Who doesn't do valve checks, and have there been issues?

ace50

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steve68steve said:
Speaking to the maintenance interval itself:

1. Some think the designers/ OEM knows best and everything they do is calculated down to the nth degree.

2. Some think it's all about the bean-counters. Tight maintenance intervals are just a profit center (racket) for the dealerships. ...or maybe that the designers/ OEM just pulls a number out of their butts.

Many years ago, I was a mechanical engineering student. An exam question was - given material properties (strength, weight, yield, etc.) - what diameter must the landing gear struts be to safely complete 100,000 landings before metal fatigue requires replacement.

Point: the fatigue failure of metal is a science. It's known, calculable, and repeatable (altho does not account for manufacturing defects). There's also a long history of industry standards, field experience with similar models, statistics, etc. This makes the case for item 1, above.

Profitability is always a concern. Legal exposure is a consideration, so they are motivated to require keeping the machine well-running to avoid failures which could lead to lawsuits. They also need to keep the dealerships profitable. So, very short maintenance intervals are a no-brainer, right? This speaks to item 2, above. Except that if they're too short, they communicate a possible reliability problem, design flaw, or high cost of ownership to the end customer, which kills sales.

So the reality is that these sides pull on each other until some balance is achieved. If a competitor has maintenance interval X, maybe Marketing wants theirs 1.2X just to look more reliable. Sales want it 2X. If dealerships are complaining about profitability, maybe Accounting wants to make the interval 0.8X to help. If field failures are happening, maybe Engineering want to make it .5X. A decision is reached.


So technically, both biases are probably wrong but the truth really DOES lie somewhere between the extremes of "never" and "always."
Well put. All these numbers are 'decided upon' by many people, all with differing motivations. It's not 'Engineers know best' cause you don't even know who made the final decision.
And not all engineers are the same. Science even isn't the end all, as 'people' are involved in the equation. I question everything.


“The more you know, the more you know you don’t know.”
— Aristotle
 

Ramseybella

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You have to fail to understand why you failed.
Evaluation of mechanics to make it better, Maybe? ???
The 1200 Tenere is one of those bikes that sort of reminds me of the old reliable Toyota 22 series motors.
It's getting close to 19 years old since it's beginning.
Does anyone still ride a 2010 or 11?
 

Ironhand

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Comments on the interweb about models which "never need adjustment" can't be trusted. My FZ1 is one of those bikes that most would say don't typically need it. I dug into mine at 26k which is the first interval. 2 of the 20 were tight. That eventually would have caused a problem. I would hate to be the guy who buys a bike from someone who skips the recommended checks.
 

ace50

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I've bought 3 bikes that were way past their 'recommended' valve checks. They ran OK. Checked them, 2 bikes needed minor adjustments.
Probably could have left them alone but they were easy to fix. Unlike the S10.
 

mcbrien

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I have a 2012. I generally ride rural roads at modest speeds. I'm not fast but generally I'm doing the passing.
Had my dealer who I trust do a check at 36,000 miles and all valves were perfect. He said usually there's 1 valve
that needs attention but mine were fine. Seems its a pta cause he see's no reason for another for quite a while.
probably around 80,000 miles I'll do another .
 

Bigbore4

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I checked mine around the first 26,000. all fine.
At around 64,000 I checked and adjusted the exit valves. [they were on the Tight side]
At around 110,000 I put in a new cam chain and the valves were all perfect still.
I'm at around 179,000 miles now and will probably check them again this winter. maybe not.
My 2017 only has 12,000 on it but I probably won't take a look in there until around 50,000.
I'd rather ride than work on stuff.
What did you think of the condition of your cam chain at replacement Steve? I am a 80K and planning a big ride next year.

<end jack>
 

Wrathchild

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I have never heard of a bike that wasn't a dirtbike or a supersport that had valves out of spec enough to cause problems under 30k, most aren't out of spec at all before 30k, but those that are out of spec, it has been enough to adjust but not cause problems yet. (*except in cases of raced bikes, bikes that see track days or other hard high throttle angle high rpm use, dirt bikes or supersports).

So my plan is to check them at 30k and adjust as needed.
 

bimota

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Hi,

can i just ask is 26,000 miles the time yamaha say check valves or 24,000 out of cutiosity i,m at 20,000 now

cheers

rob
 

bimota

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i have a 2013 gen 1, do i need to at the 26000 check need to change the CCT or can i leave till the 48,000 check

rob
 

Boris

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i have a 2013 gen 1, do i need to at the 26000 check need to change the CCT or can i leave till the 48,000 check

rob
Rob, not sure if of any use to you, but I had the CCT changed on my 2013 at around 17k miles, just for peace of mind. I pretty sure they didn't have to open it up to change it. My labour charges were less than 2 hours and I also had other work done that would have taken around an hour.

If it's peace of mind you're after with the CCT, it might just be worth speaking to your local Yamaha workshop.
 

bimota

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Hi Boris,
It is peace of mind, i have a great work shop near by REPS motorcycles asked about valve cleareances and saying alot didn,t need doing so should i leave till the 48000 service, but he,s right let,s open up and have look at the recommened interval for peace of mind.
Told him about the possible issue with CCT he said why don,t we put a manual one in as he,s done these regular on r1 race engines etc with no issues, but get a USA one from i think APE as he always uses these.
He did say that he,s never had to adjust the manual ones either anyway.
So i,m thinking 26000 check valve clearances and put a manual CCT in while opened up, but am i over thinking things.
Rob
 

bimota

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Hi boris,
Can i ask did you change at 17000 because you were worried about the cct stories , did youut another yamaha one in ask as is the newer cct better than the one taken out. just wounder should i put a APE manual one in or go with another yamaha one how have they improved the cct compared to the standard one on the 2013 bike

cheers

rob
 

bimota

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Is the newer CCT from yamaha part number 2BS-12210-01 the part i need to put in a 2013 gen 1 bike and can i ask why its better than the one already in the bike

rob
 

Boris

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Yeah, I'd read a few worrying stories about early CCT failures and was about to set off on a 25 day European trip, It was a worry I didn't want or need. Your quoted part number is correct and the one I had fitted.

I'm not 100% sure on why it's an improved part, however I believe it works under oil pressure and that the oil feed that's part of it may of changed and that it pressurises quicker and holds the pressure better. For a relatively low cost I thought best not to risk running with the questionable original CCT.

I would also have no issues going with the manual one, I know a lot over in the US are happy with theirs. For me though, another CCT upgrade in 50000 or 60000 miles isn't a hardship. I prefer the lower maintenance auto unit.

I know they're a long way from you, but Alf England in Bedworth were good, I have no hesitation in recommending them and will use them again.
 

eemsreno

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What did you think of the condition of your cam chain at replacement Steve? I am a 80K and planning a big ride next year.

<end jack>
Late reply Bigbore4
I've been on the road for a while with no connection to the world.
My chain was junk at 110,000 miles but you should be fine still at 80,000.
 

EricV

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Is the newer CCT from yamaha part number 2BS-12210-01 the part i need to put in a 2013 gen 1 bike and can i ask why its better than the one already in the bike

rob
There is only one CCT part number for the Super Tenere. They didn't come out with a second part for Gen II, they superseded the old part number, indicating a change/improvement in the design. No one has reported a failure of the new design, which appears to have been changed again, (last year?), to the current part number of 2BS-12210-01-00. The same part number is listed for 2010 to 2018 Super Teneres.

If you have a 2010-2013 bike, that has the original design and it's known to sometimes fail. Rarely before 50k miles. Yamaha USA has been recommending replacement of this CCT at or before the second valve check/adjustment interval. I don't know what was improved, but it does appear that actual improvements were made.

In regards to doing valve checks or not. I put 162k on a 2004 FJRa. I checked the valves at 26k and they were fine. I checked again at 52k and two exhaust valves were tight and got re-shimmed. At 78k I checked the valves and they were all good. At 99k I discovered that the tech had not tightened the intake clamps at the 78k check. (long story, Jr tech). During this time I had gone thru 3 CCTs, all getting noisy, but no failures or chain slippage. The FJR had a different design of CCT that ratched out, and these were suffering broken springs and failing to push out with wear to tension the chain properly. The FJR has a much shorter cam chain, so it wouldn't usually slip, just get noisy until the CCT moved out, the get quiet again for a long while.

Because of the loose clamp on the intake snorkles, dirty air and debris was being sucked into the engine and it caused premature ring/piston and valve wear. It was cheaper to buy a used engine than to repair mine, so I purchased a 6k mile used engine in excellent condition from a wrecked bike. I was lucky to buy it from the actual owner, not a wrecker, so it had not been stored outside or dis-assembled.

The replacement engine got the valves checked in another 21k miles or 120k on the bike. One exhast valve needed shimming, the rest were fine. At 146k, the valve check showed the same exhaust valve very tight. It was still possible to shim it back into spec. I was told then that at the next valve check, it might be necessary to have a valve job done because that one valve might be out again and impossible to shim enough to bring it back into spec. I sold the bike, still running great, at 162k miles because I had purchased the Super Ten, so don't know if that actually was the case.

Because of my good history on valve checks with the FJR, on my 2012 Super Ten, I skipped the first valve check. At 52k all 4 exhaust valves were just barely out of spec on the tight side and were re-shimmed. Because of a 8k mile 30 day trip, I delayed the 78k valve check until my return, 83k, upon which the CCT was failing. I suspect the valves were still fine and would not have needed re-shim, but will never know because I changed the oil before taking it to the dealer for the valve check and CCT replacement and the cam chain slipped when I went to start it to ride to the dealer. That resulted in a bent valve, damaged piston and about $4k USD worth of repairs under the YES extended warranty, which took 4 months, mostly waiting on approval from the Yamaha warranty manager.

I kept riding that bike and had the valves checked again around 109k. I don't recall exactly, but think they were fine. I sold the bike shortly after that and the new owner didn't have to wonder if the valves were ok or not. Still had nearly 2 year of YES warranty in place as well.

I'm not a big throttle movement rider. I'm not afraid to use the throttle, I just down saw it back and forth a lot while riding. I mostly go places with the bike and am a smooth rider. For my riding style, it appears that I'm not hard on the valves and can skip a check. The 2015 Super Ten I currently ride will be due for the valve check/adjustment in about 3k miles and I will get it checked. I could probably skip it, but every bike is different and for the ~$400 USD to get it done at the dealer, I want it documented that it was done. You just never know until you check. I'm not willing to let it become worse if there is a tight valve and risk more expensive repairs down the road because I keep my bikes for a lot of miles.
 

bimota

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Thank you EricV,
for spending the time with that great answer, i,m at 20,000 miles so i,ll do a valve check at the 26-30,000 miles but i will put a new cct in at the same time for piece of mind i have had this bike 4 years now and intend to kep a very long time. it gives me time and money now to look at a better rear shock i,m 16.5 stones with gear and my wifes on the back for weekend trips and the yearly trip to europe and this standard shocks not up to it.
rob
 

EricV

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it gives me time and money now to look at a better rear shock i,m 16.5 stones with gear and my wifes on the back for weekend trips and the yearly trip to europe and this standard shocks not up to it.
rob
I'm over 20 stone in gear. Need to work on that more. :( I have a Touratech shock with upgraded spring that I like. Not cheap, and there are less expensive options out there that are good too. Originally I upgraded just the spring to an 1100 lb unit, which worked fine with the OEM shock, for me, for about 50k before starting to notice degradation.
 
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