Tenere 660 Coming to USA

[advswede1981]

::009::

I really don't get it... I used to own a KLR before I wise'd up and got my tenere. The KLR is slow, no get-up at all, tugs along screaming on the interstate (which it will do all day as long as you keep an eye on the oil level...), too heavy for any serious off-road use, and overall pretty damn boring. Oh yes... it's inexpensive, fun to farkle out, and have millions of online threads where people will talk it up for reasons beyond my understanding. Do I sound bitter yet lol?

The thing is, in my humble opinion of course... 650cc type bikes are too slow and generally too unresponsive for exciting adventure touring, yet too big for serious trail riding. I'd pick one or the other... DRZ400 or a stripped down and beat up XR650 for trail use or a BMW 800GS or bigger for adventure touring. It would be insane to pay anywhere near 9k for bike in the 600cc range...

 

[JaimeV]

What Jaume is doing to his baby ten is fantastic , but absolutely not neccessary. All it needs is a bash plate and a set of knobbies. That is, imo, one hell of a bike. All it needs is something like 60-70 ponies to be perfect.
It comfy, great ergos, rally look as standard equipment, big tank, decent suspension, great ground clearance, solid two up mile muncher etc...
70hp and I would sell my s10 in an instant.

©

Pick a 660, change the exhaust, put a DNA filter or similar and a Power Commander and you are going to improve arount 7HP and an immediate motor response. The bike changes completely.
A decent bash plate and few more things and it's the perfect adventure bike.

But if you are an odd guy like me it could be like this: :-\ http://traildreamer.com/en/category/tenere-660/

 

[markjenn]

The thing is, in my humble opinion of course... 650cc type bikes are too slow and generally too unresponsive for exciting adventure touring, yet too big for serious trail riding. I'd pick one or the other... DRZ400 or a stripped down and beat up XR650 for trail use or a BMW 800GS or bigger for adventure touring.

You make some good points, but I have a DRZ and have used it for 10-day adventure tours and have ridden a KLR extensively too. The difference between a DRZ and a KLR on the highway is profound. At 70mph, a DRZ is revving to the moon and the seat is the width of a 2x4. The KLR, if you're doing a true mix of interstate, two-lane, graded forest service roads, and snooty roads, is still probably the best compromise overall in a very wide-range adventure bike and they're cheap, reliable, and well-supported. It's much more manageable in the really snotty stuff than any 800cc adv bike and much more comfortable than any 400/450cc enduro/trail bike. Notice the word "compromise". The 660 would be an even better compromise.

- Mark

 

[JaimeV]

You are right Mark.
I have a DRZ-E and I love it. If I had to decide to have a single bike probably I choose it. I'm doing enduro and I have a bigger tank and wider seat for long trips but even like this the difference with the 660 is huge.
Also if you have luggage there is not enough space and power in the DRZ.

 

[johnpitts01]

I've had Honda XR 650 L, Kawasaki KLR 650 (old and new versions), currently have a Yamaha WR250R and the Super Tenere. Have ridden 660Z for 4 days in Germany and will do 2 weeks on a 660Z in Namibia Feb 2014.
Have ridden for very brief rids KTM 950, 990 and 690.

Gotta say the ideal bike for me would be a 450 with a good subframe that would allow mounting some luggage or panniers. Something about the same weight as my WR250R.

 

[advswede1981]

You make some good points, but I have a DRZ and have used it for 10-day adventure tours and have ridden a KLR extensively too. The difference between a DRZ and a KLR on the highway is profound. At 70mph, a DRZ is revving to the moon and the seat is the width of a 2x4. The KLR, if you're doing a true mix of interstate, two-lane, graded forest service roads, and snooty roads, is still probably the best compromise overall in a very wide-range adventure bike and they're cheap, reliable, and well-supported. It's much more manageable in the really snotty stuff than any 800cc adv bike and much more comfortable than any 400/450cc enduro/trail bike. Notice the word "compromise". The 660 would be an even better compromise.

- Mark

I appreciate the response but I'm thinking my point is being missed, which is that in my experience the 600cc range bikes are too small for serious adventure touring and too big for any real off-road work. They seem to miss the mark, and paying anywhere near 8-10k for a bike like that seems to target a very small group of riders. KLRs are still around because they are inexpensive, reliable, and carry some notoriety. As far as I know the BMW 650GS is doing poorly in sales. I'm curious, but why would the tenere "mini" do any better?

 

[EricV]

If you look at BMW's lineup, and the way that the Japanese brands are headed (honda), it would appear that this price may be the case, as there will likely be a 3 tiered ADV bike setup. The 700, the 900, and the 1200. They will like use the mt-07, mt-09 motors, and that would put them in competition with the 700gs and 800gs, so the prices are likely to be competitive with those. The 700gs lists at $9900, and the 800gs at $12k with the 800gsa at $13,500. I imagine that the divide between prices will grow as the size of the bike goes up, with the 1200's having the widest gap between their prices. How is that for a theory?

You're a little off base there. I'm not sure where you see this huge ADV market that supports all these bikes. Yamaha takes a very critical eye to the market and is often slow to bring bikes to the US. Even the Super Ten only came here on a PDP plan to begin with.

Admittedly, I'm not one that sees the allure of a single cylinder, heavy for it's class bike with a higher price point. I'd love to see a shaft drive 500 lb ADV bike. The TDM 850 and 750/800 Super Tenere bikes had a strong following in the rest of the world. Re-making that in a modern EFI, shaft drive bike that appeals to both the ADV and Standard market could have much wider sales potential than bringing the XT660 to the US. We vote with our wallets and I just don't see people spending the extra money for the 660. As I've said before, historically, Yamaha big singles are loved by those that buy them, but don't sell well in the US.

@Johnpitts01 - I'm going to guess that you pack very light compared to most. Load up a 450 with the kind of loads we see in the US for multi-day travel and it wouldn't survive much pavement use. Not everyone wants, or is willing to travel that light and wants to stick to the off pavement routes and back roads. Despite that being what a handy, light ADV bike would do best.

 

[Combo]

You make some good points, but I have a DRZ and have used it for 10-day adventure tours and have ridden a KLR extensively too. The difference between a DRZ and a KLR on the highway is profound. At 70mph, a DRZ is revving to the moon and the seat is the width of a 2x4. The KLR, if you're doing a true mix of interstate, two-lane, graded forest service roads, and snooty roads, is still probably the best compromise overall in a very wide-range adventure bike and they're cheap, reliable, and well-supported. It's much more manageable in the really snotty stuff than any 800cc adv bike and much more comfortable than any 400/450cc enduro/trail bike. Notice the word "compromise". The 660 would be an even better compromise.

- Mark

I will agree with you Mark. I think you are spot on with your comments. I have had a KLR since 2006 and it has been a great bike for the price and what it can do but would go for a 660 in a heart beat. With that said I would also like to see Yamaha bring a 800-900cc ADV bike to the floor. Cover the range as if they are really taking on BMW like they did with the Super Tenere.

 

[autoteach]

You're a little off base there. I'm not sure where you see this huge ADV market that supports all these bikes. Yamaha takes a very critical eye to the market and is often slow to bring bikes to the US. Even the Super Ten only came here on a PDP plan to begin with.

Admittedly, I'm not one that sees the allure of a single cylinder, heavy for it's class bike with a higher price point. I'd love to see a shaft drive 500 lb ADV bike. The TDM 850 and 750/800 Super Tenere bikes had a strong following in the rest of the world. Re-making that in a modern EFI, shaft drive bike that appeals to both the ADV and Standard market could have much wider sales potential than bringing the XT660 to the US. We vote with our wallets and I just don't see people spending the extra money for the 660. As I've said before, historically, Yamaha big singles are loved by those that buy them, but don't sell well in the US.

I understand what you are saying, that is why I don't think they will bring the 660 single. the 700 is a twin. I guess I was leaning towards there being a modular thought with base engines and some shared components among the lineup. Like an 850 triple sport, naked, adventure, etc. I don't think that this is out of the question, as it is the method that Honda is using to bring motorcycling to the masses at low prices. The difference between what we hope for and what honda is doing is actual usability of the bike. Honda does not have a real adventure bike. The closest thing is the xr650. Oh well, it is all bullshit until it happens, but your theory is as good as any at this point as this thread is just conjecture.

 

[snakebitten]

I totally agree, and it comes as no surprise around here, that Yamaha aimed directly at the GSA 1200 with the Super Tenere. And for me, there couldn't have been a more desirable target.

And although I find the unobtainable 660 Tenere appealing, I would much more be smitten by a Yamaha aimed directly at the other GSA.

It would suffice to use the new twin and chain. But it would probably get more world press herald with that triple and shaft.

As for price? I really don't know why it should cost much less than the big girl just because of the fewer cubic centimeters. If it is built to the same quality and and appointments as the XT1200Z, then it should likely cost similar to produce. I know I wouldn't object to the worlds greatest 800-850cc ADV (non poser) costing 12-13K.

 

[EricV]

I understand what you are saying, that is why I don't think they will bring the 660 single. the 700 is a twin. I guess I was leaning towards there being a modular thought with base engines and some shared components among the lineup. Like an 850 triple sport, naked, adventure, etc. I don't think that this is out of the question, as it is the method that Honda is using to bring motorcycling to the masses at low prices. The difference between what we hope for and what honda is doing is actual usability of the bike. Honda does not have a real adventure bike. The closest thing is the xr650. Oh well, it is all bullshit until it happens, but your theory is as good as any at this point as this thread is just conjecture.

I certainly agree about the potential if they took a modular viewpoint. Sadly, you don't see that as often as you would think. Engineers really like to re-invent the wheel sometimes.

On the F700. Yes, I am intimately aware of that family of bikes. One resides in the garage. Suffice to say, I didn't buy it, the wife did and if you'd like to be shown why BMW should hang their heads in shame and hang all of their staff, just PM me. Nothing about that bike is done well. And it's 798cc displacement, just like the F650GS (twin) before it and the F800GS... Only the first of many failings about that family of bikes.

 

[snakebitten]

Thus an even easier target for Yamaha to swoop in and raise the bar in the 800cc ADV realm.

 

[EricV]

Thus an even easier target for Yamaha to swoop in and raise the bar in the 800cc ADV realm.

You sir, are correct.

If they kept the weight and seat height down, and gave it shaft drive, it would dominate the market and there would be a flood of F(insert imaginary number here)00GS and XC800s on the used market.

 

[autoteach]

I certainly agree about the potential if they took a modular viewpoint. Sadly, you don't see that as often as you would think. Engineers really like to re-invent the wheel sometimes.

On the F700. Yes, I am intimately aware of that family of bikes. One resides in the garage. Suffice to say, I didn't buy it, the wife did and if you'd like to be shown why BMW should hang their heads in shame and hang all of their staff, just PM me. Nothing about that bike is done well. And it's 798cc displacement, just like the F650GS (twin) before it and the F800GS... Only the first of many failings about that family of bikes.

The 700 twin to which I refer is the mt-07 yamaha. http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2013/11/yamaha-introduces-mt-07-lightweight-affordable-689cc-twin/

 

[True Grip]

Yamaha is on a roll. Love that motor and notice the weight 394lbs. I think Yamaha was not sitting on their hands during this global downturn. They are after our money. Sneaky Devils

 

[EricV]

The 700 twin to which I refer is the mt-07 yamaha. http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2013/11/yamaha-introduces-mt-07-lightweight-affordable-689cc-twin/

Thanks Autoteach, I totally missed that press release or any reference to the MT-07 as a bike that was more than fantasy. Neat naked bike. Seems pretty small displacement for loading up with panniers and hitting the road, imho. You could go Giant Loop and Visa card traveling and the light weight would be a real perk off pavement.

I mainly use my bike to go places. It stays loaded with the exception of clothes all the time. I guess I'm too old and fat to want to travel as minimal as a 700 would require any more. As it is, I often only pack one tee shirt, some socks and a pair of pants for a week long ride. It's all the other stuff that I don't want to do with out. The stuff that means I self recover rather than call for a tow. It also means I go slower off pavement.

 

[snakebitten]

Well, we gotta give up SOMETHING, to get a "smaller" Tenere.

If it's lighter (everyone says they want it to be) smaller displacement (everyone says they want it to be) and more agile off-road (everyone says they want it to be), then I suspect it will have less cargo capacity.

Me? I think Yamaha has a tall order to build a junior Tenere that I will choose over the Big Girl, even when I'm heading out solo.

They could do it. I got "how" in my head. Lol. But I'm not sure its what everybody else is looking for.

It would LOOK almost identical. Especially at a glance. But look closely and it is an inch or two taller. (yea baby) And that very similar looking twin motor is about ⅔ the displacement. Any weight loss comes with the cargo capacity dropping to solo-pack mule vs the massive XT1200Z 2-up pack mule. Doubt they could shave 100lbs and stay drive-shaft.

 

[autoteach]

Well, we gotta give up SOMETHING, to get a "smaller" Tenere.

If it's lighter (everyone says they want it to be) smaller displacement (everyone says they want it to be) and more agile off-road (everyone says they want it to be), then I suspect it will have less cargo capacity.

Me? I think Yamaha has a tall order to build a junior Tenere that I will choose over the Big Girl, even when I'm heading out solo.

They could do it. I got "how" in my head. Lol. But I'm not sure its what everybody else is looking for.

It would LOOK almost identical. Especially at a glance. But look closely and it is an inch or two taller. (yea baby) And that very similar looking twin motor is about ⅔ the displacement. Any weight loss comes with the cargo capacity dropping to solo-pack mule vs the massive XT1200Z 2-up pack mule. Doubt they could shave 100lbs and stay drive-shaft.

They might be able to, and this is how: Weight loss is something of an exponential experience in engineering. For example: When Toyota came out with the 2.7L 4cyl truck motor, they had a 10% hp increase in one of their design changes after its first release.
They started with reducing the valve stem size of the valves
>reducing the necessary spring load to close it at the design rpm
> reducing the necessary cam strength to resist bending
>reducing the necessary cam chain size to turn the valvetrain

This is just an example in how reduced mass of one item can impact the other items related. I believe that a 470# is doable based off this logic.

 

[autoteach]

Thanks Autoteach, I totally missed that press release or any reference to the MT-07 as a bike that was more than fantasy. Neat naked bike. Seems pretty small displacement for loading up with panniers and hitting the road, imho. You could go Giant Loop and Visa card traveling and the light weight would be a real perk off pavement.

I mainly use my bike to go places. It stays loaded with the exception of clothes all the time. I guess I'm too old and fat to want to travel as minimal as a 700 would require any more. As it is, I often only pack one tee shirt, some socks and a pair of pants for a week long ride. It's all the other stuff that I don't want to do with out. The stuff that means I self recover rather than call for a tow. It also means I go slower off pavement.

No problem. Something to remember when considering our HP requirements for bikes today is what people did with 30-40 years ago. Cb750 = 67hp @500lbs

 

[snakebitten]

I'm no engineer. Not that kind anyways.

So you think it could be 470lbs with shaft drive?

That WOULD be very noticeable. And if everything "Tenere" was still there, I would be smitten.

I want it to be lighter. But can't think of much I would be willing to give up. Except less cargo capacity.