What Yamaha should do to make me buy it ;-)

[gryphon]

I am in for a bike next year and have been thinking about the 1200 GS and the Super Tenere, must say I was leaning more towards the GS, but after hearing about all the problems many forums members have had with those. I am rethinking my decision.
I must say there are a few things I would like Yamaha to change for the new model, if it ever comes.
1. unleash the power (always good)
2. Move the cable from the throttle handle (obscures part of instrument)
3. Change the computer settings from the handle bars (much easier to do on the fly)
4. Cruise control and gear indicator (is just so convenient)
5. A little less weight is always nice
6. Be able to change screen height while driving
7. The most important thing. Keep the same quality, and I can promise Yamaha that they would sell the 1200 in very high numbers indeed.
The bike really just needs a few updates to make it be on par with the new bikes on the markets.
Just a few thoughts, what do you guys think, can we expect a new Super Tenere any day soon, and what would you guys want to change, to make it a better bike.

 

[limey]

I like mine the way it is. Have you test road the Ténéré yet ? What you want the price would be the same as the BMW.

 

[gryphon]

In my part of the world, the price is about the same ;-)
I have no doubt that it is a fantastic bike, I just think it can be better.

 

[MurphCO]

I agree with 4 & 5

The rest, meh....no biggie.

 

[Gee-Tee]

Maintainance on a GS would be the biggest drawback, check the intervals and the sparse number of dealers away from the large cities.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4

 

[Don in Lodi]

Kinda fun reading that. You want the Tenere to have all the tech, plus some, over the GS, but be more reliable and cheaper than the GS. ::016:: ::024:: ::025::

 

[Chickengrease]

Diesel

 

[gryphon]

Kinda fun reading that. You want the Tenere to have all the tech, plus some, over the GS, but be more reliable and cheaper than the GS. ::016:: ::024:: ::025::

Not really, the price can be the same, as it is here where I live, I don't need the automatic suspension that the GS has, just the things I mention in my post that seams to becoming standard or optional on the new bikes coming on the marked.

 

[creggur]

How about this:
Yamaha keeps building a solid, 1200cc adventure bike that does everything it's billed to do, and you go buy a GS.

If you think Yamaha SHOULD change their bike so YOU will buy it - maybe you're not a prospect for this bike. The BMW dealer awaits your $$$$ for purchase and maintenance. Don't let the door hit you on the ass...

 

[tomatocity]

How about this:
Yamaha keeps building a solid, 1200cc adventure bike that does everything it's billed to do, and you go buy a GS.

If you think Yamaha SHOULD change their bike so YOU will buy it - maybe you're not a prospect for this bike. The BMW dealer awaits your $$$$ for purchase and maintenance. Don't let the door hit you on the ass...

C-YA...

creggur, it was a question. check the subject. Why wouldn't you want more for less.

 

[Roge]

Maintainance on a GS would be the biggest drawback, check the intervals and the sparse number of dealers away from the large cities.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4

I have had may GS's maintenance in its own right was not an issue but Yamaha have enough dealers to keep each other honest don't like one there is another down the road. BMW on the other hand breed arrogance in the dealers as there is limited choice and the "they all do that sir, that's the price & we know best' attitude" abounds. Now I have had had really good service but as happened here a change of management sent the dealer from excellent, friendly and bike oriented to a bikes are not our core business and we know what you want and you'll pay for it in less than 6 months. Both are worthy bikes the support net work tipped me grudgingly to the S10 a bike I had not really considered and for that I thank the locl BMW agent.

 

[creggur]

creggur, it was a question. check the subject. Why wouldn't you want more for less.

I don't see a question, and maybe I'm in a bit of a "mood" tonight, but I tire of the same old Tenere vs GS crap we see here all the time.

Is the GS a bit lighter? Maybe...depends on specific model comparisons and if you believe exactly what the factories list as their specs.

Does the GS have more power? Yep, but for <$500 you can even that out pretty easily.

Is the Tenere more reliable? Really? That's not even a serious question.

Price - in North America that's not even a serious concern. Admittedly, I'm not familiar with pricing in other markets, so my value perspective may not apply.


If controls on the handlebars are worth thousands more for the OP he should buy a GS or maybe an Explorer (with even more hp than the GS) instead of coming here and saying what Yamaha SHOULD DO(his words) for him to buy a Tenere...

 

[longride]

I just picked up a new 2012 Tenere for 11,900. Go try to find a GS for that price! The bike just flat works as is, and will do it for a loooong time. Good luck with the Beemer.

George

 

[gryphon]

I don't see a question, and maybe I'm in a bit of a "mood" tonight, but I tire of the same old Tenere vs GS crap we see here all the time.

Is the GS a bit lighter? Maybe...depends on specific model comparisons and if you believe exactly what the factories list as their specs.

Does the GS have more power? Yep, but for <$500 you can even that out pretty easily.

Is the Tenere more reliable? Really? That's not even a serious question.

Price - in North America that's not even a serious concern. Admittedly, I'm not familiar with pricing in other markets, so my value perspective may not apply.


If controls on the handlebars are worth thousands more for the OP he should buy a GS or maybe an Explorer (with even more hp than the GS) instead of coming here and saying what Yamaha SHOULD DO(his words) for him to buy a Tenere...

wow, I hope you are in a mood; as you call it.
Sorry if I stepped on your tail, I have nothing against Yamaha, I think there quality is outstanding, but the Super Tenere is a few years older than the competition, so its only natural that it is a bit behind when it comes to the electronic side of things,
and also power, its just the way progress is, the same way the new GS is better than the old GS!!!
I can get the GS fully loaded at the same price as the Yamaha worldcrosser, thats why I was playing with the idea of a updated Tenere.
No need to get angry my friend.
My post was meant as a friendly one
Ps.. thanks for the friendlier responses.
Goodnight.

 

[TCAdventure]

Gryphon,

Your post didn't appear to be more than a question intended to start a simple discussion. That's what we're here for (most of us anyhow).

I personally moved away from years on GS's (many GS and GSA's) . I love my 10. The only thing I miss is the gear indicator and i wouldn't mind unrestricted power from the factory. Other than that it has the stuff I want and none of the things I don't. Haven't always loved this bike - but it has grown to be one of my favorites. While I can't fault your list I have found that all of the "issues" have faded into the background the more I ride the 10 and appreciate it for what it is.

My .02. Good luck with your search. If you choose the 10 (in current or updated form) I would guess you'll be very happy.

 

[Rasher]

I am in for a bike next year and have been thinking about the 1200 GS and the Super Tenere, must say I was leaning more towards the GS, but after hearing about all the problems many forums members have had with those. I am rethinking my decision.
I must say there are a few things I would like Yamaha to change for the new model, if it ever comes.
1. unleash the power (always good)

Yes, but emission's are the real problem on all bikes (and cars) so a few hundred quid to get a vehicle flashed and running properly is worthwhile

2. Move the cable from the throttle handle (obscures part of instrument)

I have never noticed this, a non-issue IMO

3. Change the computer settings from the handle bars (much easier to do on the fly)

Agreed, stupid in this day and age, no cost involved at factory, shame on Yamaha - still rather have this inconvenience than the routing breakdowns and recalls of a BMW.

4. Cruise control and gear indicator (is just so convenient)

Split decision, gear indicator is so cheap to do so again shame on Yamaha - but not really a big issue.

Cruise control would be handy, but this does have a cost influence, in the UK the bike is the same cost as a similarly spec'd GS and the Triumph Explorer is much cheaper (as is the V4 Honda) so in that context the Yamaha ought to have Cruise (or be priced lower) but in some markets the S10 is far cheaper than the GS.

5. A little less weight is always nice

The weight costs, the BMW's are light because making them from less metal is cheaper, the old 1200 proved less is definitely not more with many fragile components, the S10 does not feel heavy and I believe the weight is due to it being built to last, rather than to look good on a spec sheet, shaving weight without compromising durability is probably expensive (again in the UK the S10 is expensive so we need a lighter version with Cruise Control)

6. Be able to change screen height while driving

Is this another essential for you :question: I have a Givi Airflow screen which I can adjust on the move, another £100 fix.

7. The most important thing. Keep the same quality, and I can promise Yamaha that they would sell the 1200 in very high numbers indeed.

I doubt it, people put up with one BMW after another that lets them down and still come back for more, BMW also market very well and the perception of BMW quality is way ahead of the reality, much is made by BMW owners of how forums just show the bad examples, but look around here there are not loads of topics about common faults, the same applied to my last Jap bike - years have passed with no major issues on this bike, the latest Beemer has a host of common issues and several recalls after a few months.

The press also crippled the S10's sales potential by immediately knocking its lack of go-wrong-gadgets (like electronic suspension) excessive weight (or at least the spec sheet figure - which is almost bang on, as opposed to BMW who's scales tend to be a good 10% out) lack of power (another from the spec-sheet slag-off) and now the newer bikes from KTM, BMW and Triumph are all more like sports bikes the Yamaha is slated for being way too slow.

I find 100BHP plenty, anything over 100mph could see me banned in the UK (=no job = no house =no bike) and in reality much more than 80 is inappropriate on most roads, the bikes performance is ideal for the road IMO, any more and I would just get into trouble.

The bike really just needs a few updates to make it be on par with the new bikes on the markets.

I think the bike already appeals to those who want a great do-it-all bike that won't let them down and will give years of use with minimal cost / hassle, some small improvements like yours would be nice, but not stick it at the top of most peoples shopping list, in the UK most new bikes are bought by people who change all the time and do not care about durability, many buy into the marketing hype of the "Kool" brands, and the opinions of the Journo's who rate bikes entirely by track / strip performance.

This bike will appeal more as a used bike in a few years time, when all the BMW and KTM's of a similar age are renowned for issues with their electronic suspension and fickle ways, that can only be maintained by expensive main dealers - my local indie charges half the labour rate of BMW (and IMO does a better job) but will not touch a KTM, BMW or Ducati - you have to ask why he turns away this business.

Just a few thoughts, what do you guys think, can we expect a new Super Tenere any day soon, and what would you guys want to change, to make it a better bike.

Grab a current one before it is ruined by Yamaha trying to "compete" with the new kids, or remove it from the range altogether

 

[tomatocity]

Searched for a new 2012 BMW 1200 GS and could not find one. Sure they are out there but must be hiding. There are some 2013 BMW 120 GS liquid cooled's.

Found a used 2012 with 8321 miles, side cases, GPS, heated grips, foot pegs, for $16,997 but ist is not a Super Tenere.

 

[Rasher]

Found a used 2012 with 8321 miles, side cases, GPS, heated grips, foot pegs.....

Bloody hell, are footpegs now an optional extra :

Once looked at a BMW car Vs a Lexus, the Lexus had about £5,000 worth of BMW extra's included in the basic model, and with a £25,000 spend I could not even get the BMW dealer to throw in some free floor mats - I went for the Lexus.

I like to go into BMW dealers for a laugh, "Would sir like some handlebars and wheels with his motorcycle", F*** yeah, Sir would, but not at a premium thanks.


I reckon you will find a similar mileage S10 for about 30% less dosh, with 100% less problems, and about 50% less service costs, but it's your money pal ::008::

 

[creggur]

wow, I hope you are in a mood; as you call it.
Sorry if I stepped on your tail, I have nothing against Yamaha, I think there quality is outstanding, but the Super Tenere is a few years older than the competition, so its only natural that it is a bit behind when it comes to the electronic side of things,
and also power, its just the way progress is, the same way the new GS is better than the old GS!!!
I can get the GS fully loaded at the same price as the Yamaha worldcrosser, thats why I was playing with the idea of a updated Tenere.
No need to get angry my friend.
My post was meant as a friendly one
Ps.. thanks for the friendlier responses.
Goodnight.

Sorry, Gryphon - I shot off at the mouth (or keyboard) at you last night, not a very friendly welcome from me, and for that I do apologize.

Your situation is completely different than ours as far as price goes when comparing the two bikes. Here a brand new Tenere can be had for many thousands less than a GS. The BMW dealer network is sparse and many of those dealers don't have the best reputation for being customer-friendly.

I've not ridden the new GS, but did ride the previous model before buying my Tenere, and thought the Tenere was superior in more than just price and reliability. I liked the Tenere better all the way around except for git-up-and-go which was easily resolved with a $500 ECU flash.

I have no problem admitting I took the wrong approach toward your post, and again I apologize for the harsh tone of my response.

 

[GrahamD]

Gryphon I basically agree with what Rasher said but I would have put it a bit differently.

I don't understand why YAMAHA decided to "restrict" the power in the first three gears. It doesn't bother me at all, it didn't bother me on the DL1000, it did bother me on the 650 I had, but in normal non drag racing life it's really not an issue. It's a Japan Inc thing. A one time charge fixes that.

For some reason the Japanese seem have to be on the defensive all the time regards potential problems. They have always chosen reliability first.
When the bike was first released in the UK at a similar price to the GS there a bunch of kerfuffle about that before anyone had really determined what the bike was like.
One very silly childish article bagging YAMAHA for not managing to get huge horsepower after eight years. It's exactly the same "looking down noses" thing I have come to expect. These "experienced" reviewers thought it was built for the race track. YAMAHA probably thought it was built for other things.

The bike is constantly being compared to the GS not the GSA. It's more GSA than GS as it comes STANDARD from the factory with a bunch of things that were optional on a GS but standard on a GSA. The GSA "mission statement" is closer to the S10 as well. The new one is different. Where I live you have to order a "standard" GS specially and wait and it is still 3K more on the street with nothing.

But so be it.

As far as I am concerned there are a bunch of little things which could be fixed. On the GS there are a bunch of really painful things that aren't printed on the spec sheet they could have fixed.

Whether you will be the 87% with minimal problems or the 13% who suffer, is a matter of chance. These figures are from a report on 1st year issues. I don't know what years 2 and 3 and 4 would look like.

But anyway assuming you are one of the 87%.

It really depends on what you want. I don't mind that YAMAHA held back on the fancy stuff. They did talk to Ohlins about their "DES Error suspension" and decided against it. Time has probably found them correct in that judgement if reliability is a priority, but at the same time I don't consider a bike a "statement" and I donklt hang around coffee shops that much, so I don't really have to worry about painful "comparison people".

Secondly, I use the available 100HP about 2% of my riding time. 125HP would probably be the same. 150 the same, 200HP the same.

What I use 98% of the time is the way the motor works at legal speed, and that is what I have tried to solve over the last 6 years.
I ride "roads" that vary from deep sand, pea gravel, slab, twisties, twin track, single track and needed something that would cover all that with the minimum of fuss.
Not a race so I was more interested in a no fuss, no nonsense, appropriately engineered motorcycle that looked after me as much as possible.

So here is my thoughts.

1. unleash the power (always good)

I'd just let the bike have it's head in the first three gears. Fair enough. I don't know whether the ECU Flash would pass emissions so I will leave that alone for YAMAHA.
Second, I like that the where the bike is tuned. I don't want to be reaching for 3K in sand. I like that YAMAHA got in touch with their low octane burning Chugga side. I use 2K-4K most of the time, not 4K to 8K and in steep rocky places I can Chugga down lower if I have to. I have no doubt that YAMAHA coud do a 13:1 compression, knock sensing, high octane power house, but at the time of design (2008) this was not part of what a world traveling adventure bike was. It still isn't. It's just that the focus has moved away from that brief to "sports bikes for the hip replacement set".

2. Move the cable from the throttle handle (obscures part of instrument)
Doesn't get in the way for me.

3. Change the computer settings from the handle bars (much easier to do on the fly)

If they changed the TC to work on the fly then that would make more sense. And toggling through the information would be nice, but it's not a deal breaker.

4. Cruise control and gear indicator (is just so convenient)

Last gear indicator would be fine for me. I am still trying for 7th. The rest if fine and I don't care about cruise.

5. A little less weight is always nice

I have found that always ends as "For the same price". They may be able to get away with that, but it would be all about the engine. There is so much weight saving going on around the engine I can't see them doing much there. Maybe a plastic tank if they can find a non swelling one. The only real place to save much weight is in the main frame and the motor and transmission. The thing i built tough and they may be able to "thin it out a bit" BUT they may go too far and no one will forgive them as Japan Inc seems to be held to a higher standard in that regard. If a European bike snaps a sub frame it's because you are hard core, if a Japanese bike does the same thing it's because it a POS. There is some belief in magic metal and fairy dust out there and it's not going away anytime soon.

6. Be able to change screen height while driving

Adds weight. I found when I used an adjustable bracket on the DL I spent one day adjusting it and then it pretty much stayed fixed.