The BIG Dynojet PowerCommander V and AutoTune Q&A topic

[spasm]

Ill send you the map...... just plug it in and try it.... >

yeah ok bud cheers, i need an ecu 1st tho ::025:: mines gone walkies

 

[simmons1]

I just loaded a map with 12,6 values like Jaxon's and man the bike is fast! I am getting a bit confused now, since my impression was that 13,2 did better that 13,0 the last time I tried. But now with 12,6 in the biggest part of the map the machine feels stronger than ever before. Just did a 30 kilometer ride.

The downside is that it uses more petrol than the Exxon Valdez was leaking.... Doing 130 km/h which is about 81 mph it gobbles 1 liter every 13,8 kilometers.... switching to T-mode doesn't make it drink less....

Wow that is less than 30 Miles per US gallon!

 

[Blue_eyes]

Wow that is less than 30 Miles per US gallon!

And fuel here is US$ 8.63 per gallon ! :'(

You are lucky f@ckers!

 

[jajpko]

I was able to confirm (service manual) there is an air pressure sensor that checks ambient pressure. This in conjunction with the temperature sensor applies a correction to the fueling when in open-loop (as it should). Thus a sea-level map, though not perfect, is still getting an adjustment applied for elevation. Anyway, fuel injected bikes before O2 sensors ran open-loop all the time and still adjusted for these conditions.

Also, closed-loop is only entered when running at stable conditions such as steady RPM, throttle position and engine at operating temperature. During erratic throttle and RPM the ECU is forced to do a table look-up of pre-calibrated values to apply to fueling (influenced by the pressure and temperature sensors) because the O2 is fluctuating wildly and not to be relied upon.

I'm not sure I understand the last part. Do you mean the ECU will look at it's own values and not the AFR values that we have entered in the PC? Also when I wick it up through the gears, the bike is not looking at the closed loop?

 

[simmons1]

And fuel here is US$ 8.63 per gallon ! :'(

You are lucky f@ckers!

Very true, but at that mileage there are a lot places in the Western United States you would run of gas before you could reach the next gas station.

 

[jajpko]

Very true, but at that mileage there are a lot places in the Western United States you would run of gas before you could reach the next gas station.

Yep, there needs to be a happy medium between raw power and usability.

 

[Omaha Tenere]

And now imagine adding the same effect to what you have now, by doing a Diapason Flash.... ::001:: ::26::

Are you still with us? ::015::

I am thinking the Diapason flash is in my future as well (better start doing hand curls to strangthen up the fingers) but timing ofSpring and finances will be the determining factors. After the upgrades and accessories that i am currently installing, I need to let the bank account heal some.

--Rob

 

[simmons1]

Yep, there needs to be a happy medium between raw power and usability.

Exactly. If people were looking for raw power then buying the Tenere was the wrong choice of bike.

 

[Blue_eyes]

Exactly. If people were looking for raw power then buying the Tenere was the wrong choice of bike.

An S10 with this amount of power all over da place is exactly my right choice! ::025::

Love it! ::022::

 

[spasm]

An S10 with this amount of power all over da place is exactly my right choice! ::025::

Love it! ::022::

::026:: every bike ive ever owned, ive tried to get as much power out of it as possible ::022:: ::022::

 

[~TABASCO~]

Exactly. If people were looking for raw power then buying the Tenere was the wrong choice of bike.

Yep...

Not directed at you Rich, Keep the closed loop turned down. Don't hot rod the optimizer and run something like 5's and you will still get 40's.... That is in the area most people ride down the high way... Your still working with 13.6 ish... This will allow the bike to still be responsive with mods but let you get mileage for open high way, Etc... Running this 12.8 / 12.6 out side the closed loop will decrease mileage but the ride does not need to go down the high way at 6-7-8 K RPM's So the riders that do this are in full control over reasonable fuel economy with closed loop, or you beat on it and have great power and run out side the closed loop..... Right now, I have a really nice happy medium....... Someone is going to post some new "fun" facts about the optimizer sometime today...... More power for people that just want power !!!! Sounds FUuuuun... O

 

[Blue_eyes]

Yummm Yummm gimme all that power! ::014:: ::014:: ::014::

 

[YamaPA]

THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED ON 1/12/2012 DUE TO INFORMATION PROVIDED BY DYNOJET ENGINEERS IN POST 165. THE ORIGINAL CONTENTS OF THIS POST REQUIRING REVISION REMAIN AND NOW HIGHLIGHTED IN BEIGE. THE REVISED CONTENTS ARE NOW HIGHTLIGHTED IN YELLOW

Here are the more fun facts Jaxon eluded to....

I had a conversation with a particular DynoJet tech person today who has been recommended by Jaxon in the past. I contacted him to clear some things up about the PCV, AT, optimizers, closed loop, etc. He is what I learned/reaffirmed. Some of this may be known to some, some of it I believe is completely new to everyone. I dont do this for a living, I didnt sleep at a Holiday Inn last night, I take no responsibility for your actions, you cant sue me because I said so, etc. Here you go........

1. DynoJet says that in MOST cases, an AFR of 13.0 to 13.2 will yield maximum power for a bike. DynoJet after finding the AFR which yields the most power for a bike will assign that AFR to the open loop portion of ALL maps for that model bike. There is no tweaking between low and high rpm, throttle position, etc. This is not to say that DynoJet's research for the maximum power AFR for a model bike is the same as what the manufacture of the bike came up with. In other words, DynoJet may say 13.2 to 1 but Yamaha came up with 12.9 to 1 or something else. This MAY be the very reason why we are seeing the PCVs overall fuel table showing more negative numbers than posite numbers. Yamaha may have speced the bike with very rich numbers in the open loop area. DynoJet may not have done all their research on this bike and it's dyno work. They may be close or they could be off. Who knows and go figure. What works for YOU is what is important. As I said before, until you have numerous well prepared maps and lots of dyno time to compare those maps on the same day, you will not know exactly what AFR produces the most power.


2. DynoJet says that MOST manufacturers will have a closed loop AFR around 14.6 to 1, and open loop AFR that yields maximum power. DynoJet's optomizers for the Tenere are configured to operate the closed loop at 13.6 to 1. This is a hard and fast number confirmed with Dynojet. There is NOTHING YOU CAN DO (until I explain later of course) to the DynoJet optomizers, PCV, AT, fuel table, etc. that will change that 13.6 to 1 number. The DynoJet optomizers ALWAYS try to strive to obtain 13.6 to 1 in the closed loop...ALWAYS MEANS ALWAYS. As stated above, DynoJet says that most manufacturers have their closed loop around 14.6 to 1. In the case of the Tenere, the DynoJet optomizers are richer than the stock Tenere configuration. In SOME MODEL bikes, the Tenere seemingly being one of them, when you install DynoJet optomizers which request a richer fuel mixture in closed loop than the stock configuration, the stock ECU cannot supply/adjust as much as necessary to meet the richer fuel mixture specification....this is why DynoJet has said "put some numbers in the fuel table map of the closed loop area ranging from 0 - 10". What this does it tells the PCV to add fuel to the closed loop specifications, but the system will still strive to obtain the 13.6 to 1 AFR being specified by the DynoJet optomizers. You could put numbers as high as 50 in the closed loop area on the DynoJet fuel map, but the optomizers will always try to achieve the specified 13.6 to 1 AFR...and WILL DO SO after 2 seconds...which is the time it takes for whole system to adjust "things" at a certain RPM and throttle position. Basically, by placing numbers in the fuel table in the closed loop area, you are ensuring that there is enough fuel being supplied to meet the specified 13.6 to 1 AFR for the closed loop. For example, let's say through testing that we know for 100% fact that the Tenere requires the addition of 5 "units" of fuel to achieve the 13.6 to 1 AFR. If you were to put a 3 in the closed loop area, that would not be enough fuel to satisfy the 13.6 to 1 AFR....you would be 2 units short. If you put in a 5, you are spot on. But since we dont know for sure what the number is (we are talking reality here), we put in an 8, and we are 3 units high, and the system corrects itself to achieve 13.6 to 1 AFR. There really is no harm in being high with your numbers in the closed loop area of the fuel map. I specifically asked DynoJet if using high numbers would cause the system to work "harder" and the answer was pretty much "NO". So feel free to place a 7 or 10 in the closed loop if you really want to be certain to have access to that 13.6 to 1 AFR for closed loop. Remember the reason we are doing this is because the stock ECU cannot adjust enough by itself to meet the new 13.6 to 1 AFR as stipulated by the DynoJet optimizers.

3. As eluded to above, the DynoJet optimizers CAN BE CONFIGURED TO AFRs OTHER THAN 13.6 TO 1. Yes, you read that correctly. And yes, above I said you can't do anything to change the configured optimizers. I lie or I get to you read further and become edjumacated. You come here for hard hitting facts, and that's' what we deliver. Here is how it's done. First, understand that not all PCVs come with optimizers. In some model bikes, optimizers are an optional purchase. In other cases, optimizers can be configured by opening them up and selecting/repositioning various dip switches to achieve difference AFRs for the closed loop. In still other cases, optimizers can be configured by simple USB connection to the MOST CURRENT DynoJet software. The later is the case for the Tenere. The optimizer control unit for the Tenere has a USB port....simply access the port, plug in a USB cable, plug in your "normal" USB connection for the PCV, and start your DynoJet tuning software. You need to have both cables connected to your computer. Across the top menu bar, select "O2 optimizer", select "configure" and you are there. A slider bar will appear with numbers positive and negative. Positive richens the mixture (lower AFR number) and negative leans the mixture (higher AFR number). If you select +2 you will richen the closed loop optimizer value from the standard 13.6 to 1 to 13.4 to 1. If you select -4, you lean the mixture to 14.0 to 1.

To adjust closed loop has been explained fairly well in earlier posts. What you are adjusting is the voltage of the offset of the Optimizer. A +15 would be 15mv higher than our standard settings. In my testing I have found that a +10-15 normally gets you +.3 of a AFR. So it would go from 13.8 to 13.5. Again, this varies from bike to bike.

Just keep in mind that whatever AFR you select for the closed loop area, that AFR applies to the ENTIRE closed loop area. NO EXCEPTIONS. Whether or not you decide to play with AFRs in the closed loop are up to you. Personally, I really don't see much value here because, well, if I want to go fast, I twist the throttle, and that action takes you out of closed loop because of throttle position you have requested which is outside closed loop control. The only reason to access this area for closed loop is if you want increased fuel mileage when in closed loop during cruise mode. If you want, go test out 13.8, 14.0, maybe even 14.2 to 1 AFRs and observe for surging of the bike. If its not surging, your probably good to go for increased mileage. Remember, most likely, Yamaha was at 14.6 to 1 in the closed loop so even at 14.2 to 1 you are still richer than stock.

4. As far as synchronzing the throttle goes....due to the fly by wire nature of the throttle on the Tenere, there remains some uncertainty as to whether you can sync the throttle for both the low end and the high end correctly without the use of dyno. Some say you can, some say you can't. DynoJet was not able to give me an accurate answer for the Tenere at the time of discusion (I didnt want him to look it up and take more time from the tech), but they did say that most of the recent Yamaha fly by wire throttles CANNOT be set at the high end unless the engine is spinning above a certain RPM. Such can only be achieved on a dyno or a good burnout in your garage! You CAN sync the low end without the use of dyno. If you dont have a dyno, and you need to sync your throttle, play it safe and only do the low end. Finally, you only have to sync the low end IF AND ONLY I, your completely warmed up bike, once connected to the DynoJet software, shows something other than 0% throttle when the throttle is at rest. If you show 1100 rpms and 0% throttle, your low end of throttle is synced correctly....dont mess with it.

 

[Maybert]

Here are the more fun facts Jaxon eluded to....

I had a conversation with a particular DynoJet tech person today who has been recommended by Jaxon in the past. I contacted him to clear some things up about the PCV, AT, optimizers, closed loop, etc. He is what I learned/reaffirmed. Some of this may be known to some, some of it I believe is completely new to everyone. I dont do this for a living, I didnt sleep at a Holiday Inn last night, I take no responsibility for your actions, you cant sue me because I said so, etc. Here you go........

1. DynoJet says that in MOST cases, an AFR of 13.0 to 13.2 will yield maximum power for a bike. DynoJet after finding the AFR which yields the most power for a bike will assign that AFR to the open loop portion of ALL maps for that model bike. There is no tweaking between low and high rpm, throttle position, etc. This is not to say that DynoJet's research for the maximum power AFR for a model bike is the same as what the manufacture of the bike came up with. In other words, DynoJet may say 13.2 to 1 but Yamaha came up with 12.9 to 1 or something else. This MAY be the very reason why we are seeing the PCVs overall fuel table showing more negative numbers than posite numbers. Yamaha may have speced the bike with very rich numbers in the open loop area. DynoJet may not have done all their research on this bike and it's dyno work. They may be close or they could be off. Who knows and go figure. What works for YOU is what is important. As I said before, until you have numerous well prepared maps and lots of dyno time to compare those maps on the same day, you will not know exactly what AFR produces the most power.


2. DynoJet says that MOST manufacturers will have a closed loop AFR around 14.6 to 1, and open loop AFR that yields maximum power. DynoJet's optomizers for the Tenere are configured to operate the closed loop at 13.6 to 1. This is a hard and fast number confirmed with Dynojet. There is NOTHING YOU CAN DO (until I explain later of course) to the DynoJet optomizers, PCV, AT, fuel table, etc. that will change that 13.6 to 1 number. The DynoJet optomizers ALWAYS try to strive to obtain 13.6 to 1 in the closed loop...ALWAYS MEANS ALWAYS. As stated above, DynoJet says that most manufacturers have their closed loop around 14.6 to 1. In the case of the Tenere, the DynoJet optomizers are richer than the stock Tenere configuration. In SOME MODEL bikes, the Tenere seemingly being one of them, when you install DynoJet optomizers which request a richer fuel mixture in closed loop than the stock configuration, the stock ECU cannot supply/adjust as much as necessary to meet the richer fuel mixture specification....this is why DynoJet has said "put some numbers in the fuel table map of the closed loop area ranging from 0 - 10". What this does it tells the PCV to add fuel to the closed loop specifications, but the system will still strive to obtain the 13.6 to 1 AFR being specified by the DynoJet optomizers. You could put numbers as high as 50 in the closed loop area on the DynoJet fuel map, but the optomizers will always try to achieve the specified 13.6 to 1 AFR...and WILL DO SO after 2 seconds...which is the time it takes for whole system to adjust "things" at a certain RPM and throttle position. Basically, by placing numbers in the fuel table in the closed loop area, you are ensuring that there is enough fuel being supplied to meet the specified 13.6 to 1 AFR for the closed loop. For example, let's say through testing that we know for 100% fact that the Tenere requires the addition of 5 "units" of fuel to achieve the 13.6 to 1 AFR. If you were to put a 3 in the closed loop area, that would not be enough fuel to satisfy the 13.6 to 1 AFR....you would be 2 units short. If you put in a 5, you are spot on. But since we dont know for sure what the number is (we are talking reality here), we put in an 8, and we are 3 units high, and the system corrects itself to achieve 13.6 to 1 AFR. There really is no harm in being high with your numbers in the closed loop area of the fuel map. I specifically asked DynoJet if using high numbers would cause the system to work "harder" and the answer was pretty much "NO". So feel free to place a 7 or 10 in the closed loop if you really want to be certain to have access to that 13.6 to 1 AFR for closed loop. Remember the reason we are doing this is because the stock ECU cannot adjust enough by itself to meet the new 13.6 to 1 AFR as stipulated by the DynoJet optimizers.

3. As eluded to above, the DynoJet optimizers CAN BE CONFIGURED TO AFRs OTHER THAN 13.6 TO 1. Yes, you read that correctly. And yes, above I said you can't do anything to change the configured optimizers. I lie or I get to you read further and become edjumacated. You come here for hard hitting facts, and that's' what we deliver. Here is how it's done. First, understand that not all PCVs come with optimizers. In some model bikes, optimizers are an optional purchase. In other cases, optimizers can be configured by opening them up and selecting/repositioning various dip switches to achieve difference AFRs for the closed loop. In still other cases, optimizers can be configured by simple USB connection to the MOST CURRENT DynoJet software. The later is the case for the Tenere. The optimizer control unit for the Tenere has a USB port....simply access the port, plug in a USB cable, plug in your "normal" USB connection for the PCV, and start your DynoJet tuning software. You need to have both cables connected to your computer. Across the top menu bar, select "O2 optimizer", select "configure" and you are there. A slider bar will appear with numbers positive and negative. Positive richens the mixture (lower AFR number) and negative leans the mixture (higher AFR number). If you select +2 you will richen the closed loop optimizer value from the standard 13.6 to 1 to 13.4 to 1. If you select -4, you lean the mixture to 14.0 to 1. Just keep in mind that whatever AFR you select for the closed loop area, that AFR applies to the ENTIRE closed loop area. NO EXCEPTIONS. Whether or not you decide to play with AFRs in the closed loop are up to you. Personally, I really don't see much value here because, well, if I want to go fast, I twist the throttle, and that action takes you out of closed loop because of throttle position you have requested which is outside closed loop control. The only reason to access this area for closed loop is if you want increased fuel mileage when in closed loop during cruise mode. If you want, go test out 13.8, 14.0, maybe even 14.2 to 1 AFRs and observe for surging of the bike. If its not surging, your probably good to go for increased mileage. Remember, most likely, Yamaha was at 14.6 to 1 in the closed loop so even at 14.2 to 1 you are still richer thatn stock.

4. As far as synchronzing the throttle goes....due to the fly by wire nature of the throttle on the Tenere, there remains some uncertainty as to whether you can sync the throttle for both the low end and the high end correctly without the use of dyno. Some say you can, some say you can't. DynoJet was not able to give me an accurate answer for the Tenere at the time of discusion (I didnt want him to look it up and take more time from the tech), but they did say that most of the recent Yamaha fly by wire throttles CANNOT be set at the high end unless the engine is spinning above a certain RPM. Such can only be achieved on a dyno or a good burnout in your garage! You CAN sync the low end without the use of dyno. If you dont have a dyno, and you need to sync your throttle, play it safe and only do the low end. Finally, you only have to sync the low end IF AND ONLY I, your completely warmed up bike, once connected to the DynoJet software, shows something other than 0% throttle when the throttle is at rest. If you show 1100 rpms and 0% throttle, your low end of throttle is synced correctly....dont mess with it.

Fantastic post, thanks for taking the time write that up. I just hooked up the optimizer and will trying out some new closed loop AFRs.

Cheers!

 

[Omaha Tenere]

That's great info! Thanks for the write up.

--Rob

 

[Omaha Tenere]

I have a question about the PC software. The AFR that is displayed on the screen is what the AT is seeing if installed or the Optimizer? I ask because the red light blinks and goes steady on the AT when starting the bike and remains on once warm as it should. But, on the PC software screen in the lower right I only get a green light for the PCV. The light for the AT Running section is not lit. I did check the config and AT has the check box enabled so I think it is working, maybe?

--Rob

 

[jajpko]

Fantastic post, thanks for taking the time write that up. I just hooked up the optimizer and will trying out some new closed loop AFRs.

Cheers!

Let us know how that works for you and if you notice a difference. I'm sure you will, but I'm not sure Dynojet was correct on the closed loop numbers.
As soon as it stops raining I'll do a test to see if I'm right.

 

[YamaPA]

I have a question about the PC software. The AFR that is displayed on the screen is what the AT is seeing if installed or the Optimizer? I ask because the red light blinks and goes steady on the AT when starting the bike and remains on once warm as it should. But, on the PC software screen in the lower right I only get a green light for the PCV. The light for the AT Running section is not lit. I did check the config and AT has the check box enabled so I think it is working, maybe?

--Rob

Quite honestly, I dont look at the lights much, in fact, I never look at the lights, so someone else is going to have to provide the answer. Sorry.

 

[YamaPA]

Let us know how that works for you and if you notice a difference. I'm sure you will, but I'm not sure Dynojet was correct on the closed loop numbers.As soon as it stops raining I'll do a test to see if I'm right.

To the highlighted portion of the post.......I hear what you are saying. There is thought that the numbers you place in the fuel table change the actual AFR of the closed loop. For example, the closed loop with the DynoJet optomizers operates at 13.6 to 1. This is a confirmed, no doubt about it number. If you place say a 4 in the closed loop area, the "other camp" says that you take 13.6 minus 4 (you have a +4 "units" of fuel being added ...richening things up) which yields a 13.2 AFR for the closed loop. If you place a 7 in the closed loop area, the "other camp" says that you take 13.6 minus 7 yields a 12.9 AFR for the closed loop. I know the semantics of plus and minus in this case looks just wierd...but the numbers are the numbers.

The above is the MAIN REASON I called DynoJet today. I was under that impression and was in the "other camp", but DynoJet now says otherwise...at least based on my conversation. Like I said above...I didnt sleep at Holiday Inn last night and you cant sue me.

Disclosure: Japako and myself just had about a one hour conversation on the above before he posted and I responded. We have some ideas on how to "test" this and will be posting more in the future on the subject.

 

[~TABASCO~]

Awesome !! Looking forward to this test..... Sure the hell feels different between 2-5-7-10..... FO SHO ! ::025::