longride
New Member
Yamaha at the top and BMW at the bottom. Truth is reality. Again.
https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/makes-most-reliable-motorcycle-100025261.html
https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/makes-most-reliable-motorcycle-100025261.html
Yamaha near top of survey with BMW near bottom
- Thread starter longride
- Start date
frez
New Member
A couple of points...
You are still more likely than not to be happy with any of them.
The stats are based on 4 years of ownership, most owners in the UK get them on a PCP contract where they have them for 3 years and then chop them in for a new one. Even more would be happy over just 3 years.
I wouldn't trade my S10 for any BMW, the reliability would put me off, but more so, the shit customer service I received whilst I owned my last BMW made me swear never to have a BMW darken my door again.
You are still more likely than not to be happy with any of them.
The stats are based on 4 years of ownership, most owners in the UK get them on a PCP contract where they have them for 3 years and then chop them in for a new one. Even more would be happy over just 3 years.
I wouldn't trade my S10 for any BMW, the reliability would put me off, but more so, the shit customer service I received whilst I owned my last BMW made me swear never to have a BMW darken my door again.
GearheadGrrrl
Active Member
Thanks to the good statisticians at CR:
Ratings Overview
Brand Reliability
More than 11,000 riders sound off on over 12,300 motorcycles
Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda and Kawasaki are among the more reliable motorcycle brands. Conversely, Triumph, Ducati, BMW and Can-Am are among the more repair-prone brands. That's what we found based on the feedback of more than 11,000 subscribers reporting on over 12,300 motorcycles purchased new between 2008 and 2014. The graph shows the percentage of motorcycles from each brand that we predict will need a repair by the fourth year of ownership. Our statistical model estimates failure rates for 4-year-old motorcycles not covered by a service contract and adjusts for mileage driven over a 12-month period. The mean annual mileage is around 3,800 among all motorcycles included in this analysis. Differences of fewer than 10 points between brands are not meaningful. Note that models within a brand may vary, and design or manufacture changes may affect future reliability. Still, choosing a brand with a good repair estimate can improve your odds of getting a reliable motorcycle.
Brand Repairs and Serious Problems
Motorcycles
0% 5% 10% 15% 20% 25% 30% 35% 40% 45% 50%
Yamaha
11
Suzuki
12
Honda
12
Kawasaki
15
Victory
17
Harley-Davidson
26
Triumph
29
Ducati
33
BMW
40
Can-Am
42
Discussed on my blog too: http://gearheadgrrrl.com/2015/04/07/consumer-reports-shines-its-spotlight-on-two-wheelers-again/
Be gentle with the BMW cultists for a while, they're gonna be kinda tender...
Ratings Overview
Brand Reliability
More than 11,000 riders sound off on over 12,300 motorcycles
Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda and Kawasaki are among the more reliable motorcycle brands. Conversely, Triumph, Ducati, BMW and Can-Am are among the more repair-prone brands. That's what we found based on the feedback of more than 11,000 subscribers reporting on over 12,300 motorcycles purchased new between 2008 and 2014. The graph shows the percentage of motorcycles from each brand that we predict will need a repair by the fourth year of ownership. Our statistical model estimates failure rates for 4-year-old motorcycles not covered by a service contract and adjusts for mileage driven over a 12-month period. The mean annual mileage is around 3,800 among all motorcycles included in this analysis. Differences of fewer than 10 points between brands are not meaningful. Note that models within a brand may vary, and design or manufacture changes may affect future reliability. Still, choosing a brand with a good repair estimate can improve your odds of getting a reliable motorcycle.
Brand Repairs and Serious Problems
Motorcycles
0% 5% 10% 15% 20% 25% 30% 35% 40% 45% 50%
Yamaha
11
Suzuki
12
Honda
12
Kawasaki
15
Victory
17
Harley-Davidson
26
Triumph
29
Ducati
33
BMW
40
Can-Am
42
Discussed on my blog too: http://gearheadgrrrl.com/2015/04/07/consumer-reports-shines-its-spotlight-on-two-wheelers-again/
Be gentle with the BMW cultists for a while, they're gonna be kinda tender...
Tyke
New Member
frez said:
::026:: ..having owned a brand new K 1300 GT EE BMW (2010) which was riddled with electrical faults, which resulted in it cutting out and falling over mid junction :exclaim: plus it drank oil and had one of the worst gearboxes on any bike I have owned (and believe me there have been many), the dealer service was nothing short of abysmal and the only way I could get rid of it to a dealer was to p/x it for a nearly new GSA, which was just as bad, I won'r bore you with the details, it'd simply take too long :exclaim:
S10 is light years better than either of the Beemers I owned ::012::
Mark R.
Member
::017::
TalonMech
New Member
I had a 2004 R1100S, but unlike most of the horror stories I've read on this and the ADVrider forums, mine never missed a beat. It was one of the best bikes I've ever owned. Till I went into a 15 mph curve in NW Arkansas way too fast and tossed it into a ravine. It was totaled of course, as it smacked a tree or 2 on its way to the bottom. It was a nice bike though.
GearheadGrrrl
Active Member
My most recent bike purchase before the Super Tenere was a BMW F800S with the CanAm (Rotax) power train. Given that CanAm scored even lower (dead last) than BMW, you'd think it'd be a total lemon... But at 72k miles the only major failure was an alternator stator. Perhaps Rotax engines are very reliable, and the rest of the bike let the CanAms down?
The only bike that ever left me stranded was a '06 Yamaha FJR when the ring antenna failed and the bike wouldn't start. I was travelling, 800 miles from home, and there were no replacements parts available in the country. It took was 3 days for Yamaha Customer Support give approval to the dealer to swap out an ignition switch from a bike on the show room floor. Three months later Yamaha issues a recall on the ignition switch and I was able to get reimburse for the cost of parts and labor but mot for 3 days living expense.
My BMW's have never left me stranded.
I don't worry about reviews, reports, or the opinion of others. I ride the one that makes me smile. ::021::
Paul
My BMW's have never left me stranded.
I don't worry about reviews, reports, or the opinion of others. I ride the one that makes me smile. ::021::
Paul
Koinz
Active Member
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
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I think the key is the year range of sample bikes (2008-2014). My 03 R1200clc did not have any problems in 63k miles, but I see quite a few issues with the newer bmw's. They seem to be mostly design issues of components thar should never give issues. Still great bikes, but for the premium price I would expect rock solid reliability.
I think the key here is to just accept the fact that this is only one of many surveys over many different years that have shown that some manufacturers have Q&A issues. That's just the way it is. It also says that 6 out of 10 of your anecdotal mates won't have problems or 6 out of ten people you bump into at parties won't have problems with their can-am or BMW or Harley or whatever. I am sure that if you just spent big bucks on a bike that you will find that one guy out of 10 that had a YAMAHA grenade on them.
Doesn't mean that the riding experience between failures is bad, just means that you have a higher chance of selling the bike before the warranty runs out.
I ride with a BMW guy a lot and he loves the anecdotal things about KTM's falling apart. I notice that KTM is missing again from this survey.
There are two people at work that have both a KTM and a BMW, Both have had what would be called medium issues in within 5 years. One BMW F800GS with a fried alternator for no apparent reason ($1300 bucks thanks) and the KTM with a known cam issue. ($450 in parts thanks) My friend with the BMW has a spare BMW out the back under a tarp he bought cheap.
My mechanic owns Japanese bikes. The only ones he doesn't ride much are the 70's Katana and the 70's CB750.
I knew a few old geezers on old BMW's that had lots of miles. They do mention eventually that it was easy to get parts to rebuild them and they went for 100,000 miles between rebuilds with only little problems to do with carbs etc. That was back when BMW made one boxer platform and that was it.
The state police force now ride YAMAHA FJR's and I had a $250.00 discussion with a nice officer on the side of the road one day talking bout his "crap" R1200RTP and that they were going to dump them soon. Too many off the road too often and the spare oil he had to carry.
Bumped into guy at a motel on a ride once. He had one of these that was dirty rusty and still motoring along at 350,00km with only 1 rebuild.
An affordable 900cc HP2 would probably be a nice thing. I wish BMW would make a bare bones 900cc boxer again. Do a Harley and do a bit of nostalgia retro for the Hipsters. A Deus Ex ADV Boxer with a better seat.
So that's my anecdotes for you.
Doesn't mean that the riding experience between failures is bad, just means that you have a higher chance of selling the bike before the warranty runs out.
I ride with a BMW guy a lot and he loves the anecdotal things about KTM's falling apart. I notice that KTM is missing again from this survey.
There are two people at work that have both a KTM and a BMW, Both have had what would be called medium issues in within 5 years. One BMW F800GS with a fried alternator for no apparent reason ($1300 bucks thanks) and the KTM with a known cam issue. ($450 in parts thanks) My friend with the BMW has a spare BMW out the back under a tarp he bought cheap.
My mechanic owns Japanese bikes. The only ones he doesn't ride much are the 70's Katana and the 70's CB750.
I knew a few old geezers on old BMW's that had lots of miles. They do mention eventually that it was easy to get parts to rebuild them and they went for 100,000 miles between rebuilds with only little problems to do with carbs etc. That was back when BMW made one boxer platform and that was it.
The state police force now ride YAMAHA FJR's and I had a $250.00 discussion with a nice officer on the side of the road one day talking bout his "crap" R1200RTP and that they were going to dump them soon. Too many off the road too often and the spare oil he had to carry.
Bumped into guy at a motel on a ride once. He had one of these that was dirty rusty and still motoring along at 350,00km with only 1 rebuild.
An affordable 900cc HP2 would probably be a nice thing. I wish BMW would make a bare bones 900cc boxer again. Do a Harley and do a bit of nostalgia retro for the Hipsters. A Deus Ex ADV Boxer with a better seat.
So that's my anecdotes for you.
Ryan G.
I ride for pie
It shouldn't be politically incorrect to note negativity about a BMW here. After all, it is a TENERE FORUM ! Who could actually be surprised by the reliability statistics?
yz454
Member
Like I said the euros attitude has never changed, I do no evil, I see no evil, I hear no evil, And I speak no evil . With the Japs you know what you get , maybe not the top components , but they run .
Magdump
Member
Actually, I have BMW to thank for my S10!
One day I saw a pimped out GSA parked where I park my 2 mile trip commuter bike (WR250r) for work and I just fell in love!!! The GSA is just damn awesome looking!
So I started researching purchasing a GSA for myself. I was gonna be into it for about $36k all farkled up and I was gonna do it! Then my research indicated how bad current production BMWs can be, here is an example: (http://www.affordablebeemerservices.com/bmwthoughts/)
My research then led me to the S10 being the best option for reliability and I really liked the way it looked too.
Bottom line, if BMW built better bikes I would be on one. Until then, I will be S10 boy!
One day I saw a pimped out GSA parked where I park my 2 mile trip commuter bike (WR250r) for work and I just fell in love!!! The GSA is just damn awesome looking!
So I started researching purchasing a GSA for myself. I was gonna be into it for about $36k all farkled up and I was gonna do it! Then my research indicated how bad current production BMWs can be, here is an example: (http://www.affordablebeemerservices.com/bmwthoughts/)
My research then led me to the S10 being the best option for reliability and I really liked the way it looked too.
Bottom line, if BMW built better bikes I would be on one. Until then, I will be S10 boy!
It seems BMW is making a major effort to clean up it's act. There's been a rash of recent recalls on issues that have plagued the marque for years, they've extended the warranty to 12 yrs. on the poorly designed fuel strips, and their reaction to the recent RT issue was timely and fair to those that owned an RT. Perhaps the Consumer Reports Survey woke the German giant! When I felt the user beta testing on the 1200 LC's it was out with the '12 ST at 27K miles, and in with a '15 GSA. After 6500 mile nothing has failed yet! ::012::yz454 said:
I suspect a few here would like to see a recall by Yamaha on the CCTs.
Truth is..... none of them are perfect, just ride the one that makes ya smile the most and...... ::021::
Paul
I'm going to add something hopeful but am doing it with hesitation.
What I will add in the hopeful vein is that with the Beemer response to the RT shock problems and total redesign of the LC rear ends, it does appear that the customers have gotten to BMW. While the jury is still out, if this is true, it's good news for those who buy BMW products or even [full disclosure] rent them like I do.
The hesitation is that I hope our own membership can stay objective. The survey period includes the years in which BMW products had a series of problems. Longride and Gearheadgrrrl were right in that BMW deserved criticism for the problem years, and I only know a couple of BMW apologists who would argue them when it comes to those problems. The point is that if BMW has turned a corner, let's keep this fair and factual, because competition improves everybody, including Yamaha.
I had a boss who would say, "I don't give a tinkers damn about what you did yesterday right or wrong. What'd you do for me today?"
What I will add in the hopeful vein is that with the Beemer response to the RT shock problems and total redesign of the LC rear ends, it does appear that the customers have gotten to BMW. While the jury is still out, if this is true, it's good news for those who buy BMW products or even [full disclosure] rent them like I do.
The hesitation is that I hope our own membership can stay objective. The survey period includes the years in which BMW products had a series of problems. Longride and Gearheadgrrrl were right in that BMW deserved criticism for the problem years, and I only know a couple of BMW apologists who would argue them when it comes to those problems. The point is that if BMW has turned a corner, let's keep this fair and factual, because competition improves everybody, including Yamaha.
I had a boss who would say, "I don't give a tinkers damn about what you did yesterday right or wrong. What'd you do for me today?"
I noticed that the car division has improved for 2014. So maybe the word was getting out..
They still have a way to go to catch Hyundai though but they are close to Kia.. and lucky they count MINI as a different brand.::024::
Looks like Tata kicked some Jaguar managers butt recently as well.
They still have a way to go to catch Hyundai though but they are close to Kia.. and lucky they count MINI as a different brand.::024::
Looks like Tata kicked some Jaguar managers butt recently as well.
frez
New Member
I hope they do clean up their act. It's nice for everyone to have options and for the competition to mean manufacturers have to invest for the future.
Personally I swore another BMW would never darken my door due to the bad customer service I experienced whilst owning one. The recent reliability issues would certainly give me pause if that wasn't the case.
Personally I swore another BMW would never darken my door due to the bad customer service I experienced whilst owning one. The recent reliability issues would certainly give me pause if that wasn't the case.
Graham, I'm with you in wishing that BMW (or someone) would come up with a light, simple, powerful (enough) bike in the vein of the R80/GS. What's not to like about a 400lb, 50hp (ok make the new one 60, that'd be alright) bike that's reliable and easy to work on. I did over 100,000 miles on mine, and while it did have some issues, a lot of those could be fixed with better designs, and modern materials and manufacturing (worn rocker gear, and gearboxes, for example). Add FI and some other modern tweaks, while keeping it simple, how hard could that be?
frez
New Member
Any of these float your boat?
tr650
dr650
650 enduro r
xt660
klr650
tr650
dr650
650 enduro r
xt660
klr650