wobbling during breaking slow speed

EricV

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Thank you all for your suggestions. It has been a lot of help. I will get a new tire online, install it and let you know if that fixed the problem.
Regards
Gino
Hold on, no need for a new tire just yet! Your issue is in gentle stopping from 10 mph. That's not something that needs to be addressed. Tires wear, cupping happens to most tires over time to varying degrees. You're describing a normal condition, just that was curious to you, not a problem that requires attention.
 

Kurgan

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I had similar braking issues on my old Vstrom 1000, a direct result of a cupped front tire. Speaking with a rep at Michelin, they shared that based on my weight (290 geared up) I needed to run higher tire pressure, beyond what the owners manual called for. They recommended 38 front / 40 rear as a starting point. With a new front tire and running their recommended pressure I had zero cupping issues and braking issues. The next set I installed were Bridgestone Battlewings, the E spec version that came on the Super Tenere. I called Bridgestone and they gave me the same advice - run the higher pressures.

Pic of the cupped Michelin Anakee 2 on my old Vstrom 1000

Anakee pic 2.jpg
 

Sierra1

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Now, that's cupping. But, it still wont cause any problems. It's only felt at the slower speeds, and isn't on the part of the tread that's used while leaned over. I haven't cupped on the Tenere, but, regardless of pressure, the tires on the RT & ST would get cupped. To be expected though.
 

Gato10

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I checked the tire closely and I can see bumps and valleys due to uneven wear. Great comments guys!
I am wondering if that is what is giving certain sensation of instability when turning. I thought it was just me driving a bike that it is just too big for me.
 

jeckyll

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I checked the tire closely and I can see bumps and valleys due to uneven wear. Great comments guys!
I am wondering if that is what is giving certain sensation of instability when turning. I thought it was just me driving a bike that it is just too big for me.
Best way to check it is to run your hand one way, then the other. If it feels noticeably different, there you go. Generally, that type of wear is caused by heavy braking with tire pressures that allow the tire to deform, so a compressed tire will wear so small 'ridges' appear on the leading edge.

I've seen it more on knobby tires, but either way it hasn't caused any issues.

More importantly: One of my 'rules' is "Never ride a tire you don't trust". The last thing you need is to worry about the tire, maybe not brake as hard when it is needed or react poorly because you have a tire worry. If it's on your mind, change it! Life is much too short to ride on rubber you don't trust. Generally the tire / bike / equipment can do much more than you think, as long as you trust it :)

Just my $0.02

Good luck!
 

ballisticexchris

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Hold on, no need for a new tire just yet! Your issue is in gentle stopping from 10 mph. That's not something that needs to be addressed. Tires wear, cupping happens to most tires over time to varying degrees. You're describing a normal condition, just that was curious to you, not a problem that requires attention.
Now, that's cupping. But, it still wont cause any problems. It's only felt at the slower speeds, and isn't on the part of the tread that's used while leaned over. I haven't cupped on the Tenere, but, regardless of pressure, the tires on the RT & ST would get cupped. To be expected though.
Oops, I just looked at my service schedule and my OEM tires were swapped to my Anakee Wilds at just under 3100 miles. No cupping. I had no idea that cupping was part of normal tire wear. The Super Tenere is the heaviest I've owned. I'm running my normal 32f/36r pressure. In my defense I have never experienced tire cupping before on a motorcycle. I still have a lot to learn on these big bikes. My last post was deleted due to misinformation. All these years of riding and I assumed cupping was due to under-inflation.

I checked the tire closely and I can see bumps and valleys due to uneven wear. Great comments guys!
I am wondering if that is what is giving certain sensation of instability when turning. I thought it was just me driving a bike that it is just too big for me.
I know that I still struggle at slow speeds on mine. I find if I'm standing like on my dirt bikes it's a lot easier to control at crawling pace.
 

jeckyll

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@ballisticexchris I find that even on my sportbikes, there is some cupping when you work the brakes hard on corner entry. I've had it on both sport touring and sport tires, to varying degrees. On a 50/50 tire, like the Shinko 244 which I ran a lot on my KLR, it would look comically bad. But the tire still performed fine (even on road trips, running it hard on the road with luggage on).

I wouldn't do a hard track day on a cupped tire, but only because I think it would be in my mind that the tire had been heat cycled a lot and may not be giving me the same grip as a newer tire, not due to actual observed issues.

:)
 

Sierra1

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. . . . I am wondering if that is what is giving certain sensation of instability when turning. I thought it was just me driving a bike that it is just too big for me.
Not necessarily. You've only put 1K miles on her so far. You're still in your break-in period. The more time in her saddle, the smoother you'll get. You also don't know the inflation, riding style in those first 5K miles. From what you've said, I believe you can run the manual recommended pressure (pg 9-2) of 33F/36R. That's good to 198lbs, and I don't think that you're braking real hard. . . . yet. Of course the manual was written for the OE Bridgestones. If you switch to another tire, you might want to contact the manufacturer, like Kurgan, and see what pressure(s) they recommend.


. . . . All these years of riding and I assumed cupping was due to under-inflation. . . .
Well, it is. . . . sort of. It's under inflation for how you're riding, and/or the weight you're carrying. Like Kurgan said, he had to inflate over what the manual recommended, due to his (our) weight. That being said, there comes a point that cupping may occur regardless. I guess you could inflate to a point that cupping would stop. . . . but, that would likely cause other problems.
 

jeckyll

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<snip>


Well, it is. . . . sort of. It's under inflation for how you're riding, and/or the weight you're carrying. Like Kurgan said, he had to inflate over what the manual recommended, due to his (our) weight. That being said, there comes a point that cupping may occur regardless. I guess you could inflate to a point that cupping would stop. . . . but, that would likely cause other problems.
Agree totally.

The point of braking smoothly of course is to load the front suspension (including tire) and create a larger contact patch (i.e. squish the front tire a bit) to get maximum braking traction. My understanding is that the deformation of the tire will also contribute to cupping. But that's not bad, unless there is too much 'squishing' of the tire.

If the front tire is inflated too much, loading the front will not create the same size contact patch, and, all other things being equal, will cause you to have longer braking distances (vs. a properly inflated tire). Either from ABS kicking in or having to ease off the brake to prevent a slide / washing out the front end.
 

Squibb

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If this behaviour is cupping you will hear the front tyre 'sing' as you corner. Frankly you tyre doesn't look too bad to me - my front is at 10k miles & whilst it is a little noisy in the bends due to cupping, the bike is perfectly stable on the brakes even when ABS is actuated.

The brake rotors are extremely difficult to check for warping, given they are floating discs, but sometimes an inspection of the disc surface will reveal dark areas or even bluing if the rotor has overheated. In the UK, we have brake testing regime as part of an annual inspection known as an MOT, where the bike can be run on a brake testing roller - this measures efficiency & shows up any pulsing caused by a warped disc. Such things are rare in the US but TBH I am not sure where you are based??

The bike is young, so I concede than warping would seem unusual, but there are many ways it can occur, from downhill mountain rides causing overheating to minor accidents or just careless transportation even. Sometimes, when bikes are taken off the road over winter, the bobbins can corrode, or a caliper piston stick which will also create a strange feel.

Maybe you can you give us a little more feed on the bike's history & service record.
 

EricV

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Let's keep in mind that the OP has only had the bike for 1000 miles and it came to him used with 5k on it.

And some tread designs just 'walk' at very low speeds too, especially when new. That's not a problem.
 

jeckyll

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Let's keep in mind that the OP has only had the bike for 1000 miles and it came to him used with 5k on it.

And some tread designs just 'walk' at very low speeds too, especially when new. That's not a problem.
True. I found the Tractionator GPS and E07+ both had a slow speed 'shimmy', though at slightly different speeds (and those were rears, but the point remains :) )
 

Gato10

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Hi everybody.

It is very nice to see several the answers from several members willing to help with their suggestions. I already ordered a set of cheap Shinko 804/5 tires. They will get here in a couple of weeks.

My tire is not yet "singing" at the corners. I am located in Pennsylvania, USA. The MOT does not include that here. I also did some winter riding but I washed the bike after every ride. Discs, caliper s look fine.

It is also true that with 1 thousand miles, the bike is new to me. I need to do some more riding. So far I am not very confident when riding it. To be honest every now and then I feel scared as hell (I know, I am a chicken). I am coming from a DRZ400, so the Tenere feels like a little monster bike. I change the bike because I found myself riding a lot before getting to the dirt roads I wanted to go. The DRZ was not good on the highway, it was doable, but the vibration in my hands, the wind on my chest and the soreness on my butt tilted the balance towards another bike. In addition I felt the highway was a bit dangerous because I was not all the time able to keep up with cars. I had cars tailgating until they had a chance to overtake.
Initially I bought the Africa twin. I got half scammed over the bike in an authorized dealership (bought it as new bike to discover a few weeks later that I was the second owner!!!). I returned the bike and I got the ST. I fell in love with its looks. The breaking, acceleration, and clutch feel were SO much better than in the Africa twin (I cannot believe why I never see people commenting on these things vs AT). The center stand, cruise control were also a plus. It was also an inch shorter so it felt better for a shorter rider. Well... that is the story of my ST. Now I do not have any of the problems I had with the DRZ but on dirt I feel scared as hell. Falling with the DRZ was a simple process (haha), You fall, pick up the bike, and keep going. No drama lifting the bike, no broken bones, no broken parts, no expensive repairs. I do mostly solo ridings so all those are now considerations. My skills are bad for off road, so I stay on the gravel and poorly maintained dirt roads only. Hopefully time will get me some confidence while riding the bike. Maybe I just need to fall with the ST to experience that it is not the end of the world (as it is currently pictured in my mind).
Regards
 

Gato10

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Maybe you can you give us a little more feed on the bike's history & service record.

Nothing on paper. It just looked super clean, no scratches, nada. However, the sales man did not provide a record of service aside for a 4,000 miles oil change. I know, that was a bummer but my small brain decided that in 5,000 miles not too many bad things could go wrong if the bike looked cosmetically fine and drove nicely...I know you can blow an engine with the bike still looking and driving well.
 

jeckyll

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@Gato10 if the bike scares you, make sure you're riding it in 'T' mode (Touring) not Sport.

It's a big change from a DRZ400 to a SuperT. Getting a new set of tires will a good start, but the Super T will want to be ridden differently from the little DRZ. Try and make sure the suspension is setup for your weight.

Once you do take it offroad, make sure you are in TC2 or have TC off completely (I'd recommend TC2, it can spin the tires just fine for most things).

Good luck :)
 

Sierra1

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. . . . To be honest every now and then I feel scared as hell (I know, I am a chicken). I am coming from a DRZ400, so the Tenere feels like a little monster bike. . . .
I know the feeling. When I went from my Seca, to my FJ. . . . huge difference. Just take it easy/slow, and enjoy the big girl. There's no rush to become an expert dirt rider. There are some people that can throw the Tenere around like a 250cc dirt bike. . . . I will never be one. Mine will likely, always be a pavement princess. :)
 

Squibb

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Maybe you can you give us a little more feed on the bike's history & service record.

Nothing on paper. It just looked super clean, no scratches, nada. However, the sales man did not provide a record of service aside for a 4,000 miles oil change. I know, that was a bummer but my small brain decided that in 5,000 miles not too many bad things could go wrong if the bike looked cosmetically fine and drove nicely...I know you can blow an engine with the bike still looking and driving well.

All sounds good, but you don't mention the ABS - to save me running through the system in any detail, everything is explained in the Owner's Manual, which can be downloaded from Yamaha if you don't have it to hand.

Does the system function correctly? Warning lights, pulsing at the lever when braking heavily - I have known contamination of the ABS sensor/reluctor ring cause some strange symptoms, but these aren't visible on the Super10.

Otherwise I assume the front tyre is set correctly on the bead, the rim is running true when you spin the wheel & the spokes are all taught - they should have been checked for torque at service, but it is often forgotten.
 

Tenman

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I've got 11k on my front E07 dakar. I run 38 lbs. It shows no cupping. When I've run 35lbs they seem to cup on me. Low pressure is the enemy.
 

jeckyll

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I think it's important to repeat:

Having some cupping is not necessarily an indicator of low tire inflation. If heavy breaking, it is actually normal wear.

Source: Dunlop tires: https://www.dunlopmotorcycletires.com/about/faq/#faq-4 (underlining is mine :) )
You may not be able to entirely avoid cupping. Tire cupping or irregular wear is a somewhat common occurrence on all vehicles. On a four-wheel vehicle, you are advised to rotate your tires periodically to even out wear. Unfortunately, you do not have this luxury with a motorcycle because front and rear tires, unlike those on most four-wheel vehicles, are not interchangeable.

However, there are steps that can be taken to minimize cupping and uneven wear on a motorcycle: Maintain your motorcycle and particularly your front and suspension. Avoid hard braking whenever possible. Braking causes the tire to grab and wear in one direction. When braking is applied to the front tire, the load transfer over-flexes the tire and increases the tendency for cupping and uneven wear. Maintain your tire pressures. Under inflation and overloading of motorcycle tires are significant causes of cupping and uneven wear, particularly in association with hard braking and/or trailer use.

Once a tire begins to show signs of uneven wear, even following these steps may not improve the condition.

Tire companies can, and are, helping to minimize cupping and uneven wear but you, the rider, must do your part. Following the aforementioned guidelines will help avoid uneven wear.
Aside: I think it's hilarious that Dunlop tells you to avoid hard braking whenever possible ;)
 

HeliMark

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I also did some winter riding but I washed the bike after every ride. Discs, caliper s look fine.

Maybe I just need to fall with the ST to experience that it is not the end of the world (as it is currently pictured in my mind).
Regards
Wash?

Make sure you know how to properly pick up the bike, maybe even practice at home under a controlled environment. She is a heavy beast, and not easy to pick up improperly.
 
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