To Tenere or to Explorer

[Boricua]

Yesterday and was out in one of my 300 mile Sunday rides. I rode about 100 miles to get where the real ride started followed by 40 miles of glorious sweepers, turns, and hills with no traffic or patrol cars anywhere in sight. The only thing I had to watch out for was an occasional cattle guard and of course cattle on the road since I was in open range country. Through the half way mark on the way back I had to make a quick decision. I had my fun on the pavement, should I go dirt for a big section of the way or should I stick to the freeway and get back home on time for dinner as I promised my wife? The Versys on dirt is a slow ride proposition since the bike is not really made for it. I wonder if I was riding the Tenere I was going to have to make the choice at all. I think not. However, I cannot keep the idea of the sweepers and twisties on the Explorer out of my mind. How much fun is the Tenere on the twisties? I did not have a chance to ride it on a real motorcycle road. Can I compare it with the nimble characteristics of my Versys? I don't think so. I want to know how much I will be giving up.

 

[GrahamD]

You'll give up 10% on road and gain 30% on dirt. Then you will forget about the freeways.

If you want to give up less on tar, drop the forks and jack up the rear, stick a fuse in the clutch switch and you will start to close in on the Explorer.

I have dropped the forks a bit, that's all. Don't to make any more concessions for the road. At legal speeds +50% it works great I usually give up on the WOW stuff after 3 months anyway. What I need is a bike for the 5 years after that.

That's just me. Others will exaggerate and make out like a lack of cruise control is a major problem in the world up there with Fukushima.

But the lack of built in cloud synch photo and video services is really bugging me. ::025::

 

[Dallara]

Yesterday and was out in one of my 300 mile Sunday rides. I rode about 100 miles to get where the real ride started followed by 40 miles of glorious sweepers, turns, and hills with no traffic or patrol cars anywhere in sight. The only thing I had to watch out for was an occasional cattle guard and of course cattle on the road since I was in open range country. Through the half way mark on the way back I had to make a quick decision. I had my fun on the pavement, should I go dirt for a big section of the way or should I stick to the freeway and get back home on time for dinner as I promised my wife? The Versys on dirt is a slow ride proposition since the bike is not really made for it. I wonder if I was riding the Tenere I was going to have to make the choice at all. I think not. However, I cannot keep the idea of the sweepers and twisties on the Explorer out of my mind. How much fun is the Tenere on the twisties? I did not have a chance to ride it on a real motorcycle road. Can I compare it with the nimble characteristics of my Versys? I don't think so. I want to know how much I will be giving up.

I've owned *TWO* Versys... And still own one of those. I should also note I think the Kawasaki Versys is perhaps one of the best "bang for the buck" motorcycles ever made. I even think - against popular opinion - that it is a better motorcycle than its direct competitor, the Suzuki Wee-Strom. I love the Versys, and I love the way it handles, etc.

That said... I think my Super Ténéré is actually superior in the "twisties" than the Versys... By a large degree. Its suspension is better. Its chassis stiffness is better. Its brakes are *LIGHT-YEARS* better. And its steering is more linear and provides better feedback than the Versys, IMHO.

Oh, and it has a wonderful TCS and ABS system, and that evaluation is coming from a guy who up until the S-10 *HATED* any ABS or TCS system, period. ???

As has been mentioned, if you slide the forks up in the clamps on the Super Ténéré just a bit (mine are up 0.60") then it steers with much more pavement precision than it has any right to... And I can't tell you how many sport bikes I have managed to embarrass with the S-10. Far more than I could ever say I did on a Versys - and remember, I love the Versys and still own one!

And the Super Ténéré is so far superior in the dirt it damn near defies description.

Just my two centavos... YMMV.

Dallara



~

 

[Boricua]

Better than a Versys in the twisties? Really? That's a major statement. ??? The Versys is one of the best handling bikes at any price point. Yeah the breaks in the Versys kind of suck in comparison. Let me correct, the breaks in the Versys really suck in comparison. Still on the sidelines. Discounted s10's are starting to pop up in craigslist so I'll sit this one out for another month to see what incentives pop up. The price difference between the Explorer and the Tenere is making it almost a no brainer. I'm starting to see S10's under $13K new and low mileage used under $12K. The Triumph dealer is still stuck at MSRP and does not want to talk numbers until I start serious negotiations. We'll see.

Thanks,

 

[Rasher]

Having a slightly longer Wilburs fully adjustable shock fitted next week.

I found taking 5-6mm out of the rear sag made a huge difference to the road handling, any more and the ride feels a bit harsh, so with my new shock I ordered it a few mm longer - enough to raise the rear about 5mm to start with.

It will also have a stiffer spring so will hold the bike higher in the turns which is why I have no gone mad and really jacked the bike up, and I would be able to drop the forks a few mm if need be and still have more ground clearance than the stock setup - especially two-up where even on full pre-load it is all too easy to deck out.

Over here the Yamaha is very expensive (more than Stock GS or Explorer) but many deals are out there and for the cost of the Explorer I got a 6 month old 150 mile bike with more than enough cash left over to spend £900 on suspension, £300 on an ECU flash, £1200 on luggage and still have enough change for the next set of tyres.

 

[wantajustride]

I'm at 9,000 miles in about 8 months. Just finished a 900 mile loop around Colorado. Twisty asphalt, long flat straight stretches, some graded hard pack dirt roads. The Super Tenere is a pack mule. It simply does very many things well. Awhile back during a spring snowstorm I was running the Tenere up Cottonwood pass (the dirt 1/2) at a respectable clip and the bike handled great. And as a commuter, it does that well also.

Believe it or not, the road trip I just completed, I was averaging about 54 mpg. Speeds were anywhere from 50-65 mph.


Nothing but a few oil changes, a couple rear drive line oil changes, on my second set of tires. And a whole lotta' time sitting behind the handlebars just enjoying the bike while watching the scenery of Colorado go by.

The only complaint I have right now is the comfort of the seat could be better. It wasn't bad initially, but now it's just not working for me.

WJR

 

[creggur]

Yesterday and was out in one of my 300 mile Sunday rides. I rode about 100 miles to get where the real ride started followed by 40 miles of glorious sweepers, turns, and hills with no traffic or patrol cars anywhere in sight. The only thing I had to watch out for was an occasional cattle guard and of course cattle on the road since I was in open range country. Through the half way mark on the way back I had to make a quick decision. I had my fun on the pavement, should I go dirt for a big section of the way or should I stick to the freeway and get back home on time for dinner as I promised my wife? The Versys on dirt is a slow ride proposition since the bike is not really made for it. I wonder if I was riding the Tenere I was going to have to make the choice at all. I think not. However, I cannot keep the idea of the sweepers and twisties on the Explorer out of my mind. How much fun is the Tenere on the twisties? I did not have a chance to ride it on a real motorcycle road. Can I compare it with the nimble characteristics of my Versys? I don't think so. I want to know how much I will be giving up.

Never ridden a Versys, but I came off a Honda VFR800 that handled pretty darn well, and the Tenere (IMHO) blows it away. The factory suspension (though lacking for some) works pretty darn well for me. The power may seem a bit anemic at first, but once the power plant gets truly run in (I'm at 5k miles and apparently have about 3 to go before it really gets humming) it will pull like freight train out of a curve. I really started to notice the engine come into its own around the 4k mile point, and I tell ya, I think it's better with each ride now.

Is it endless, exotic-esque power like a 380 pound Liter Bike? No, but I've stayed right with some of those through twisty sections of road, and I'm no Rossi by any stretch of the imagination. It was funny to watch these guys in front of me hanging off, trying to drag a knee, working like mad, and I'm just sitting up all nice and comfy rolling through the curves with them. ::025:: Unless you're regularly riding in excess of 115 MPH the Tenere has more than enough pull to get you in all kinds of trouble.

 

[viewdvb]

Now I've had a chance to thrash it a bit solo (most of my riding is 2-up), I reckon that, without any changes to suspension other than dialing in a tad (1 click?) more damping front and rear and setting the rear preload to max, it handles well enough to push the only available road tyres to the limit (no sports rubber that fits unfortunately). Braking deep into corners doesn't upset the long travel too much and the quality of ride elsewhere helps keep the rubber in contact on the UK's badly maintained tarmac. It gives the most comfortable ride on these bad roads of any bike I've tried, including BMW and Triumph. That helps enormously in keeping up high average speeds. I pity the sports bike riders on our roads. Must cost them a fortune in chiropractics. On the other hand, I don't think I'll be doing any track days on it like I did on my Multistrada. Not because the handling and brakes aren't up to it nor because the engine would be an embarrassment; just because there is nothing but very ordinary road tyres in the S10 sizes and I wouldn't feel happy to push it any harder on anything but proper sprts tyres. As far as I know, only the KTM SM and the Multistrada have the necessary 17" wheels and neither is a 2-up touring bike like the S10.

 

[GrahamD]

Well after Phillip island Warnerbrother (ADV) had turned his Battle Wings into "battle scars" .

 

[creggur]

Now I've had a chance to thrash it a bit solo (most of my riding is 2-up), I reckon that, without any changes to suspension other than dialing in a tad (1 click?) more damping front and rear and setting the rear preload to max, it handles well enough to push the only available road tyres to the limit (no sports rubber that fits unfortunately). Braking deep into corners doesn't upset the long travel too much and the quality of ride elsewhere helps keep the rubber in contact on the UK's badly maintained tarmac. It gives the most comfortable ride on these bad roads of any bike I've tried, including BMW and Triumph. That helps enormously in keeping up high average speeds. I pity the sports bike riders on our roads. Must cost them a fortune in chiropractics. On the other hand, I don't think I'll be doing any track days on it like I did on my Multistrada. Not because the handling and brakes aren't up to it nor because the engine would be an embarrassment; just because there is nothing but very ordinary road tyres in the S10 sizes and I wouldn't feel happy to push it any harder on anything but proper sprts tyres. As far as I know, only the KTM SM and the Multistrada have the necessary 17" wheels and neither is a 2-up touring bike like the S10.

Ya never know - more, and more tire makers are moving into this segment's size - with the growth of popularity and these bikes being used as sport-touring replacements, we may get some softer rubber in the near future. Took my Pirelli Angel ST's beyond the limit on the VFR with no issue whatsoever. I'm guessing some quality sport-touring rubber on this thing would be a hoot on the track - you can only lean so far before too many hard parts start dragging anyway....

 

[Dallara]

~


Am I dating myself too much if I say I remember all too well when a 19" front wheel was just about standard on all high-performance street bikes, and that i did almost all my production road racing on bikes with 19" front/18" rear combos?

Of course, that was "back in the day" where Dunlop K-81's, K-181's, K-291's and Michelin M-45's were considered "high performance" street rubber!!! ???

Had a lot of fun grinding the cases on Honda CB750F's, 900F's, CBX's and Kawasaki Z-1 and KZ-1000's, though, on WERA road race circuits all over the Southwest! ::26::

Dallara



~

 

[GrahamD]

They also had much larger NADS back then as you can tell by the Deep voices...

Kawasaki AMA Superbike Laguna Seca 1979 Race

In Australia We raced one weekend and then went camping the next week... ::008::

1978 Castrol Six Hour Production Bike Race - Amaroo Park - Pt1

Listen to what they say at 00:10 onwards in part 2
1978 Castrol Six Hour Production Bike Race - Amaroo Park - Pt2


Thanks Dallara, I didn't know about all this until you mentioned it

 

[Rasher]

Just updated another Versys defector thread after a demo on one today

http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=5590.msg99981#msg99981

 

[viewdvb]

~


Am I dating myself too much if I say I remember all too well when a 19" front wheel was just about standard on all high-performance street bikes, and that i did almost all my production road racing on bikes with 19" front/18" rear combos?

Of course, that was "back in the day" where Dunlop K-81's, K-181's, K-291's and Michelin M-45's were considered "high performance" street rubber!!! ???

Had a lot of fun grinding the cases on Honda CB750F's, 900F's, CBX's and Kawasaki Z-1 and KZ-1000's, though, on WERA road race circuits all over the Southwest! ::26::

Dallara



~

Yeah, I remember those days too. Like the inadequate brakes, we didn't know or expect anything better. I damn sure wouldn't want to go back to those tyres now nor the brakes. I still don't get the classic bike freaks who prefer to ride outdated, bad handling, lousy braking, unreliable bikes and then claim that "they don't make em like that anymore". Thank God for that says !.

 

[Dallara]

Yeah, I remember those days too. Like the inadequate brakes, we didn't know or expect anything better. I damn sure wouldn't want to go back to those tyres now nor the brakes. I still don't get the classic bike freaks who prefer to ride outdated, bad handling, lousy braking, unreliable bikes and then claim that "they don't make em like that anymore". Thank God for that says !.

Didn't say I wanted to go back there... But by the same token, let's not forget that at that time those bikes were "state of the art", and the very best out there you could buy. Everything is relative. All I know is we had a ball racing those bikes, and I wouldn't know what I know about riding now if it had not been for those bikes, tires, etc. I wouldn't trade a nano-second of that time.

And there's really nothing wrong with a 19" front wheel... You can hustle pretty good with one.

Dallara



~

 

[3putt]

Interesting thread. I have never been on the Explorer, but had a 07 Tiger 1050 for 23,000 miles, Multistrata 1200 for 9000 miles and over a year. The Super Tenere is a reliable go to bike, kind of boring after the Duc, but the reliability more than makes up for it when you are more than a week of riding from home (Alaska). The farther I got from home the more conservative I became, so doubt I would have fully enjoyed the Multi12 if I had kept it for that ride.

I don't think any of us Super Tenere owners/riders fully appreciate the electronics on this bike and may never till we sell or move on, then we will miss it.

For me, the new Multi12 with the skyhook suspension (magnetic sachs) and dual spark plugs (Super Tenere already has dual spark, hmm) with increased smoothness and more torque would be the upgrade if I did not wish to go offroad much. Also like the 100 lb lighter Tiger 800xc, but have not ridden it.

I also think your level of DIY mods to a bike determines how much stuff you will accept as OEM or stock. I change stuff, clutch mod for the Super Tenere made me happy with the fueling. My eyes have been opened tho with the Street Triple that can rev beyond 12k rpm with smooth fueling and torque from 2k. I usually don't go pass 6k rpm on the Super Tenere by comparison.

 

[Bill929]

I've not ridden the Explorer, but sitting on it found it top heavy and just too large for my liking and ditto the Stelvio too large and heavy (I am inseam challenged). Yes, the ST is large (and heavy), but it seemed better balanced. Also, motorcycle consumer news did not like the Explorer's suspension - calling it second rate. I've ridden both the Tiger 800 and the 800 XC. I really like the 800, but not the XC, as its suspension wallowed on the road. For serious off road use, the XC would probably be a good choice, but for me I'd probably favor a much lighter bike for that type of riding.

No adventure bike in the garage yet, but I'm heavily leaning towards the ST for several reasons 1) Yamaha reliability, maintenance ease and dealer network (my Triumphs - I've had 3 - have been very reliable, but the dealer network is sketchy (2-3 hours in any direction) in the portion of the NC mountains where I do most of my summer riding); 2) Shaft drive - I'm a Guzzi rider and prefer shaft over chain (if you ride a lot of gravel w/ dusty roads you know how often you are cleaning that chain); 3) Torque - the ST has a lot more torque down low than the Tiger 800 - although Triumph's triple is a sweet engine and 4) Wind protection - the ST I rode had a Givi Air Flow screen and Yamaha wind deflectors which provided the best wind protection I've seen this side of a full touring bike. Just my opinion....

 

[scott123007]

Didn't say I wanted to go back there... But by the same token, let's not forget that at that time those bikes were "state of the art", and the very best out there you could buy. Everything is relative. All I know is we had a ball racing those bikes, and I wouldn't know what I know about riding now if it had not been for those bikes, tires, etc. I wouldn't trade a nano-second of that time.

And there's really nothing wrong with a 19" front wheel... You can hustle pretty good with one.

Dallara


Seems we've gotten off subject but since we're reminissing, I remember when the Dunlop Sport Elites first came out and what an improvement they were to the available rubber at the time...

On another note, I think part of the infatuation of riding classic or vintage roadrace bikes (or crusiers for that matter) is there is a segment of riders, be it ego or whatever, that are intimadated by just how effortlessly most current sportbikes handle, knowing that they on their best day, they are not even coming close to what the motorcycle is capable of doing. On older iron, or crusiers especially, the rider can at least feel like they are riding to the bikes limits, giving them the feeling of control over the bike, instead of the bike yawning and begging for more



~

 

[illustratedman]

I would discount the explorer completely based on dealer backup warranty requirements and quality of finish. I recently checked out two demo explorers and they were in a right state, loose panels etc and the 800 was terrible rust everywhere a tank panel held on by double sided tape, awful finish. I know demos can have a hard life but i've never seen a reasonably new bike look so bad. Here in the uk they use salt on the roads during the winter i dread to think what the bike would look like after that. This brings me to the warranty here in the uk, the manual states the bike should be washed after every ride, how are you supposed to do that then on a trip? if you dont it impacts warranty claims, what a joke. ::007::

 

[thfraser]

I've had two modern Triumphs now. Love the motor, those triples are excellent. However, as noted by others, the dealer network is slim and sometimes not that good. I've had my issues with the dealers. My wife hates the drive to the dealer, half the time, if not most of the time, they don't know much about the Triumph' s that they are selling. I won't buy another new triumph, unless the dealer is reasonable close and has a good reputation. IMO the service costs on the Triumphs are much higher than they should be. The 1050 triple motor almost never needs its valves adjusted, but they are supposed to be serviced every 12k miles at least $1,000 USA dollars a pop.

Summary - nice bikes, great motors, high service costs, spotty dealer network