Duconce
New Member
Does that include the new 1190 KTM, new Suzuki 1000, ya I would bet you a beer? Do firer Fighters drink?Firefight911 said:
USA Bids Farewell to the Super Tenere - We Hardly Knew Ya'...
- Thread starter Dallara
- Start date
I think you worry too much. Enjoy your lovely Super Ténéré!! ::003::
I don't think after such a short periode they are going to stop producing it.... but I hope they build as well a 800/900, lighter than the 1200.
That would be good to the "non Super Ténéré sized" guys like me...
I don't think after such a short periode they are going to stop producing it.... but I hope they build as well a 800/900, lighter than the 1200.
That would be good to the "non Super Ténéré sized" guys like me...
Ramseybella
Well-Known Member
800/900 would be a good new project for you Jaime!! ::26::JaimeV said:I thimk you worry too much. Enjoy your lovely Super Ténéré!! ::003::
I don't think after such a short periode they are going to stop producing it.... but I hope they build as well a 800/900, lighter than the 1200.
That would be good to the "non Super Ténéré sized" guys like me...
On my trip to Moab this weekend I saw a multitude of HD's, GW's and a hand full of BMW's GS, of course in Moab the KTM's ruled.
But as far as majority on the highway it was HD's first and GW's followed.
I think the adventure crowed in the states have full size pickups with children or grand kids, most of these folks load up a trailer with two or three ATV's and plow up into the mountains.
Face it an ATV can go up some hard trails the Big 10 can't I see little kids doing this darn well on ATV's and you can pack three of them up with enough crap for a week long Safari.
I don't know where the Motorcycle market will be going within the next 20 years if younger folks are not turned onto riding any motorbike, face it in this economy a car is a must over a motorcycle; Motorcycle business is a tougher business than the car business!!
I did the Clutch jump with a switch the thing comes off the chain in the first three gears Yamaha needs to unleash this motor.
I got a good laugh a few times I thought how it sounds like Steve McQueen's 68 GT Mustang in Bullet when you wrench on the throttle and bang through the gears with this mod.
The Tenere is like the motorcycle fitted with a Toyota 22R motor, it won't die if taken care of it is simply a practical bike and thats what I like.
Unleash the ECU.
Beef the suspension.
Lighten it up would be nice.
Switch on the bars? Why not.
Hate to see it tossed under the bus. :-[
I'll just throw out my 2 cents. I really loved my S10 once I got it the way I needed to have it to ride. It is a great bike, but when I sold my Wing,
I was looking for a smaller bike. The Wee Strom is what I wanted and got talked into the Tenere.
I think the market the Yamaha needs to go after is a 400cc to 700cc dual sport. I was really expecting that to happen this year and the year is not over yet. ::025::
If you look at their dirt bikes, there are none in that range. Maybe the triple will be the engine to make that happen. If they brought one out that was in that range and had the necessary features, I would buy it today. I think there are many more like me that want that type of bike.
Just my humble opine
I was looking for a smaller bike. The Wee Strom is what I wanted and got talked into the Tenere.
I think the market the Yamaha needs to go after is a 400cc to 700cc dual sport. I was really expecting that to happen this year and the year is not over yet. ::025::
If you look at their dirt bikes, there are none in that range. Maybe the triple will be the engine to make that happen. If they brought one out that was in that range and had the necessary features, I would buy it today. I think there are many more like me that want that type of bike.
Just my humble opine
I don't think the size of the bike caused slow sales given that BMW is selling bucket loads of 12GSs. For most people these bikes are weekend toys and BMWs give these Starbucks explorers the prestigious image that they crave. Of course it doesn't hurt that the new GS runs like a scalded ape straight out of the crate... >
Ramseybella
Well-Known Member
So if the KLR does so well for low budget in the states why does not Yamaha introduce the 660?
I found this bring the Yamaha 660 to the U.S. Petition on AVD funny it only has 963 responses, not a good incentive for Yamaha.. :-[
http://www.petitiononline.com/XT660Z/
AVD thread started in 2010>> http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=617092
I found this bring the Yamaha 660 to the U.S. Petition on AVD funny it only has 963 responses, not a good incentive for Yamaha.. :-[
http://www.petitiononline.com/XT660Z/
AVD thread started in 2010>> http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=617092
I think this is right on target. I still love my 1200 and plan to keep it and Yam may still may make it after skipping a year. KTM just jumped in the big bike pool and BMW re-upped in the 1200 class so either those guys aren't reading the market or the segment still has life.Firefight911 said:
My ST is completely stock and while there's always room for improvement, I disagree that Yam made any big mistakes with it. As a package, it's a VERY capable adv bike as delivered. With stock power you can hang 60 mph powerslides on dirt roads and TC2 keeps things in check. I've gone incredible places on the thing with it loaded down like a rented mule and it just plugs along and gets you there. I've not felt the need to defeat the ABS as it has always worked really well. I have hung right with a new Multi on pavement as well as FZ-1's, FJR's etc. Its versatility is astounding. And learning to ride it is more effective (and fun) than piling on loads of farkles, imho.
As the old song says, "...you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone."
I do look forward to seeing a 750+/- twin that's 100+ lbs. lighter. Yam's next move will be interesting.
Long live the Super Tenere 1200. ::003::
20valves said:
God, I wish I had wrote that, 20valves!!!
IMHO, your impressions are spot-on, and exactly how I feel and the experiences I've had on my Super Tenere.
Thanks! ::008::
Dallara
~
pub610
2012-- the black one
I was on the Concours Owners Group board when Kawasaki suspended the ZG1000 Concours. The board members got quite worked up.
It worked out ok. I trust this will work out, as well.
It worked out ok. I trust this will work out, as well.
~
Wow!
When I first posted the start of this thread I had no idea the topic would go so friggin' *NUCLEAR* in so short a time! Over 2,000 views and over 110 replies in less than 72 hours! ???
I went off riding all weekend and didn't even bother to look in on the forum until this morning and was pretty stunned to see how this thread has moved off in so many directions. to touch on a few points raised since I last looked in...
- I don't think Yamaha could have done much better at promoting the Super Tenere in the USA than they did. Lots of magazine ads, sponsoring Nick Sanders, made sure all the mags got test bikes with some even for long-term evaluations, sponsoring the AMA Adventure Riders series, big banners, cool brochures, large presence at motorcycle shows, a full line of OEM accessories (even if some are not the best), lots of presence on their web site, free factory sponsored demo rides, etc., etc., etc. Yamaha certainly did as much as any other marque in promoting a new model, and they certainly at least tried to make the bike noticeable to its potential market. Unfortunately, like many established market niches that core is tough to crack. Kind of like when the Japs took their first shots at the Harley cruiser market. The core just didn't welcome them at all - and their are similarities in how the "adventure" bike faithful - namely the BMW G/S and KTM crowd - are pretty evident. They turned their nose up at the Oriental usurper, declaring it unworthy before even riding it. Change comes hard in market niches like this regardless of the country, but they come particularly hard here in North America.
- As has been mentioned by so many, *image* here in the USA is all too often more important than substance here in the USA. For far too many riders here it's more about how they *look* and how they think the world *perceives* them than it is about how it works, or even if the product might even be the best for its task. Harley's success is a perfect example, but so is BMW when it comes to all too many US buyers... Those guys want to *look* the "adventure" part, like they're going to ride off into the wild even though the farthest they will ever go is down to Starbucks - just like they will never take their hugely (and uselessly) jacked-up four-door, four-wheel-drive, over-farkled diesel pick-up with five-foot tall tires anywhere near an off-road trail. Likewise, the very vast majority of "adventure" niche bikes in the USA will not only never go off-road, but they won't rack up more than 2,500 miles a year, and usually that will be in 25 to 50 mile chunks - over to the buddy's house, then they'll ride up to Starbucks, then to the car wash, and finally home after a good scrub to take off 4 bugs. But that won't keep them from buying $5,000 in crash bars, big alloy side cases, two or three racks, a GPS, 6 extra lights, etc., and then another $3,000 on Kilm gear, an Arai XD4 helmet, the latest AlpineStar boots, and wildly overpriced gloves... Why not? They have to look better than their buddies at Starbucks and Barnes & Noble (where they buy the magazines)... Just like the lawyer who buys the Harley FLSHTC CVO Custom Limited Anniversary Edition, leather chaps, leather vest, fingerless gloves, doo-rag, etc. (all H-D branded, of course) just so everybody down at the local wanna-be watering hole knows he spent more than they did to "look the part"...
- There were times that low-selling models could survive multiple years and still stay in the Jap's line-ups, but I think after the market meltdown in 2008 those days are over. If the model won't pull its own weight in profitability then it's gonna' be gone, gone, gone for the distributor in that market... And it's very, very important that each of these Japanese manufacturers has a separate distributor in each major market, just like Yamaha has Yamaha USA, Honda has American Honda, etc. Each of these distributorships has to maintain its own balance sheet, and you need look no further than Suzuki's USA auto distributorship filing bankruptcy just a couple of short years ago.
Remember it is Yamaha USA that decides what Yamaha models come to the United States, not Yamaha Japan. That's why we've never gotten the XT660 Tenere here in the USA. It's not because Yamaha Japan wouldn't be happy as a clam to produce them for this market. They'd love to, but Yamaha USA doesn't see they could sell enough of them here to make it profitable. Much like dealers order bikes from Yamaha USA, Yamaha USA orders what they think they can sell from Yamaha Japan. If they see a model that Yamaha already makes and they think it might sell in the USA, they Yamaha USA orders up a specified number (or does a PDP) and gives it a try. If it works, great... If it doesn't then they stop ordering it, and it disappears from these shores, and it's the same in other markets, too. Likewise, if Yamaha USA thinks they have an idea for a model for the USA market, and nothing like that exists (like a big cruiser like, say, the Stratoliner), then they ask Yamaha Japan to do a feasibility study to look at the numbers, and if they do look promising then the model is developed further, then maybe produced, and later sold. That's how the Super Tenere was developed in the first place... Either Yamaha Japan, or one of their distributors in another country, took a look at a certain market and decided there might be a profit there, and the model. Only after it was developed and sold in other markets did Yamaha USA look at it and say "Maybe here?"
They tried it, and it is beginning to look like it sold a bit, but not enough, and Yamaha USA is at least taking a break from it.
- IMHO, no three- or four-cylinder bike will ever be a true "adventure" motorcycle. The power characteristics just aren't there for proper off-road work. Even Yamaha found that out when they tried an FZ-750 inline-four in a Tenere race bike, and they went back to twins after that, then singles. If Yamaha ever does take the FZ-09 engine (or a four-cylinder) and use it in an "adventure" model I'll actually be very, very sad, because it will signal to me they have "sold out" to the poseurs and wanna-bes - i.e. the guys who only ride on the street and never venture off-road unless the Starbucks parking lot is being re-paved. IMHO, a Tenere needs to be a single or a twin, and I'm not sure I'd be interested in buying one that's not.
- As for betting a beer, Big Blu, on whether the Super Tenere "will be back in the Adventure Touring segment in the USA in 2015"... I'll take the bet... Not because I don't want it to be back in the USA line-up, but simply because I don't think Yamaha sees enough of a market here numbers-wise. I'll take your bet, and gladly, gladly, gladly pay up if a Super Tenere shows back up on Yamaha USA's 2015 line-up page. I'll gladly pay it because I want to see the model survive here long enough to carve out it's own captive market niche, much like the Kawasaki KLR has and holds onto. I think if Yamaha gives the Super Tenere a chance, like it did with the FJR, then I think it will catch on and forever be a mainstay of their line-up in this country. And I don't care if it takes there being a PDP every year to get it. That's fine with me.
As for the bet, we'll see, and I'll make sure I've always got enough cash in my pocket to pay up, Big Blu, just in case! ::025::
- As I have said, I'm pretty sure Yamaha is going to continue to develop, refine, and sell the Super Tenere in other markets in the world, and that bodes well for a updated one in the not too distant future. Much like the FJR already mentioned (and in many ways, the V-Max), at some point Yamaha sees the need to upgrade and refine a model. Hopefully that's what we see with the big 1,200cc Super Tenere here shortly... maybe better suspension standard with an ES option, cruise control, instrument functions handlebar switch accessible, TCS "remembering" what selection it was in despite key cycles, better ECU mapping, etc., etc. just like so many have asked. After all, Yamaha has a ton invested in developing this engine and shaft-drive powerplant, tooling up for it, and producing it. I doubt they would like to toss it aside after only four years, especially since it is such a well though-out and reliable platform. The entire driveline just flat *WORKS*, and it needs only incremental development for years to come if Yamaha so chooses, just like the FJR. it will continue, IMHO... Just maybe not here in the USA.
- As for "another Tenere" coming to the USA, as Jaxon mentioned, something makes me think it's liable to the 250 Tenere currently sold in Brazil. It's my understanding that Yamaha is about to go on a binge of offering all sorts of "entry level" motorcycles to try to bolster getting new riders into motorcycling, and one way they are going to do this with smaller displacement models and lots of advertising about "economy"... Personally, I hope they do exactly that. A real fuel-injected, dual-purpose bike with a decent fuel range (which our current XT250 does *NOT* have) would be a god thing, IMHO.
- I pretty much agree with Firefight911/Phil... Only I think Yamaha will keep the 1,200cc Super Tenere in other markets and develop it, for no other reason than I think, again, they have too much invested in it. OTOH, I do think they may very well be developing an 800 or 900cc twin for "adventure" bike use. Sadly, I think it will be chain-drive instead of shaft, but it will be lighter and more agile. That said, I'm not sure it will be coming to the USA... After all, the sales numbers of BMW's and Triumph's 800cc "adventure" bikes are not setting any records (I think the 1,200 G/S still outsells their two 800's, though the Triumph 800's do outsell the 1200 Explorer) here in the USA. Much as we all want to hope for it, Yamaha USA can't afford to chase every market niche out there, any more than Honda, Kawasaki, or Suzuki can. Do I hope we get an 900cc Yamaha Tenere twin? Sure... Do I think it will happen? I'm pretty pessimistic...
- Ramseybella hits on an interesting point... How ATV and UTV sales have hurt the motorcycle market. When I was growing up every kid I know wanted a mini-bike or a dirt bike. There were no ATV's or UTV's like we have today, nor nearly as much anti-motorcycle sentiment. Lots of my parents friends rode motorcycles, and a ton of my friends had mini-bikes, motocross bikes, street-trail bikes, and the like. And that's most guys I know and around my age (and even younger for a decade or two) got started riding - on dirt bikes - and then made the transition to street bikes. That's simply *NOT* happening in the numbers necessary today. IIRC, 1973 was the biggest motorcycle sales year in history until something like 2003, but there was a big difference... in 1973 more than half the bikes sold were under 350cc's, and now more than 85% are over 1,000cc's. What's that tell you?
We need to get new riders into the fold, and quick... And ATV's and UTV's are not the way to do it.
That's really enough for this post... It's gone on way too long already!!! ???
But I am planning another post here in this thread soon, to address the one nastiest problem Yamaha's decision sticks all current USA Super Tenere owners with - instantly reduced resale/trade-in value...
Like it or not, at least for the short-term, Yamaha dropping the Super Tenere here makes our bikes worth a lot less, not a lot more.
Dallara
p.s. Love the CCM 450, BTW!!! ::008::
~
Wow!
When I first posted the start of this thread I had no idea the topic would go so friggin' *NUCLEAR* in so short a time! Over 2,000 views and over 110 replies in less than 72 hours! ???
I went off riding all weekend and didn't even bother to look in on the forum until this morning and was pretty stunned to see how this thread has moved off in so many directions. to touch on a few points raised since I last looked in...
- I don't think Yamaha could have done much better at promoting the Super Tenere in the USA than they did. Lots of magazine ads, sponsoring Nick Sanders, made sure all the mags got test bikes with some even for long-term evaluations, sponsoring the AMA Adventure Riders series, big banners, cool brochures, large presence at motorcycle shows, a full line of OEM accessories (even if some are not the best), lots of presence on their web site, free factory sponsored demo rides, etc., etc., etc. Yamaha certainly did as much as any other marque in promoting a new model, and they certainly at least tried to make the bike noticeable to its potential market. Unfortunately, like many established market niches that core is tough to crack. Kind of like when the Japs took their first shots at the Harley cruiser market. The core just didn't welcome them at all - and their are similarities in how the "adventure" bike faithful - namely the BMW G/S and KTM crowd - are pretty evident. They turned their nose up at the Oriental usurper, declaring it unworthy before even riding it. Change comes hard in market niches like this regardless of the country, but they come particularly hard here in North America.
- As has been mentioned by so many, *image* here in the USA is all too often more important than substance here in the USA. For far too many riders here it's more about how they *look* and how they think the world *perceives* them than it is about how it works, or even if the product might even be the best for its task. Harley's success is a perfect example, but so is BMW when it comes to all too many US buyers... Those guys want to *look* the "adventure" part, like they're going to ride off into the wild even though the farthest they will ever go is down to Starbucks - just like they will never take their hugely (and uselessly) jacked-up four-door, four-wheel-drive, over-farkled diesel pick-up with five-foot tall tires anywhere near an off-road trail. Likewise, the very vast majority of "adventure" niche bikes in the USA will not only never go off-road, but they won't rack up more than 2,500 miles a year, and usually that will be in 25 to 50 mile chunks - over to the buddy's house, then they'll ride up to Starbucks, then to the car wash, and finally home after a good scrub to take off 4 bugs. But that won't keep them from buying $5,000 in crash bars, big alloy side cases, two or three racks, a GPS, 6 extra lights, etc., and then another $3,000 on Kilm gear, an Arai XD4 helmet, the latest AlpineStar boots, and wildly overpriced gloves... Why not? They have to look better than their buddies at Starbucks and Barnes & Noble (where they buy the magazines)... Just like the lawyer who buys the Harley FLSHTC CVO Custom Limited Anniversary Edition, leather chaps, leather vest, fingerless gloves, doo-rag, etc. (all H-D branded, of course) just so everybody down at the local wanna-be watering hole knows he spent more than they did to "look the part"...
- There were times that low-selling models could survive multiple years and still stay in the Jap's line-ups, but I think after the market meltdown in 2008 those days are over. If the model won't pull its own weight in profitability then it's gonna' be gone, gone, gone for the distributor in that market... And it's very, very important that each of these Japanese manufacturers has a separate distributor in each major market, just like Yamaha has Yamaha USA, Honda has American Honda, etc. Each of these distributorships has to maintain its own balance sheet, and you need look no further than Suzuki's USA auto distributorship filing bankruptcy just a couple of short years ago.
Remember it is Yamaha USA that decides what Yamaha models come to the United States, not Yamaha Japan. That's why we've never gotten the XT660 Tenere here in the USA. It's not because Yamaha Japan wouldn't be happy as a clam to produce them for this market. They'd love to, but Yamaha USA doesn't see they could sell enough of them here to make it profitable. Much like dealers order bikes from Yamaha USA, Yamaha USA orders what they think they can sell from Yamaha Japan. If they see a model that Yamaha already makes and they think it might sell in the USA, they Yamaha USA orders up a specified number (or does a PDP) and gives it a try. If it works, great... If it doesn't then they stop ordering it, and it disappears from these shores, and it's the same in other markets, too. Likewise, if Yamaha USA thinks they have an idea for a model for the USA market, and nothing like that exists (like a big cruiser like, say, the Stratoliner), then they ask Yamaha Japan to do a feasibility study to look at the numbers, and if they do look promising then the model is developed further, then maybe produced, and later sold. That's how the Super Tenere was developed in the first place... Either Yamaha Japan, or one of their distributors in another country, took a look at a certain market and decided there might be a profit there, and the model. Only after it was developed and sold in other markets did Yamaha USA look at it and say "Maybe here?"
They tried it, and it is beginning to look like it sold a bit, but not enough, and Yamaha USA is at least taking a break from it.
- IMHO, no three- or four-cylinder bike will ever be a true "adventure" motorcycle. The power characteristics just aren't there for proper off-road work. Even Yamaha found that out when they tried an FZ-750 inline-four in a Tenere race bike, and they went back to twins after that, then singles. If Yamaha ever does take the FZ-09 engine (or a four-cylinder) and use it in an "adventure" model I'll actually be very, very sad, because it will signal to me they have "sold out" to the poseurs and wanna-bes - i.e. the guys who only ride on the street and never venture off-road unless the Starbucks parking lot is being re-paved. IMHO, a Tenere needs to be a single or a twin, and I'm not sure I'd be interested in buying one that's not.
- As for betting a beer, Big Blu, on whether the Super Tenere "will be back in the Adventure Touring segment in the USA in 2015"... I'll take the bet... Not because I don't want it to be back in the USA line-up, but simply because I don't think Yamaha sees enough of a market here numbers-wise. I'll take your bet, and gladly, gladly, gladly pay up if a Super Tenere shows back up on Yamaha USA's 2015 line-up page. I'll gladly pay it because I want to see the model survive here long enough to carve out it's own captive market niche, much like the Kawasaki KLR has and holds onto. I think if Yamaha gives the Super Tenere a chance, like it did with the FJR, then I think it will catch on and forever be a mainstay of their line-up in this country. And I don't care if it takes there being a PDP every year to get it. That's fine with me.
As for the bet, we'll see, and I'll make sure I've always got enough cash in my pocket to pay up, Big Blu, just in case! ::025::
- As I have said, I'm pretty sure Yamaha is going to continue to develop, refine, and sell the Super Tenere in other markets in the world, and that bodes well for a updated one in the not too distant future. Much like the FJR already mentioned (and in many ways, the V-Max), at some point Yamaha sees the need to upgrade and refine a model. Hopefully that's what we see with the big 1,200cc Super Tenere here shortly... maybe better suspension standard with an ES option, cruise control, instrument functions handlebar switch accessible, TCS "remembering" what selection it was in despite key cycles, better ECU mapping, etc., etc. just like so many have asked. After all, Yamaha has a ton invested in developing this engine and shaft-drive powerplant, tooling up for it, and producing it. I doubt they would like to toss it aside after only four years, especially since it is such a well though-out and reliable platform. The entire driveline just flat *WORKS*, and it needs only incremental development for years to come if Yamaha so chooses, just like the FJR. it will continue, IMHO... Just maybe not here in the USA.
- As for "another Tenere" coming to the USA, as Jaxon mentioned, something makes me think it's liable to the 250 Tenere currently sold in Brazil. It's my understanding that Yamaha is about to go on a binge of offering all sorts of "entry level" motorcycles to try to bolster getting new riders into motorcycling, and one way they are going to do this with smaller displacement models and lots of advertising about "economy"... Personally, I hope they do exactly that. A real fuel-injected, dual-purpose bike with a decent fuel range (which our current XT250 does *NOT* have) would be a god thing, IMHO.
- I pretty much agree with Firefight911/Phil... Only I think Yamaha will keep the 1,200cc Super Tenere in other markets and develop it, for no other reason than I think, again, they have too much invested in it. OTOH, I do think they may very well be developing an 800 or 900cc twin for "adventure" bike use. Sadly, I think it will be chain-drive instead of shaft, but it will be lighter and more agile. That said, I'm not sure it will be coming to the USA... After all, the sales numbers of BMW's and Triumph's 800cc "adventure" bikes are not setting any records (I think the 1,200 G/S still outsells their two 800's, though the Triumph 800's do outsell the 1200 Explorer) here in the USA. Much as we all want to hope for it, Yamaha USA can't afford to chase every market niche out there, any more than Honda, Kawasaki, or Suzuki can. Do I hope we get an 900cc Yamaha Tenere twin? Sure... Do I think it will happen? I'm pretty pessimistic...
- Ramseybella hits on an interesting point... How ATV and UTV sales have hurt the motorcycle market. When I was growing up every kid I know wanted a mini-bike or a dirt bike. There were no ATV's or UTV's like we have today, nor nearly as much anti-motorcycle sentiment. Lots of my parents friends rode motorcycles, and a ton of my friends had mini-bikes, motocross bikes, street-trail bikes, and the like. And that's most guys I know and around my age (and even younger for a decade or two) got started riding - on dirt bikes - and then made the transition to street bikes. That's simply *NOT* happening in the numbers necessary today. IIRC, 1973 was the biggest motorcycle sales year in history until something like 2003, but there was a big difference... in 1973 more than half the bikes sold were under 350cc's, and now more than 85% are over 1,000cc's. What's that tell you?
We need to get new riders into the fold, and quick... And ATV's and UTV's are not the way to do it.
That's really enough for this post... It's gone on way too long already!!! ???
But I am planning another post here in this thread soon, to address the one nastiest problem Yamaha's decision sticks all current USA Super Tenere owners with - instantly reduced resale/trade-in value...
Like it or not, at least for the short-term, Yamaha dropping the Super Tenere here makes our bikes worth a lot less, not a lot more.
Dallara
p.s. Love the CCM 450, BTW!!! ::008::
~
I like what you posted, Dallara. And while I won't rehash on it all, I think you pretty much hit it spot on on all fronts. But I want to touch just on the the marketability/marketing claim, since I had some vested interest in Salmon Sam's reply to me early on. It's not that I don't think Yamaha took the correct actions in getting the "best bang for their marketing dollar", I think they did - now that I've seen responses from others posts.
Looking back on my earlier thoughts & comments, I think I should reclarify by saying, you can't market to those who don't want to listen. I think that captures my earlier thoughts better. Maybe it's because I spent a few months getting a feel for this bike via you guys on the forum before I actually took ownership that helped shape that this was the bike for me.
In a way, you guys marketed on behalf of Yamaha, and I sought it out. I wasn't actively looking for a Yamaha PR campaign to sell me a true GS competitor (i was adamantly against a GS). Ironically, I would have probably settled at the time (and that's not a typo) on a Vstrom 1000. While it appears they're coming up with some new stuff on that front, I never viewed it as a real offroad capable bike. Maybe some gravel travel, but that's it.
Anyway, the big thing is that my age (late 20's early 30's) I feel has no vested interest in adventure riding. Almost nil of that age group will seek it out, let alone have somebody spoon feed them why we, along with folks who have a dozen of other bikes to choose from in the garage, constantly saddle up on this bike. But, maybe it's more geographical. If one was raised on motocross in CO, or hare scrambles in AR, maybe that trend is false, but at least in the Central Plains I think it holds true. My age group wants a Gixxer 750 they can get from stop light to stop light as fast as possible, or a cruiser where they can bar hop between towns and look the image riding down the highway.
It's really hard for a market newcomer like Yamaha to forge its place in an already niche market, when BMW already took the market share in said small niche already years ago, it seems.
Question - back when BMW GS's came to be so dominant in the ADV arena, were concerns about the market what they are today? Or did BMW make the ADV market from what could be called, "scratch"?
Anyway, if y'all can read through that mumbo jumbo and make sense of it, that's all the more I'll probably say on the subject. Can't ::002:: forever But, as a relatively new member to the ADV segment, I'm curious as to the history of the BMW ADV segment and how it might translate into this situation.
Looking back on my earlier thoughts & comments, I think I should reclarify by saying, you can't market to those who don't want to listen. I think that captures my earlier thoughts better. Maybe it's because I spent a few months getting a feel for this bike via you guys on the forum before I actually took ownership that helped shape that this was the bike for me.
In a way, you guys marketed on behalf of Yamaha, and I sought it out. I wasn't actively looking for a Yamaha PR campaign to sell me a true GS competitor (i was adamantly against a GS). Ironically, I would have probably settled at the time (and that's not a typo) on a Vstrom 1000. While it appears they're coming up with some new stuff on that front, I never viewed it as a real offroad capable bike. Maybe some gravel travel, but that's it.
Anyway, the big thing is that my age (late 20's early 30's) I feel has no vested interest in adventure riding. Almost nil of that age group will seek it out, let alone have somebody spoon feed them why we, along with folks who have a dozen of other bikes to choose from in the garage, constantly saddle up on this bike. But, maybe it's more geographical. If one was raised on motocross in CO, or hare scrambles in AR, maybe that trend is false, but at least in the Central Plains I think it holds true. My age group wants a Gixxer 750 they can get from stop light to stop light as fast as possible, or a cruiser where they can bar hop between towns and look the image riding down the highway.
It's really hard for a market newcomer like Yamaha to forge its place in an already niche market, when BMW already took the market share in said small niche already years ago, it seems.
Question - back when BMW GS's came to be so dominant in the ADV arena, were concerns about the market what they are today? Or did BMW make the ADV market from what could be called, "scratch"?
Anyway, if y'all can read through that mumbo jumbo and make sense of it, that's all the more I'll probably say on the subject. Can't ::002:: forever
But, as a relatively new member to the ADV segment, I'm curious as to the history of the BMW ADV segment and how it might translate into this situation.dr_rock
New Member
Bigbore4 said:
Interesting points, Karson. I recall the earliest R80 BMW GS bikes back in the mid to late '80s. I thought they were kind of peculiar looking at the time, and indeed, they appealed only to a very small niche market. To give BMW credit, I think they did essentially carve out the adventure riding segment before it was even identified as such. I mean, there have always been adventure riders, folks who will take their street bikes anywhere and everywhere (Ted Simon with his Triumph 500 in "Jupiter's Travels" comes to mind,) but I think the GS series was the first large "adventure bike" built specifically for this purpose. So now we have KTM, Yamaha, Triumph, and Moto Guzzi testing the waters out in this admittedly small market. As a former Stelvio owner, the reliability and build quality of the Super Ten has greatly impressed me. I think of all the pretenders to the BMW throne, the ST has not only come the closest to hitting the mark, but indeed is superior in most ways to the GS. I truly hope this is only a speed bump and that Yamaha has not blinked when it comes to fighting for the ADV market. This is a great bike! It deserves a future.Karson said:I like what you posted, Dallara. And while I won't rehash on it all, I think you pretty much hit it spot on on all fronts. But I want to touch just on the the marketability/marketing claim, since I had some vested interest in Salmon Sam's reply to me early on. It's not that I don't think Yamaha took the correct actions in getting the "best bang for their marketing dollar", I think they did - now that I've seen responses from others posts.
Looking back on my earlier thoughts & comments, I think I should reclarify by saying, you can't market to those who don't want to listen. I think that captures my earlier thoughts better. Maybe it's because I spent a few months getting a feel for this bike via you guys on the forum before I actually took ownership that helped shape that this was the bike for me.
In a way, you guys marketed on behalf of Yamaha, and I sought it out. I wasn't actively looking for a Yamaha PR campaign to sell me a true GS competitor (i was adamantly against a GS). Ironically, I would have probably settled at the time (and that's not a typo) on a Vstrom 1000. While it appears they're coming up with some new stuff on that front, I never viewed it as a real offroad capable bike. Maybe some gravel travel, but that's it.
Anyway, the big thing is that my age (late 20's early 30's) I feel has no vested interest in adventure riding. Almost nil of that age group will seek it out, let alone have somebody spoon feed them why we, along with folks who have a dozen of other bikes to choose from in the garage, constantly saddle up on this bike. But, maybe it's more geographical. If one was raised on motocross in CO, or hare scrambles in AR, maybe that trend is false, but at least in the Central Plains I think it holds true. My age group wants a Gixxer 750 they can get from stop light to stop light as fast as possible, or a cruiser where they can bar hop between towns and look the image riding down the highway.
It's really hard for a market newcomer like Yamaha to forge its place in an already niche market, when BMW already took the market share in said small niche already years ago, it seems.
Question - back when BMW GS's came to be so dominant in the ADV arena, were concerns about the market what they are today? Or did BMW make the ADV market from what could be called, "scratch"?
Anyway, if y'all can read through that mumbo jumbo and make sense of it, that's all the more I'll probably say on the subject. Can't ::002:: forever
-Bruce
You guys are giving me a headache with all this useless typing.
You need be out enjoying your bikes while replacement parts are still available! ::021::
You need be out enjoying your bikes while replacement parts are still available! ::021::
My question regards dropping it from the US, but keep selling it in other markets.
What country buys more Teneres than the USA?
I realize the forum is just a slice of the worldwide Tenere owners. But it might be a fair to say that the US and it's citizen's personal buying prowess would be responsible for a large chunk of the low volume sales of this model? Where am I wrong?
Drives me nuts. The Tenere 660 isn't here because the "supposed" low demand. But it still seems like 330 million people have more buying power than say......Australia with 27 million. Texas has almost 27 million, for crying out loud.
What country buys more Teneres than the USA?
I realize the forum is just a slice of the worldwide Tenere owners. But it might be a fair to say that the US and it's citizen's personal buying prowess would be responsible for a large chunk of the low volume sales of this model? Where am I wrong?
Drives me nuts. The Tenere 660 isn't here because the "supposed" low demand. But it still seems like 330 million people have more buying power than say......Australia with 27 million. Texas has almost 27 million, for crying out loud.
+1. Many words, few facts. Just reading it triggered my carpel tunnel syndrome ! ::021::simmons1 said:
That cold beer from Dallara will go down well! Hell, I'll even ride to Tx. To collect, zoom zoom here I come Dallara. ::025::
Regards, Paul
I'll take the wager, BMW / KTM / Triumph / Honda are all pushing 1200's - notice the two "class leaders" in there with KTM going up from 990 to 1200.Firefight911 said:
Smaller bikes will attract a lot of riders, but the big class has a place, especially for those who do distances and / or ride two up a lot, there is no way I would want a 800cc bike, be it a twin or a triple, I want / need GRUNT