groundhog
New Member
Re: Car Tires - What people think are the negatives or want to debate
I've used them..............on a car where they should be.
I've used them..............on a car where they should be.
Good Boygroundhog said:I've used them..............on a car where they should be.
You should be ashamed of yourself. There's no room in this debate for real world testing and experiences.loftybob said:I have logged up over 100,000 Km's using car tyres on my high performance, and touring bikes.
No troubles, no accidents, just massive grip, and no punctures.
My Triumphs are all insured with Shannons as having a car tyre fitted.
The only people that should be debating this, are the riders that have used them.
Let me put my comment of the CT not being the best at off tarmac riding in context.FredBGG said:I'm glad you mentioned this.
I have mentioned before that a car tire on a motorcycle is a problem due to the flat square profile because when hitting uneven surfaces it will move you off your line.
lets say you are riding and there are some pot holes and some crap from the pot holes on the road near those pot holes. Hitting anything that is not either at the center of the tire or covering
the whole witch of the tire the bike will be pushed around. This was one of the very first things I noticed when I tried out a bike with a car tire.
It could be quite a mess going over debris encounters on the road or a few rocks on a curve.
Now I'm not saying that it alone will kill you instantly just because of that. What I am saying is that it is a question of tipping points (pun intended).
We all know that sometimes we make it through/past something ... only just. make it. A CT on a motorbike is at least in part is not tipping things in your favor.
A car tire has its use, which is to help carry extra weight which no current motorcycle tire is able to do. It also has a use on a bike for Sidecars.Judd said:While Yellow Wolf might be an anomaly in so much as his speed on 129,,,,,, he is not an outlier at all when it comes to running a CT on a bike perfectly safely. Many, many people do it all the time, again,,,,, if you had an instance where a CT was the over riding cause of an accident,,,,, it would sweep the internet like a wild fire in Kalifornia. I've also noticed that most of the folks that tend to run a CT or at least try one are the more experienced riders.
A lot of people just don't have confidence in their abilities to ride much less to notice small changes and react to those changes. I can understand that completely because I was just like that many, many years ago when I was young and racing. I just "had to have" the "in tires". The tires the "fast guys" were running. There have been times when I couldn't run my preferred tires or the preferred I had on at the time were compromised due to wear or heat cycling and I was slower, not just a little bit slower,,,, a shit load slower. To the point of not making sense. Many, many people are like that because they ride with confidence in their equipment, not so much in their skills. Often, these folks don't have the ability to make mundane suspension changes much less hugely changing things up by swapping whole front ends or the like. The whole time I was racing, I was like that. I had to have the "in tire", I had to have the "experts" adjust my suspension for me and eventually, I grew the balls to make mundane damping and preload adjustments but I needed an expert to get me in the ball park. I did my best to start every race on newly scuffed tires,,,,,,,,, cost me a damned fortune for stupid plastic trophies.
I got hurt bad in a completely different accident {truck crash where I ended up with three fused vertabra, several cracked and damaged in addition. When the docs fixed my back, they stole my balls,,,,, when I came back, I was slow as hell. Never could get back to with-in a second of so of my pre wreck times. Completely lost my confidence and no matter what "in tires" I mounted, I couldn't replicate my times. I quit, quite riding completely for a few years then got back into it. Went right back to sportbikes and started doing trackdays immediately with in a month or two of starting back. Thing was, this time I was on a R1 and I just didn't have the money to waste on the "in tires" much less swapping them out all the timeso I started experimenting.
I generally didn't experiment too much with the front but I would try all manner of stuff on the rear. During a few years of track day experimentation I learned to adapt to less than perfect tires, especially on the rear. So what, your rear is a super hard endurance slick, just don't feed in as much throttle on the exits. So what that the tire you have out back was too soft, you over heated it and you are laying darkies outta every corner to the point of chunking big chunks off it, slow it down a couple of notches, maybe even come in early,,,, adapt and learn.
Saying that, I have tried all sorta combos on the track, the road and off tarmac that supposedly won't work but did. Sometimes the combos sucked, most times they were acceptable as long as you noted the limitations, at times the combo worked better than you woulda ever imagined. If you don't have the confidence and self control to experiment, don't. I just wish that those that don't wouldn't stretch the bubble gum with stories of the sky falling, nuns dying and kittens being maimed all because one supposed dumbass has the audacity to experiment. That crap about being worried one of those dumbass darksiders will run into the worry wart when their experiment inevitably goes haywire is just that,,,, crap.
When I first saw people running CTs, I thought they were crazy too. I just didn't feel the need to ridicule them, cross post on different forums and make up reasons of "public safety" as to why they were crazy. I just noted they were running them, asked a few questions and went along my way.
::026:: this is the most sensible post of this thread - so far ::012::RCinNC said:There's no room in this debate for real world testing and experiences.
So,,,, if a CT has a use on big bikes that carry a lot of weight and I am to assume it's safe in your opinion {you are the one that stated "A car tire has it's use"} carrying all that extra weight, why would it be so terribly wrong to use in in an application that doesn't fit your "has it's place"? There are other reasons to use a CT other than your two scenarios which according to your own post are- "bike and shit weighs a shitload" and "I'm a cheap bastard". For your information, I and many others did not try the CT because of your assumed "cheap bastard" reason, I tried it because I was going on a trip to Ecuador two up and loaded up like a som-bitch and there was not a single MT that would remotely fit my wheel that would last much more than 8K mile. The closest MT at the time that would come close to say,,, 8K miles when used in that application would have been a ME880. I have run ME880s and they suck, the CT is better in every application excepting low speed rough stuff. And yes, I know there places to buy a MT along the way. It's a PITA, I have been caught out more than once paying out the nose for a tire I really didn't even want in the 1st place simply because it was it was the only option short of getting shit shipped in or renting a truck/car and trailer. I hate procuring tires on the road so much, I generally carry a spare rear, since I was carrying my wife back there, that wasn't an option.shrekonwheels said:A car tire has its use, which is to help carry extra weight which no current motorcycle tire is able to do. It also has a use on a bike for Sidecars.
It should not be used for regular riding to simply "Extend the life of the tire cause I am a cheap bastard" anymore than someone should run their tires until they are bald, or use Knobbies on a street track or a Dunlop Qualifier on the dirt. Simply because it can be done, does not mean it should.
A CT Will have inherently poorer handling characteristics over a motorcycle tire, simply do to the profile. While some inexperienced people, or even those who grow used to them may not notice the deficient handling, it does not mean it is not there it absolutely is.
<snipped for brevity since my post is so danged long>
You forgot about the ability to pull wheel stands in the wet, superior braking performances, and did I mention the grip, the grip, ohh my Lordy, the grip.squarebore said:After reading all the threads, I have concluded there is only one reason you would put a CT on a two wheeled motorcycle, to save money.
If they last longer it is to save money.
They don't handle better.
They may handle worse.
Do what you like, but I've seen no evidence to suggest I would ever try it. If I can't afford the best tyres available, I can't afford to ride.
DC where are you? Do not recall an update for a while.dcstrom said:I can't believe this discussion goes on for 4 pages. The only place for car tires on a motorcycle is if it doesn't have to lean, like when there is a sidecar fitted. Otherwise, there is a really big clue in the phrase "car tires" - notice the first word?
This reinforces my suspicion - people who are advocating car tires for use on a solo motorcycle don't really know how to ride, so are not the best judge of tire performance. How do I know? "superior braking performances" Are you running a car tire on the front? If not you won't get much improvement in braking performance from a car tire on the rear - proper use of front brake means that due to weight transfer most of the braking occurs through the front tire, rear has little to do with it. Only if you are one of those riders who don't touch the front brake cos you're scared of flippin' it, would you think you get more braking from a CT on the rear.loftybob said:You forgot about the ability to pull wheel stands in the wet, superior braking performances, and did I mention the grip, the grip, ohh my Lordy, the grip.
Yep, still here! Armenia now, just spent a month in Iran. Will post a 100,000 mile update on the Super Tenere soon!BigBob said:DC where are you? Do not recall an update for a while.
::026:: Well said. That sums it all up perfectly !!dcstrom said:This reinforces my suspicion - people who are advocating car tires for use on a solo motorcycle don't really know how to ride, so are not the best judge of tire performance. How do I know? "superior braking performances" Are you running a car tire on the front? If not you won't get much improvement in braking performance from a car tire on the rear - proper use of front brake means that due to weight transfer most of the braking occurs through the front tire, rear has little to do with it. Only if you are one of those riders who don't touch the front brake cos you're scared of flippin' it, would you think you get more braking from a CT on the rear.
And Lordy, the grip... is only when you're upright, which implies that you don't really lean the bike very much in a corner, which implies... I'm sorry, but you don't know how to ride. Also, if for some reason you were talented enough to lean the bike a long way on a car tire, you really aren't going to get much grip because car tires are a completely different rubber compound... cheaper, harder, and not meant for motorcycles. Funny that!
I should add that I'm only talking about "normal" motorcycles here (since we are on the Super Tenere forum), not cruisers, choppers, drag bikes or anything along those lines. Never ridden one, no desire to, and the dynamics are such that I consider them dangerous even with the recommended tires. (As an aside... riding a KLR in Colorado mountains one time, a group of cruisers were holding me up... they all piled into a corner way too fast - and about 30mph slower than I wanted to go - and the corner tightened up, they all ran out of ground clearance and got spat off. Five of them. I spent the next hour helping them pick up the pieces.)
Actually, the rear braking is improved alot. So much so that I started using the rear brake alot more when I put the CT on my DL650. Still use the front primarily, just the added CT gives increased traction that can be taken advantage of sometimes.dcstrom said:This reinforces my suspicion - people who are advocating car tires for use on a solo motorcycle don't really know how to ride, so are not the best judge of tire performance. How do I know? "superior braking performances" Are you running a car tire on the front? If not you won't get much improvement in braking performance from a car tire on the rear - proper use of front brake means that due to weight transfer most of the braking occurs through the front tire, rear has little to do with it. Only if you are one of those riders who don't touch the front brake cos you're scared of flippin' it, would you think you get more braking from a CT on the rear.
And Lordy, the grip... is only when you're upright, which implies that you don't really lean the bike very much in a corner, which implies... I'm sorry, but you don't know how to ride. Also, if for some reason you were talented enough to lean the bike a long way on a car tire, you really aren't going to get much grip because car tires are a completely different rubber compound... cheaper, harder, and not meant for motorcycles. Funny that!
I should add that I'm only talking about "normal" motorcycles here (since we are on the Super Tenere forum), not cruisers, choppers, drag bikes or anything along those lines. Never ridden one, no desire to, and the dynamics are such that I consider them dangerous even with the recommended tires. (As an aside... riding a KLR in Colorado mountains one time, a group of cruisers were holding me up... they all piled into a corner way too fast - and about 30mph slower than I wanted to go - and the corner tightened up, they all ran out of ground clearance and got spat off. Five of them. I spent the next hour helping them pick up the pieces.)
No, they are not created equal and I have specifically noted that in other posts if you care to do a search but you can only get to so much when idiots are talking outta their asses on a subject they personally have no experience in. Do some searching on the subject and you will find whole forums and threads of specific bikes and what CT work well on them in actual, real world experiences. I find it interesting that some idiots think that any MT has to be better than any CT no matter the applicaton. If I had a choice of popping a ME880 out back or a CT like the one I had on my DL,,,, I'd pick the CT anyday. You wouldn't, because you haven't the set, skills or ability to do a little experimentation on your own. Expert says not to, "yes sir,,,,, I sho don't wants to get hurt cause da experts say I would fo sho."shrekonwheels said:I guess I find it interesting that those darksiders are mentioning ct brands, tread design or compounds, as if all CT tires are created equal.
Currently Working as a Maintenance tech, SO I plumb, Operate Heavy Equipment, which I also repair, Weld, Fab, hell I even trap and live trap Animals.Judd said:No, they are not created equal and I have specifically noted that in other posts if you care to do a search but you can only get to so much when idiots are talking outta their asses on a subject they personally have no experience in. Do some searching on the subject and you will find whole forums and threads of specific bikes and what CT work well on them in actual, real world experiences. I find it interesting that some idiots think that any MT has to be better than any CT no matter the applicaton. If I had a choice of popping a ME880 out back or a CT like the one I had on my DL,,,, I'd pick the CT anyday. You wouldn't, because you haven't the set, skills or ability to do a little experimentation on your own. Expert says not to, "yes sir,,,,, I sho don't wants to get hurt cause da experts say I would fo sho."