Yamaha boxes

[doodlebug]

Sorry if this has been asked before, when I bought my bike I got the Yamaha panniers and top box fitted, haven't had any problems with them and find them pretty much fit for purpose, I've just read that you shouldn't ride with back box and panniers fitted together at the same time https://www.shopyamaha.com/product/details/super-ténéré-top-case?b=Adventure+Touring+Accessories&d=44&f=2017|196 this doesn't make any sense, I've been riding with them on and a pillion without any problems, they even, on the Yamaha web site show it being ridden with all boxes in situ, can anyone shed any light as to why this is a recommendation, how much weight do they really expect you to carry in the back box?

 

[EricV]

Yamaha said the same thing about the FJR, don't ride it with all three boxes on. It's a Liability issue. Solo rider, with all three boxes will leave a gap in between the rider and the top box that can cause a high speed weave. High speed meaning 80+ in most cases, so not really a factor for 90% of riders. Add a pillion, no weave because there is no gap between the rider and top box.

As to weight, Yamaha recommends a paltry 11 lbs or something like that, same as the load rating for the rack it's bolted to. Use some common sense and don't put a bag of cement in the top box. Check the mounting points now and then for any cracking. As long as you don't overload the top box, you'll likely be fine. Use it for lighter items like clothes and keep the case of beer in the pannier.

 

[Sierra1]

EricV is right. It's an aerodynamic issue. Back when the Honda ST was starting to be used heavily by law enforcement (LE), testing revealed a high speed, 120 m.p.h. plus, wobble. The wobble resulted in an officer in England being killed in a crash. Honda's answer was to limit all LE STs to a 120 m.p.h. top speed. It was later found/suspected that the horizontal message boards mounted to the rear of the bikes, caused the rear to lift at speed. If you have all three boxes on the Tenere, and you're worried, put a sleeping bag on as a pillion. Eliminates the gap. ::001::

 

[WJBertrand]

I had this exact experience with my ST1300. I could feel the effect of top box as soon as it was mounted and at much lower speeds. Not a dangerous instability, just less planted feeling. As Sierra1 mentioned, just placing a duffle or sleeping bag on the pillion, completely eliminated it.
I have not noticed this effect with the top box mounted on my Ténéré, at least up to about 100 MPH. It seems inherently more stable.


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[TwinsFTW]

Interesting. I didn't catch that, and certainly haven't noticed anything myself. Then again I don't typically ride at speeds that high. I have taken to always running all of the cases, though, with the top usually empty so I can stash my helmet (et al) at a stop if I'm going to be there a while. (Side cases are always at least partially full with extra gear, raingear, tools, etc.)

This is also my first time with a top box, so I don't have any real basis of comparison for the effect - with my other bikes, I always used a tail bag or dry duffel over the pillion.

 

[doodlebug]

Thanks for the advice guys, Like I said I haven't noticed any problems so didn't really understand the reasons behind the recommendation, I only usually carry light stuff in the back box, its more or less there for my wife to lean against, I read some negative stuff relating to the Yamaha boxes, mainly the locks sticking, I haven't had any issues though, I've found them really good and easy to use.

 

[tomatocity]

Thanks for the advice guys, Like I said I haven't noticed any problems so didn't really understand the reasons behind the recommendation, I only usually carry light stuff in the back box, its more or less there for my wife to lean against, I read some negative stuff relating to the Yamaha boxes, mainly the locks sticking, I haven't had any issues though, I've found them really good and easy to use.

Good to hear Bug. Sounds like you follow the rules of common sense when operating the Yamaha luggage.
- Installing the locks... use Blue Loctite.
- Closing the Lid... lightly press down on the Lid when rotating the lock.
- Opening the Lid... lightly press down on the Lid when rotating the lock.
- Need the Lid to lean more open... relocate one end of the the plastic cables. A screwdriver and fine point awl works for me.
- Occasionally clean and maybe lubricate the lock. I use water and compressed air.

 

[Sierra1]

AND, you can put an entire case (24 12oz cans) of "liquid refreshment" in each side box without taking them out of the cardboard. The mighty Gold Wing can not make that statement. My buddy has to bungee his cases to his seat. Of course he has more total volume. Just shaped different.

 

[Checkswrecks]

The Honda ST1300 was known to have an aero issue and of course the basics are different for every rider, luggage combo, weight distribution, tire pressures, etc.


For me with mine, I had the 2012 Tenere with the Givi 52L Maxxia at more than 120 mph and the 2014 with the square Holan (similar to the Yamaha top box) at over 100 more than once. Both were occasionally loaded with drinks weighing much more weight than posted too. Never a problem on either bike but I also got to those speeds in steps.


If you want to try a test with a load in your box(es), try increasing speed in 5 mph increments. At each step, very loosely hold/guard the bar with one hand a give it a steering bump with the other. If it wobbles at all, reduce speed.

 

[BravoBravo]

I have aftermarket side cases and a factory top box on my Super Tenere. I consistently ride with all of them attached, and have had no issues over the past four years. As others have suggested, I never put anything heavy in the top box.

 

[Sierra1]

The Honda ST1300 was known to have an aero issue and of course the basics are different for every rider, luggage combo, weight distribution, tire pressures, etc.

I was always told that weight played a huge part in stability. I tend to disagree; I think the aero is a bigger factor. My bags were not anywhere near equally loaded. Even if there was a 20lb difference between left & right bags, that's only 2% of the combined weight of bike & rider. BUT, my tires were ALWAYS verified to be at the specified pressure. The first time over 100mph was done in 5mph steps. Stable as a rock....all the way to 120mph....where it promptly shut the fuel pump off. Came as quite the surprise the first time. The tricky part was to keep it at 119.5mph. But you're right, there are many variables at play on a bike.

 

[Madhatter]

Lawyers ( 'cause people have no common sense )

 

[WJBertrand]

I was always told that weight played a huge part in stability. I tend to disagree; I think the aero is a bigger factor. My bags were not anywhere near equally loaded. Even if there was a 20lb difference between left & right bags, that's only 2% of the combined weight of bike & rider. BUT, my tires were ALWAYS verified to be at the specified pressure. The first time over 100mph was done in 5mph steps. Stable as a rock....all the way to 120mph....where it promptly shut the fuel pump off. Came as quite the surprise the first time. The tricky part was to keep it at 119.5mph. But you're right, there are many variables at play on a bike.

I wonder if you have a police model ST1300? My '95 civi model will hit close to 140 MPH where it seems to just run out of steam. I don't feel any deliberate power cuts or anything. I doubt that what you're feeling is the fuel pump cut off. Doing that would create a dangerously lean condition that could damage the engine.

 

[Sierra1]

Yes, it was a ST1300PA. I "assumed" it was a fuel system shut off, but I don't know. As soon as the speed drops below 120, the motor is right back on, pulling like a freight train. Our cars were the same way. Many cars have limiters due to OE tire speed ratings. The ST definitely had the engine to go faster. I would have estimated at 150ish. But, my FJ runs out of speed, inexplicably, at 155ish. I'm pretty sure in the FJ's case it's gear limitations; may be the same for the ST. ::26::

 

[WJBertrand]

Honda put a top speed limiter on the police models due to instability problems caused by some of the equipment some departments install.


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[Sierra1]

Honda put a top speed limiter on the police models due to instability problems caused by some of the equipment some departments install.

Yes. It was believed that the horizontal message board, commonly used in the UK, mounted on the back of the bike caused enough turbulence/lift to interfere with rear wheel traction/stability.