Why the GS is a better bike.

[Salmon Sam]

Okay, full disclosure. My sons tell me this is called "trolling".
I put this thread title to spark some debate. This article from a recent Motorcyclist magazine makes a good case for the "German" way over the "Japanese" way. Ironically, it uses a Yamaha to make the point. So, in keeping with the article: Is the GS more ground-breaking and is it right to forgive its snafus in the interest of technological improvement?
Another argument could be made that Beemers aren't any more innovative than Japanese models, that is just their reputation.
Interesting perspective, nonetheless, wouldn't you agree?

 

[OldRider]

I rode a GS 12 for a few years and I loved the bike. No problems at all. Before I bought the S10, I went by and looked at the new GS's and what's not to like? The main reason I went with the S10 was I got to keep the extra 5-6 grand in my pocket and I don't have to have any contact with BMW dealers, which was the worse part of owning a BMW.

Plus, I'm just as happy with the S10 as I ever was with the Beemer.

 

[Scoobynut]

Is the GS more ground-breaking and is it right to forgive its snafus in the interest of technological improvement?

That's entirely up to the prospective buyer...myself, I won't take that chance, nor do I want the expensive maintenance and repair bills. I had a German car once; that was enough to dispel any myths about German quality for me -- and this particular vehicle wasn't even technologically innovative compared to my usual Japanese sedans. I'm not very demanding as regards my vehicle's technology, but I do demand that it works whenever I want it to. It's one thing when a part just wears out from use, but another thing altogether when components inexplicably malfunction long before the end of their service life. To me that's the difference between Japanese and German quality -- even though the German vehicle may superficially appear to be built to a higher standard, it usually doesn't have the same long term quality. I think the Japanese are unmatched and on an entirely different plane than the rest when it comes to their development engineering as opposed to design engineering, the latter of which the Germans no doubt excel at. The former? Nope, not even close. I hear people say all the time that all bikes have problems, or they come up with some anecdotes about a particular Japanese vehicle that had some known problems, but nevertheless I'm convinced, and most quality studies back it, that you are greatly decreasing your chances of headaches if you buy Japanese. 35 or so Japanese vehicles later, that's been my experience with few exceptions. They just work, period. I don't like or want headaches.

 

[Koinz]

Okay, full disclosure. My sons tell me this is called "trolling".
I put this thread title to spark some debate. This article from a recent Motorcyclist magazine makes a good case for the "German" way over the "Japanese" way. Ironically, it uses a Yamaha to make the point. So, in keeping with the article: Is the GS more ground-breaking and is it right to forgive its snafus in the interest of technological improvement?
Another argument could be made that Beemers aren't any more innovative than Japanese models, that is just their reputation.
Interesting perspective, nonetheless, wouldn't you agree?

Your son is right - It is Trolling - We already know that Japanese bikes are more reliable and just as innovative.

 

[Karson]

Another GS vs Tenere debate topic based off a magazine article? These sorts of topics are cool to BS about sitting around having a bite to eat amongst friends, but on an internet forum, it'll eventually gets into a flame war in short order.

Enjoy it while it lasts, I guess, but I give it 2 days max...

 

[hANNAbONE]

was a big BMW guy thru the 2000's.
After I had my first and only German car (*1999 Audi A6, POS*) I was on high alert that anything European was suspect.
After I gave yet another try with a 2003 VW GTI and it's tranny failure @ 71K I was done...almost.
I still hung onto the belief that BMW bikes were the cream above all others.
I was wrong.
After many friends BMW's puked rear drives and spline failures and electrical issues and holes in underbellies I switched.

I now drive a Subaru - the same one for 8 years now
I know have settled on 1 bike and 1 bike alone - my SinisterBlack Supa10

I have no other needs at this time.
And I won't be going back to "the Marque"

YMMV

 

[Joega]

Glad gs makes you happy after over 40 beemers can't tell you how much simpler life is with my two s10s

 

[Wanderer]

Howdy,
Everyone knows the answer to that question, "because they cost more"! ::013::

Later,
Norm

 

[pub610]

The motorcycle mag which doesn't sell advertising said it quite well:

Or spend less and get the kind of reliability Japanese bikes are known for.

 

[StevoPivo]

I gave up my beloved '05 FJR for the S10 ES this past weekend. For the past year I vacillated between Yamaha and BMW. Having both dealerships in the same parking lot probably added to that. But I personally knew that Yamaha made excellent bikes. When Yamaha beefed up the 2014 S10 with cruise control, and other electronics and features my decision was made -- for 4 or 5 grand less you get a comparable bike with great engineering quality. When I say "comparable", I mean from my own perspective and riding preferences.

It seems that all the articles and comparos set the GS as the gold standard. It's a fine bike and I almost got one, but the S10 overruled.

 

[Tengai]

Well I am at over the 50 bike mark in my 40 years of having a bike licence, and cannot remember the last time a Japanese bike has ever failed me, but can remember the many times a European bike has. Yes I think the European bikes have more character and quite often are more visually appealing , but at the end of the day getting home on time with no worries is more appealing to me.

 

[Firefight911]

BMW - 8 bikes later....love/hate relationship. WAY over that ridiculous phase.......used to get Christmas cards from the dealer and service guy with THANKS for the business, the Ferrari, the Lamborghini, and the yacht

Love my S10, love my WR250R.........still forget the name of the service guy at the dealership...

I am buying the new Indian Scout though.....

 

[Tyke]

I owned a new K1300 GT EE in 2010, it was a bag of crap (with an great engine) I swapped it for a low mileage GSA which was another bag of crap, I then returned to riding Kawasaki GTR1400 (Concourse) then a Kawasaki Versys 1000 (stonking bike) and now an S10

The S10 is outstanding and far, far better quality than either of my past BMWs

 

[frez]

They are the best at marketing.

 

[stevent]

I traded my '09 GS for a Harley Davidson (don't ask..) when I came to my senses I looked at the new GS, Vstrom and Tenny and while the new GS is a fantastic bike and I had no trouble with my '09, it was not $10k better than the new Vstrom or the '13 left-over Super Tenny I wound up buying. In fact due to a badly broken ankle and 3 months in a cast I had plenty of time to research every thing from Moto Guzzi Stelvio's to KTM to Triumph Explorers. That alone pointed me to the Tenny as a remarkably good bike, test riding one just confirmed the matter. In my opinion as a useful daily rider it's every bit as good as any other bike on the market and things like heated grips and luggage systems can be added for a hell of a lot less than the price difference of a higher end bike. After owning over 35 different bikes over the years I'd say the Tenny was definitely one of the best and if it holds up as well as I think it will I'd be hard pressed to name a better all rounder. I think Yamaha really hit the mark with this one.

::008::

 

[Salmon Sam]

You guys are missing the point. This isn't another GS vs. ST debate.
The point of the article is that not whether the ST is a better bike now. It is: by continuing to buy these proven and refined pieces of technology (and Yamaha can do this better than anyone), we impede that chance-takers that experiment with new technologies that won't be as refined or reliable, or even be given a chance in the long run. By doing this and buying rock-solid reliable machines we end up with reliable versions of all the same technology, but not rewarding those that venture into new and potentially bar-changing innovations.
And then the next part of that would be: are the Germans really anymore innovative or is that just marketing?
I bought the ST in large part because of Yamaha's rock solid reliability, absolutely certain that I didn't get the Beemer craze (albeit it was the GS that got me into adventure biking). I love the ST. Best bike ever. But ... this article may go a ways to justify the GS owner's perspective and some validity to it.

 

[rbernie]

The main reason I went with the S10 was I got to keep the extra 5-6 grand in my pocket and I don't have to have any contact with BMW dealers, which was the worse part of owning a BMW.

Plus, I'm just as happy with the S10 as I ever was with the Beemer.

Pretty much sums it up. I've got hundreds of thousands of miles on Beemers, including at least a hundred K on a couple of early oilhead GS's. When I went looking again this spring for a big road bike that could double as a dreadnought-class adventure tourer, I bought the S10 and in doing so I left the BMW fold for the first time in almost two decades. While I have absolutely no doubt that the change in corporate culture by BMW-NA over the last decade and a half has increased their sales and profits, it has also ruined much of what HAD made BMW attractive to me (and different than the Japanese offerings of my youth):

• Long (8-10 year) model runs, offering incremental model updates without obsolescence
• Mom-n-pop dealerships with distinct personalities and strong 'gearhead' cultures
• A seemingly never-ending parts supply to the keep the older high-mileage beasts running.

Now I can't tell my BMW dealer from any other corporate mega-store, while BMW changes their models every 3-4 years and it seems about as likely for me to be able to get parts for an '83 BMW airhead as it does for a '83 Yamaha Vision. Without the local dealer relationship to make up for the traditional BMW-AG/BMW-NA 'Ve don't make any bad matchines!' arrogance to systemic design flaws (e.g. drive splines, surging, main seals, final drive seals), there's not much to recommend them to somebody who intends to run the bike hard and expect a decent ROI for the cash paid.

The new liquid-cooled GS is a fine machine. It is arguably a technically better machine than the S10 in stock form. For the cash paid - it should be. But I can reflash an S10, strap on a set of Jesse's, and ride the snot outta it for a LOT less cash and potential aggravation than I would have expended trying to do the same with the BMW. In the end - I wanna ride. I'll buy whatever lets me do that the mostest for the leastest hassle and cash. In that light - the Beemer loses.

But I'm sure that the BMW is technically superior. Good for it.

 

[Scoobynut]

You guys are missing the point. This isn't another GS vs. ST debate.
The point of the article is that not whether the ST is a better bike now. It is: by continuing to buy these proven and refined pieces of technology (and Yamaha can do this better than anyone), we impede that chance-takers that experiment with new technologies that won't be as refined or reliable, or even be given a chance in the long run. By doing this and buying rock-solid reliable machines we end up with reliable versions of all the same technology, but not rewarding those that venture into new and potentially bar-changing innovations.
And then the next part of that would be: are the Germans really anymore innovative or is that just marketing?
I bought the ST in large part because of Yamaha's rock solid reliability, absolutely certain that I didn't get the Beemer craze (albeit it was the GS that got me into adventure biking). I love the ST. Best bike ever. But ... this article may go a ways to justify the GS owner's perspective and some validity to it.

I also read the article, but to be honest my eyes start to glaze over when Parker goes on his telescopic fork rants...I guess we could get into a big debate about continuing to refine existing technology -vs.- technological leaps forward -- and who among us are willing to be the beta testers of the new tech. I would say that the GS is still ahead of the Tenere technologically, not by much mind you, but I can't help asking myself whose gizmos and electronic add-ons are going to lead to less headaches. If others are seduced by the GS's tech portfolio, well, it's their money and good for them, doesn't bother me in the least. Still, I'm not one willing to take the leap of faith away from something that's already proven itself to be trouble-free.

I think the Japanese sometimes innovate, but oftentimes they take a great idea that isn't necessarily executed very well by the originators (Wankel/Rotary engine anyone? CVT transmissions?) and perfect it to an unexpected degree. I would be hesitant to say the least to buy a bike with electronic suspension from the Italians or Germans or British, but I trust that Yamaha will have developed it to be as durable and trouble-free as their standard suspension. In the end I think that's what technological leaps forward come down to -- do you trust the manufacturer? Have they developed it to be as reliable as the existing technology or at least close to it?

 

[Hungry Tiger]

Forgive me, but what mfgr has the "global No Ride" recall? At least it was not a technology item, just the rear shock piston rod.

 

[Clevermonkey]

::017::