boat anchor that came out in europe in 99 was supposed to be cutting edge.
They were so overpriced that honda has a load of them left behind, and they are selling for as low as $9 plus tax here in Canada.
The new honda is not yet available in canada, but there was talk of it coming here, for a paltry... $22 plus plus plus.

For what the tenere cost, it cannot be beat, the reliability (except the damn spokes) is fantastic. I may curse the bike when it comes time to do the valves,
but everything else is a doddle. i like it, no complaints.
I'm hoping they bring the 660 tenere here, that would be sweet.

 

[markjenn]

Many have complained about Yamaha UK pricing in the past for the S10, FJR, and others. I don't know whether UK pricing is reflective of pricing in Europe in general or is a specific market. I recall reading somewhere that the FJR in the UK is more expensive than the six-cyl K1600GT and this is truly ridiculous.

In the US, many have done the list price comparison and usually it shows the BMW GS to be about $3500 more comparatively equipped. BMW appears to be holding the pricing on the new model pretty close to the old one, so I don't expect things to change much. This is a nice price advantage but not a decisive one.

I do think Yamaha is either going to have to respond with a significant update to the S10 and/or get VERY aggressive on pricing. A reputation for superior Japanese reliability will only carry you so far and it is not like the S10 is flawless in this area either. BMW is now selling about 30K R1200GS models per year worldwide; I doubt Yamaha is doing 10% of this. One of the German magazines recently tested eight liter-plus adventure bikes and the S10 was overall the least powerful and is now down a solid 20-25 HP on the new GS. And this is not a situation where high-RPM power has been produced at the expense of low-RPM torque - the BMW makes about 20% more torque across the entire rev range.

- Mark

 

[greg the pole]

the thing with power is this (my opinion): it sells to most people, the larger the hp number the better for most (bragging rights)
The GS will have a big advantage if it's used strictly as a sport tourer.
the extra 25 hp will not be needed in the gravel, off road etc.. as it stands, the ST is no slouch with it's low 92 hp (rw hp).
I don't look for the extra power, it's well geared (compared to my vstrom 1000, which was a bit tall in 6th gear).
as I said earlier, the ST is super easy to work on, reliable, and simply does it all.
I do ride faster bikes, but I rarely use the extra power, sure it's fun for shits and giggles, but not needed all the time.

I do agree with Mark, that the jap reliability can be sold only so much, it will come down to the person buying.

The price difference is even bigger in Candada. A decent GS will run close to $22 otd, whereas the ST will be $17.5 all in.
BMW has done wonders for itself with the marketing, a run of close to 30 yrs to get the GS right (still getting it right), Charlie Mcgregor ::014:: did it lots of favours with
long way round/down. It's the IT bike for a lot of guys, at the show this year it was getting a lot of attention.
to each his own, i'm very happy on the ST.

 

[Dallara]

...A reputation for superior Japanese reliability will only carry you so far and it is not like the S10 is flawless in this area either.

What? Where is the S-10 less than "flawless" when it comes to reliability and dependability??? ???

Especially against the long history of G/S's being problem (and recall) ridden??? :

...BMW is now selling about 30K R1200GS models per year worldwide; I doubt Yamaha is doing 10% of this.

So you're totally unsubstantiated conclusion is that BMW sells more than 30,000 R1200G/S's worldwide while Yamaha is selling less than 3,000 Super Tenere's? :-\

Geez, Mark... You're beginning to set the ol' *hyperbole* bar to all new heights!!!

I swear, you appear to have such a deep-seated lascivious lust and salacious, salivating longing for the BMW G/S I think you better run right out and get one before you stain your pants... ::025::

Dallara



~

 

[Mike Sisson]

A reputation for superior Japanese reliability will only carry you so far and it is not like the S10 is flawless in this area either.

- Mark

:question:

 

[autoteach]

well, you know it had the o ring problem and also has a hard start issue. oh, and dont forget the headlight wiring. I think I would rather have a GS after thinking about it. Like my buddy, who got a whole brand new bike after it was consuming over a qt of oil per 1000 miles and they would only give him a new top end, so he stomped his feet for the new one. The whole time the were telling him this was normal consumption during break in.

 

[Dallara]

well, you know it had the o ring problem and also has a ***PERCEIVED*** hard start issue *THAT IS MOST LIKELY ENTIRELY DUE TO OPERATOR ERROR* . oh, and dont forget the headlight wiring. I think I would rather have a GS after thinking about it. Like my buddy, who got a whole brand new bike after it was consuming over a qt of oil per 1000 miles and they would only give him a new top end, so he stomped his feet for the new one. The whole time the were telling him this was normal consumption during break in.

There, autoteach... I fixed it for ya'!

Dallara


~

 

[snakebitten]

You CAN make a list of all the issues that a Tenere has, just as you could for any bike. But the Tenere list borders on "petty".

Seriously. It's crazy how this bike, after thousands and thousands of miles racked up world wide, is still short a few horror stories. And it has been bashed around and mistreated enough to expose a general weakness.

I've never seen anything like it in my lifetime.

 

[jrb_nw]

Not sure where you get a delta of $3500 when comparing the GS to the Tenere here in the USA. When I was looking at new GS's last year it was going to be $20K OTD with the BMW bags, a skid plate, heated grips, ABS, etc. Not fully loaded. And not including sales tax because we don't have that here in Oregon.

My Super Tenere was $13K OTD but by the time I added bags, skid plate, bigger windshield & deflectors, it was up to approx $14.5K. Even with heated grips it would be more than $5K less than the BMW. Then when you start adding farkles it gets worse - BMW tank bag = $300, Yamaha = $150. Don't get me started on the long term costs.

I loved my 2010 R1200RT but I wouldn't have wanted to own it out of warranty or gone too far off the beaten path. Much less all the scheduling just to get service done at a BMW dealer. I think the S10 really hits the sweet spot on price/performance/capability/reliability, at least here in the US.

 

[Dallara]

You CAN make a list of all the issues that a Tenere has, just as you could for any bike. But the Tenere list borders on "petty".

Seriously. It's crazy how this bike, after thousands and thousands of miles racked up world wide, is still short a few horror stories. And it has been bashed around and mistreated enough to expose a general weakness.

I've never seen anything like it in my lifetime.

I've been riding, racing, and wrenching motorsicles for over 40 years... Was a line mechanic for a lot of that, a motorcycle dealer for 11 years, and around car dealerships longer than that... And I've never seen anything like it either. Given normal statistical deviation you'd almost have to call the Super Tenere failure-free - worldwide.

Try saying that about a BMW - *ANY* BMW - without laughing...

Not sure where you get a delta of $3500 when comparing the GS to the Tenere here in the USA. When I was looking at new GS's last year it was going to be $20K OTD with the BMW bags, a skid plate, heated grips, ABS, etc. Not fully loaded. And not including sales tax because we don't have that here in Oregon.

My Super Tenere was $13K OTD but by the time I added bags, skid plate, bigger windshield & deflectors, it was up to approx $14.5K. Even with heated grips it would be more than $5K less than the BMW. Then when you start adding farkles it gets worse - BMW tank bag = $300, Yamaha = $150. Don't get me started on the long term costs.

I loved my 2010 R1200RT but I wouldn't have wanted to own it out of warranty or gone too far off the beaten path. Much less all the scheduling just to get service done at a BMW dealer. I think the S10 really hits the sweet spot on price/performance/capability/reliability, at least here in the US.

Mark's penchant for creative exaggeration is nothing new... Outlandish embellishment almost his trademark. He's got a talented flair for it.


Dallara



~

 

[autoteach]

There, autoteach... I fixed it for ya'!

Dallara


~

I thought it might diminish my "argument" if i added that, so I left it out. I figured that someone would chime in that it isn't a problem, to which I would be fine. The other way around just frustrates me. BTW, on about my 10th hard start with my 2008 subaru. Keep giving it throttle and it keeps starting.

 

[John D]

Well, one thing I will add to this thread. I read alot more entries about BMW owners replacing their GS's with Super Tenere's , than the other way around. . . Yamaha must be doing something right ::008:: ::022::

 

[markjenn]

So you're totally unsubstantiated conclusion is that BMW sells more than 30,000 R1200G/S's worldwide while Yamaha is selling less than 3,000 Super Tenere's? :-\

The 30K figure is well substantiated. For example:

http://bmwmcmag.com/2012/01/r1200gs-is-again-the-best-selling-bmw-worldwide/

As I said in my original post, I was guessing what S10 sales are, but there have been other threads on this where various pieces of information have been pieced together to indicate the number is probably a few thousand since introduction. From this, you can back out yearly sales and I think 3K/year worldwide is probably optimistic. And whether it is 2K or 5K doesn't materially change the conclusion that the GS is vastly outselling the S10 and the introduction of a new model is likely to make it moreso.

Believe what you want.

- Mark

 

[markjenn]

Not sure where you get a delta of $3500 when comparing the GS to the Tenere here in the USA.

Other threads have gone through the details of the computation, but it is basically correct if you comparably-equip the same models and use list prices. I don't feel like doing it again. This may, of course, differ from what you're able to negotiate and/or what the difference will be with various OEM and aftermarket accessories.

- Mark

 

[GrahamD]

They do not seem to know about this yet but a quick look at the competition for this season tells me otherwise.

Just been reading about the new kids on the block in Ride Magazine, ....

It seems few UK owners have bought brand new without big discounts and most Tenere's end up being sold as Ex-Demo's as Yamaha seem to have struggled to offload them at the rather high new price, the competition is tough and generally either much cheaper, or much more exotic.

As far as I can see from a distance, the UK is not really what the S10 is about. What YAMAHA need is an S10 with a different focus for the well paved, twisty sectioned, mud and slop off road UK. If you want to get the British press all revved up you put the priority on broad torque, HP, quick handling and preferably British sourced.

The high sales of the BMW are not really about the BMW, they are about the "exposure" and demographics and reputation, which in the eyes of magazine readers is superb.

So YAMAHA has to come up with a variant that fits the spec sheet stuff and the press biases and has more gadgets that no one really needs.

So yeah go for the 150HP at 8K. The motor may blow smoke at 100,000Km but the well healed will trade it in in 3 years.
Go for the 12.5:1 compression to get that torque up.
Make the chassis a bit twisty and flexy and get the weight down. 90% of people don't do much off road anyway.
Get the steering sharpened up. 90% of riders just like the thought of the big adventure in Morocco but never do it.
7 way adjustable everything bla bla bla

OR they can do what Suzuki, Kawasaki etc has done and just hold the price and keep making refinements. In 10 years the price will seem stupid cheap.

Maybe a bit of both would be good. The S10 classic and the S10 Euro. (Spec sheet special)

I think YAMAHA spent too much time designing a proper RTW bike and not enough time looking at just what the press and casual observer think are important.
It's an honest bike in my opinion but polished bits, buttons and HP figures tend to be the things that sell.

It was the same in the HiFi industry, the same in the computer industry and the same here.

Having said all that though it is the bike that suits me best amongst them all and in Australia it is doing OK.

But here is the thing. In OZ it is the second best selling 1200cc adv bike. Different priorities here.

Honda and Tiger 1200's are not doing that well. The smaller ADV bikes are the ones expanding the market. 650cc singles (KLR, DR) and the GleeStrom are the big things.

Biggest selling bike ATM is a Ninja 300. All the top selling bikes are 300cc or under. AND most importantly the average rider age is dropping ::008::

 

[Swagger]

..... AND most importantly the average rider age is dropping ....

Fantastic ... I'm getting younger by the day ::015:: I feel better already. ::008::

 

[CraigM]

I appreciate its all relative, but I was comparing the price of an S10 in Thailand while I was on holiday. At an average exchange rate its over £18k!! So I think pricing is a problem but if you think about how much technology and engineering you get for your money these days compared to a little DT50 I learnt to ride on nearly 30 years ago its inevitable that prices are much higher.

What I do find highly frustrating to the point that I sometimes want to cancel my magazine subscriptions (but never do...) is how the UK press just don't seem to have anything good to say about Yamaha in general (other than the little 125cc's). On the launch of the new BMW in South Africa, they say they had 3 occurrences of having major 'tank slapper' incidents which had been seemingly totally unexplained. Yet even with this they still rate the bike as 4 out of 5 and the Yamaha still sits with a 3 and the comment that it doesn't have the character that the BMW has..... not so sure that's the kind of character Id want engineered into my bike!! ::009:: Without wanting to seem too cynical I suspect it has something to appeal to as much readership as possible.... ::007::

 

[Rasher]

I don't think the issue is where the bike sits in the UK, and I reckon a TDM1200 with the Tenere lump tuned for another 20BHP and 1000RPM would probably sit better - but surely this is a concept crying out for the new triple motor :question:

The BMW will sell on the perception of quaility and the "Kool Aid" factor - and I am not taking the piss, lots of people love the badge, just like Harley riders do, fair play if it makes you happy. The Yamaha could be sold at a tenner (£10) and some folk would still rather pay £12k for the GS, just as most Harley riders would not buy an R1 even if it was a tenner.

Perhaps Yamaha think they still make more money selling very few bikes at £12k than they would if they dropped to a more reasonable £10.5k especially if it means they need to sell four times as many at that lower price point, and even at £11k I doubt they would do more than double the sales, I reckon at £10k they would sell much better ($16,000, so not impossible if they wanted to get them moving)

I don't think adding power is the answer, as to get it up to the heady figures of some of the competition would ruin some of the appeal., another 10 BHP and removal of 1st - 3rd restrictions maybe, but not much more, price is still the big issue in the UK. I think there is a new breed of ADV bikes with the Triumph, Honda, Ducati, Kawasaki and now KTM are all using superbike / sportsbike engines.

The Yamaha is really competing with the other bikes, the BMW seem to be sitting half way between a true dual purpose bike and the adv styled sportsbikes, but it don't matter as they will sell regardless with their own loyal fan base and marketing machine. But up against the Stelvio, Varedero and probably upcoming V-Strom 1,000 it ought to hold its own very well if priced properly.


In most other countries the Yamaha sits below the BMW / Triumph / KTM on price, and I think it needs to, OK it has a shaft drive, Traction Control and ABS, but so do the others, and the KTM has the huge performance figures to boost its ratings.

If Yamaha really want to keep the £12k price tag I think they should re-launch it with the full Worldcrosser kit, I would imagine to add this lot at the factory would only cost a few quid a unit, but to the punter this would make it look and feel like a £12k bike, or to drop the price to £11k (or less) and offer the WC kit at £1,000 at point of sale, a Tenere with heated grips and WC kit for the same price as the base GS would be a fair deal, especially as you need to spend another £1,000 to get the Traction and Grips on the GS. The KTM at £12.5k is one hell of a bike for the money, and again few people would look at the Yamaha unless it is a good £1500 cheaper.

The Yamaha is a fantastic, rugged and reliable machine capable of doing pretty much anything, and lasting for years to come, priced right I think it would do so much better, I bet some people really fancied this bike, but could not justify the price tag when something "more exotic" can be had for the same or less money.

Yamaha have spent the money developing it regardless of if they sell one more bike or another million, I think it would make more sense to price them correctly in all markets so at least those who do value the bikes benefits can justify the cost and go out and buy one.

 

[greg the pole]

there's no doubt that the bmw will allways outsell the othe bikes in the segment.
for starters..they got going back in the early 80's
Sure yamaha had a hit with the 750 tenere's but they were imported in very small numbers, and for a short time to NA
Image will allways outsell reliability, and longevity.
As someone mentioned here eariler, Bike UK barely mentions the ST, but the oil air cooled GS gets plenty of exposure.
they even have one for a long termer for Chippy Woods, it simply does not float their boat.

Back to the price difference. Can prices, back in 2011 I priced out a GS with ABS (nothing else) $22 OTD, an identical ST with more stuff...$17.5
Now if you go south of the border (1 day turnaround) you could save yourself a further $4 grand. I don't know about you, but for me it was an easy choice.
As i also mentioned in previous posts, my experience with the bmw dealers was not good, to them there was no equal to the gs, and all the other brands were shit, including the bike I was riding at the time...way to make a sale guys.
so bmw minuses for me: dealer approach to potential sale, service, and service cost/frequency, doubtful reliability, a 25% highher msrp over ST CDN price
pluses for bmw: ummm....more character? ridden a few and they are ok, not sure what the big deal is about
minues for the ST: errrmmm.. at the time of purchase I didn't know of any minuses, besides my local yamaha dealer telling me he cannot budge on the price, as these and I quote 'will sell like hot cakes, I can however give you a $300 discount on a $17 thousand dollar bike' ???
pluses for the ST: Paid $13.5 OTD (This included everything to get the bike registered and on the road in Canada, and all expenses incurred while doing the trip to the US)

So now, I have a great bike that afforded me to buy my required farkles including a high end rear shock, bags, skid plate, blah blah windscreen...rabble rabble..crash bars and several exhausts ::025::, for less than $16. oh and I got to keep my other two bikes, for less than the price of a new bare bones GS.

No brainer. Too bad not everyone is seeing the light. Again to each his own.