Valve Adjustment S10 and BMW
- Thread starter Peter
- Start date
Biker Buzz
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Better yet, why can't they make self adjusting valves? ...hydraulic! :Peter said:
Because the dealer gets around $300 to do it?
I think it may be a "Premium Market" thing. The bikes are probably set up with a bit less margin for error, flying a bit closer to the bone, and BMW has a bit of a history of selling to well heeled, Newbies with money who spec shop or just buy on image. So they may feel that it is better to get that extra 5HP over the competition and do more service, than loose out on the spec sheet, because the clientele can afford it.Peter said:
The Japanese on the other hand have a history of selling reliable cheap bikes to people who don't give a toss and just want top ride so they make things a bit less stressed and generally more reliable. You can add better QA to that as well.
Once it's in a companies veins, it's hard to get out.
Cheers
Graham
Many Japanese such as the Tenere use a Shim Under Bucket design, which in alot of cases last 50-100k miles really before needed adjustment. I can't say about the BMW, but thought they used an adjustable tappet of sorts. Is this true? :question:
I think it is. 2006 model was the last time I looked the guts of one though (Boxer)HoebSTer said:
How about this...
Memories of my 1969 Datsun 1200
colorider
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My 2001 R1150GS was still adjustable tappets. Assume they still are....HoebSTer said:
Rubberbaby
How I feel when not riding a Motorcycle...not good
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Good day thought I would add my cents worth... the clincher for me buying my next motorcycle was amount of Required shop attention vs Milage...AS I was initally a hot and heavy panter for the BMW ADV.. when I saw the maintence schedule required for the BMW vs what is expected from the Tenere..it sealed the deal. Now..if only a few months to go ..( providing my VMAX sells)... can't wait!!
From 2011 on the BMW use a shim system. It still requires a considerable amount more checking. Good thing the jugs stick out and access is easy!! Who knows what they will have when the new water cooled motor comes out in a year.
I now own a FJR, it was 45K miles, it's omly 2007. I took it to Alaska, B.C, Newfoundland and it runs perfect. Yes, I did have a dealer check the valves and they looked fine, so adjustment was needed.
BMW (GS and GSA) look great, but I have a feeling that I will need to add time and money each year to the bike.
Plus, how did the guys from Long Way Down and Long Way Round, do their valves?
BMW R1200GS and GSA older then 2009 needs valve check at 6K miles. That means, on most trips, I have to pull over and check my valves?
hmmm :'(
BMW (GS and GSA) look great, but I have a feeling that I will need to add time and money each year to the bike.
Plus, how did the guys from Long Way Down and Long Way Round, do their valves?
BMW R1200GS and GSA older then 2009 needs valve check at 6K miles. That means, on most trips, I have to pull over and check my valves?
hmmm :'(
My Multistrada was a 6,000 mile adjustmenst at $800. ??? I am very happy to have a 24,000 bike ::022::
WRW9751
Member
I think the 2009 GS was the last Year for adjustable valves. The 2010 GS's are shim and buckets. I for one like adjustable valves, shim and buckets sometimes fall in-between tolerances. However they can't come lose. The adjustable valves often times can be done in a home shop. On the other hand shim & buckets can't, without special tool and a box full of shims.
It's probably easier than a Strom which essentially means disassemble bike until motor is found. (Ok not as bad as some).
If you have a few measurement tools, you can work out what you need and just buy one shim OR you can cheat and buy the next size up and "lap" it to size. A few ways to skin a cat.
But here is the thing. I have never had to replace one. ;D
You rebuild entire motors at home if you want. It's up to you whether you think it is too time consuming or complicated.
The BMW does have the advantage, service wise, of the heads being accessible though. You would think it would cost less.
If you have a few measurement tools, you can work out what you need and just buy one shim OR you can cheat and buy the next size up and "lap" it to size. A few ways to skin a cat.
But here is the thing. I have never had to replace one. ;D
You rebuild entire motors at home if you want. It's up to you whether you think it is too time consuming or complicated.
The BMW does have the advantage, service wise, of the heads being accessible though. You would think it would cost less.
The non-DOHC boxer motors have 6K valve checks with screw/locknut adjustable tappets. No parts/shims and a valve check/adjustment can be done in less than 30-minutes, half that if you're practiced. And you don't have to have a shim kit or have the downtime of swapping/ordering shims at the dealer.
The latest DOHC boxer motors are shim, but the heads remain extremely accessible and there is no need to pull and re-time cams to change shims. There is an initial 6K check, then ever 12K.
The S10 is 24K, but getting to the heads is a fair amount of work and if you need to change a shim, you have to pull and re-time cams which is no picnic and a huge opportunity to do some very expensive damage to your bike if you don't get it right.
Personally, I don't think there is any moral high ground where one of the approaches to clearly superior to the other. The earlier boxers have frequent checks, but they are dead simple. The S10 checks are the least often, but a royal PITA. The new boxer is somewhere in-between.
The idea that longer valve adjustment intervals reflect a mfg's general technical superiority is BS. An air-cooled engine is fundamentally different than a water-cooled one and will have different maintenance requirements and intervals. And valve adjustment intervals, like oil change intervals, are pretty arbitrary anyway, representing a judgment call for the best compromise between service costs and reliability. Different mfgs make different judgments - I think Suzuki and Honda are at 15K or so right now for most of their bikes and I doubt this reflects anything more than being a little more conservative and/or wanting to help dealers out with a little more service work. I wouldn't read any more into it that that.
In general, I think BMW's do have somewhat higher services costs, but not because they are harder to service. They're simply a more upscale product tending to be sold at more upscaled dealers to people who can afford to pay a little more. For example, most BMW dealers provide service loaners to customers, but this is almost never done in a Yamaha dealership. It costs more to service a Lexus vs. a Toyota, but it has nothing to do with the Lexus being technically superior.
- Mark
The latest DOHC boxer motors are shim, but the heads remain extremely accessible and there is no need to pull and re-time cams to change shims. There is an initial 6K check, then ever 12K.
The S10 is 24K, but getting to the heads is a fair amount of work and if you need to change a shim, you have to pull and re-time cams which is no picnic and a huge opportunity to do some very expensive damage to your bike if you don't get it right.
Personally, I don't think there is any moral high ground where one of the approaches to clearly superior to the other. The earlier boxers have frequent checks, but they are dead simple. The S10 checks are the least often, but a royal PITA. The new boxer is somewhere in-between.
The idea that longer valve adjustment intervals reflect a mfg's general technical superiority is BS. An air-cooled engine is fundamentally different than a water-cooled one and will have different maintenance requirements and intervals. And valve adjustment intervals, like oil change intervals, are pretty arbitrary anyway, representing a judgment call for the best compromise between service costs and reliability. Different mfgs make different judgments - I think Suzuki and Honda are at 15K or so right now for most of their bikes and I doubt this reflects anything more than being a little more conservative and/or wanting to help dealers out with a little more service work. I wouldn't read any more into it that that.
In general, I think BMW's do have somewhat higher services costs, but not because they are harder to service. They're simply a more upscale product tending to be sold at more upscaled dealers to people who can afford to pay a little more. For example, most BMW dealers provide service loaners to customers, but this is almost never done in a Yamaha dealership. It costs more to service a Lexus vs. a Toyota, but it has nothing to do with the Lexus being technically superior.
- Mark
Wanderer
New Member
Howdy,
??? All of this may go out the window because supposedly the 2013 GS will be water cooled. Motorcyclist had some spy photo's and it's a big change. The head rotates 90 degrees so the intake is on top of the cyclinder with the exhaust on the bottom. This will more than likely change the whole valve drive train.
Later,
Norm
??? All of this may go out the window because supposedly the 2013 GS will be water cooled. Motorcyclist had some spy photo's and it's a big change. The head rotates 90 degrees so the intake is on top of the cyclinder with the exhaust on the bottom. This will more than likely change the whole valve drive train.
Later,
Norm
It may just make the check times a bit less frequent. I don't think it will make a huge difference to the procedure though.Wanderer said:
Wanderer
New Member
Hi,
One never know, maybe they bring back screw adjusters, maybe even hydraulic lifters, until one shows up will just have to wait and see.
Later,
Norm
One never know, maybe they bring back screw adjusters, maybe even hydraulic lifters, until one shows up will just have to wait and see.
Later,
Norm