Super Tenere vs. BMW 1200gs?

3putt

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I have always wanted a GS since about 08, but the price and my experience on the 07 K12GT snapped it for me and BMWs. Never figured anyone would come out with something like the S10, but happy to have the choice for sure. Rode it yesterday at the IMS Dallas, very impressed as to the simple fun of the bike. It really worked great and was fun to ride. If the reliability is anything like the little WR250R that I beat on in mountains, it will be a super bike!

I am searching for mileage/range figures now to make up my mind, don't want a gas hog!
 

trinc4me

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Tiger_one said:
I have always wanted a GS since about 08, but the price and my experience on the 07 K12GT snapped it for me and BMWs. Never figured anyone would come out with something like the S10, but happy to have the choice for sure. Rode it yesterday at the IMS Dallas, very impressed as to the simple fun of the bike. It really worked great and was fun to ride. If the reliability is anything like the little WR250R that I beat on in mountains, it will be a super bike!

I am searching for mileage/range figures now to make up my mind, don't want a gas hog!
Wow, that's nice that you you got to ride the bike at the IMS and found it fun to ride. I'm looking forward to getting mine next May! :)
 

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Grunt58 said:
I have been stranded a couple of times and had to call Roadside assistance (provided by BMW on each new bike they sell). At 625 miles I was stranded and the good folks at BMW informed me they could not find a tow to get my bike back to a dealer. I was 25 miles outside of a major city. I was on my own to get my new bike back for repairs.
Roadside assistance left you stranded? That's sad...unbelievable really. One of those scenarios where I'm sure they could have gotten you a tow, but the cost probably fell outside of their operating parameters, so they wouldn't do it.
 

Grunt58

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Venture said:
Grunt58 said:
I have been stranded a couple of times and had to call Roadside assistance (provided by BMW on each new bike they sell). At 625 miles I was stranded and the good folks at BMW informed me they could not find a tow to get my bike back to a dealer. I was 25 miles outside of a major city. I was on my own to get my new bike back for repairs.
Roadside assistance left you stranded? That's sad...unbelievable really. One of those scenarios where I'm sure they could have gotten you a tow, but the cost probably fell outside of their operating parameters, so they wouldn't do it.
It was disheartening to say the least. I was just outside of Pittsburgh and the dealer was maybe 30 miles away at best. That one was the EWS ring and when that goes bad...you bike is locked out electronically and you can not start the bike. It was some wiz bang anti theft chip thing. Sad thing was I asked the dealer to check the code on the ring to make sure I was outside of the defective batches...oh yes...your good.....two days later I'm dead with the failure.
 

pvdk

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I've been riding a lot on the BMW R1200GS and GS Adventure. And I did a fair amount of testing on the new Super Ténéré. I wrote an article on the Yamaha for my blog over here in Belgium. These are my (personal) findings:

1/ Engine

Bmw is a little more powerful over the complete line. The new 4 valve/cylinder DOCH air cooled engine has more torque and revs a little better. The Yamaha runs smoother but lacks a little punch at the bottom of the scale. Starting from 3500 rpm the Yam is equally strong and keeps up until 7500 rpm where the BMW has the best end shot because the new 2010 model revs higher than the older model.

Vibration wise the Ténéré runs more smooth where the GS has more vibrations. Below 2500 rpm and above 6000 rpm I don't like the BMW. Also the Yamaha delivers the power a lot more linear what makes it easier to handle at full throttle. Even the BMW would win from the Ténéré in a straight line sprint, I prefer the way the parallel twin of the Yamaha runs.

2/ Wind protection

I'm 1,8 meter (5,9 ft) and for me the standard windshield on both bikes is adequate but I suffer from mild turbulence on my helmet. A wider and lager windscreen does help (like on the Adventure) so I think most matters can be solved. I rate the wind protection and turbulence the same on both bikes. But the BMW is more of a handful when exposed to strong lateral wind blowing on either side of the bike.

3/ Ergonomics

Both bikes present a neath solution to carry side cases. When you take them off the bikes still look clean. I think the BMW's system looks just a little better but I prefer the side cases of the Yamaha opening on the top. Construction and materials are almost similar. I prefer the seat on the Yamaha big time. Better support, harder and more anti-slip material is used. Riding position differs to. My legs are in a more natural position on the Ténéré but I think all depends on the length of your legs. To me the Yamaha just feels better, more harmonic. The dash of the Yamaha lacks the gear indicator but looks more modern. BMW keeps making analogue speedometers, it's up to you what you prefer. I think Yamaha did a good job. They have their 12v (normal size) plug near the dash, BMW mounts it down below and behind the rider. Difficult to use and you need a special BMW plug to. On the GS BMW still offers turning signal knobs on both sides of the handlebar but they are changing that on other recent models.

4/ Handling

BMW has a unique telelever / paralever suspension system. I've been riding a lot of BMW bikes and once you get familiar with it, it does a great job. Nose dive is less than on conventional suspension set-up and you can brake really hard deep into corners. But the downside is that the front lacks decent feedback if the going gets tough. With less feedback coming from the front the driver has less information on what the tire is doing in the corners. On top of that, the ESA system (electronic suspension adjustment) makes life easy but is not the best way to set up a bike properly. Looking at the ST10 I think Yamaha did a great job using an upside-down fully adjustable front suspension with progressive elements inside. the front provides a lot of feedback and does a fantastic job keeping the contact to the road on very different surfaces from race track alike tarmac to bumpy gravel roads. The rear suspension is easy to set up without the need of tools and the monoschock suspension is very good. I prefer the suspension on the Yamaha.

The BMW wins when it comes to the weight of the bike. It weights 30 pounds less (filled up). You could think that's a lot (it is) but thankfully Yamaha got the engine heaviest parts low, they provided a very balanced bike and the total concept does not feel like it's heavy at all. Of course the wide handlebars do help but that's the same on the beemer. To me both bike are similar when it comes down to interpreting weight in terms of handling. The Yamaha feels very light on slow corners and in difficult situations. Kudos.

5/ Transmission

Both bikes have shaft transmission. The Yamaha does not feel like it is powered and driven by axle. The feel is silk smooth compared to the BMW. Especially at low rpm and when I need to use the clutch, the Yamaha excels in excellent feel on the shaft drive. Take that into account together with the linear power curve and the Ténéré is a better bike to handle.

6/ Brakes

The ST10 has fantastic brakes. The BMW does to. To me they have similar braking power. Both ABS systems work great but on bumpy roads the Yamaha wins because of the front wheel keeping better contact with the surface. The telelever suspension can make it harder for the ABS system to get the job done. In normal (perfect road) conditions both perform equal. On worse roads the Yamaha benefits from its suspension.

7/ Overall conclusion

Looks are personal. I never loved the looks of the beemer. But it has always been a statement in this category of bikes. Personally I prefer the looks of the Ténéré. Over here in Belgium, comparing price tags, the Yamaha has the best cards because it has a lot of stuff build in standard where you need to pay a lot of extra cash when you want it installed on the GS. Both bikes are great performers. Engine wise, the BMW has the best cards when it comes to power and sprinting. Nevertheless the Yamaha feels smoother, handles better and the engine feels smoother when leaving the better roads. The engine runs smoother, the roll off is better and the transmission feels a lot better than the one on the GS. Both are great performers for adventure, travelling and touring. If you want to take both for a small street fight on twisty roads, they will both perform very well but people who want to set-up their suspension with a lot of care are better off with the Yamaha.

BMW has sold 150.000 R1200GS(A) bikes worldwide. So they own the crown in this segment of the market. I'm pretty well convinced that with the arrival of the ST10 a lot of interested buyers will look into the Super Ténéré. Personally I was so convinced that I placed my order two weeks ago. I think that Yamaha has made a bike that equals the BMW in many ways and excels in some parts. The monopoly is broken.

Being a freelance journalist riding motorcycles for a living gives me the benefit to compare a lot of bikes. Sometimes it is difficult to keep an open mind. When I have to buy myself my own bikes, it makes it even harder. I'm very critical on a lot of things. I honestly think I made a good choice. The future will tell as it always does. I've owned quiet a few different bikes. Some I loved more than others. I have a good feeling about the ST10.

Phil
 

trinc4me

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pvdk said:
...... I've been riding a lot on the BMW R1200GS and GS Adventure ...... I've owned quiet a few different bikes. Some I loved more than others. I have a good feeling about the ST10 ....
Awesome write-up Phil! Thanks for taking the time to share this on the forum!

Bob
 

Swagger

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pvdk said:
I've been riding a lot on the BMW R1200GS and GS Adventure. And I did a fair amount of testing on the new Super Ténéré ........ I've owned quiet a few different bikes. Some I loved more than others. I have a good feeling about the ST10 .....
Appreciate your thoughts Phil. Read your blog .... good stuff.
 

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this write-up backs my theory on BMW's from what i have heard over the past few years.
Now, wi ill be comparing the Super 10 to past Honda's for the quality sake and reliability.
 

chickey191

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great write up PVDK.
I have a GS (actually it is the wife's) and would add a few things - maybe ask a question or two.
The telelever front end is often cited for "vagueness" - getting a feel for the front end does take some getting used to. The benefits of the telelever are multiple, but there is a problem cornering in rough pavement - sometimes leaving responsiveness and chatter of the front wheel a problem. not really a problem as much as a un-nerving feeling. Also - direct head on straight edge bumps - like a curb seem to react violently with the front end.
You didn't mention it - but the nature of the BMW twin is probably my biggest gripe. The torque - with the bike trying to rotate to the right always strikes me as problematic. Left hand turns requiring added throttle during the turn always made me feel a little strange and right handers are much easier.
I'm disappointed that the Super Ten is heavier than the GS - as i always thought that was the worst part of the GS. Big bike and a handful in the dirt or at least on anything very tight - not a problem on fire roads or open desert, but not a bike I would prefer to take in the mountains.
You mentioned a power outlet - "normal size" I assume that means like a cigarette plug power outlet. I MUCH prefer BMW plugs (also John Deere - the same thing) because they hold the power plug in a more secure manner - plus all my bikes have used them or I have added them though I usually tie in at least one SAE type trailer plug as a stand by as they are pretty common and I keep a spare one in my kit with exposed and soldered wires that are easy to clamp onto with a regular battery alligator clamps in case of emergency.

Glad to hear the Super Ténéré has a more linear power band though I really have never had much of a problem with the GS though the Twin DOES vibrate a great deal A REALLY great deal though not all that bothersome at speed, but there are definitely some RPM's that are irritating.

overall - I'm stoked to hear that the Super Tenere handles better than the GS. Other than sport bikes - I've always LOVED the way a gs handles and have smoked many a sport bike in the mountains - not with blazing speed, but with a great handling GS. Not bragging here because I have been smoked many a time by lesser bikes and better pilots. To me the GS goes where I point it and typically goes where I think about pointing it.
GS is very comfortable to me - and all BMW seats SUCK, except perhaps the new LT and even that sucks after about 5 hours on the bike. I typically replace the seat with a Russel Day Long as soon as possible. for me.... the best seat in the world (that I have tried, anyway).
You didn't mention alternator power which I'm still concerned with and that is something that all BMW's beat the competition with.

The CanBus system on BMW's is probably great for them - but can make adding farkles a bit more difficult than it needs to be and they have fixed the power assisted brakes - though one thing that they haven't fixed at least to my satisfaction is THEIR REAR DRIVE FAILURES. They are still happening with far too much frequency and this is my main complaint with BMW. Much like the old R bike "surging" that BMW denies ever having, but have done several modifications to the bike to get rid (of the problem they say they never had) - the same goes for the rear drive.
I lost my first on my K12LT at about 70,000 miles - and then a second one after about 35,000 miles. Not that they should fail after 70k - my problem was the capricious way BMW handled the problem (with me and with others). Some people got their's fixed out of warranty - others didn't. Plus the fact that bmw changed their unlimited mileage warranty to 50k. and other problem - that many dealers still say that they never heard of a bmw rear drive problem. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Later they said that the problem was only on a very small percentage of high mileage, well used or over loaded bikes. I guess that all my friends were heavy users - they definitely are a high mileage bunch.

I love the GS and if the Super Tenere is how you describe - it will certainly be happy with the Super Ten.
 

pvdk

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Thanks for the extra input. When I talk about handling, the BMW corners really great but I prefer the overal handling of the ST10 thanks to the engine and the set-up of the bike. As I wrote, the GS owns the crown but be sure to get a ride on the ST10, you will not be disappointed.
 

Mike Sisson

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PVDK- Nice write up! I noted you are 5'9". What is your inseam? How planted are your feet when stopped? I have a buddy interested in the S10 but is a bit concerned regarding the seat height.

Thanks!
 

macca

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The seat is adjustable (very easy to do) and theres an accessory option for a lower seat from yamaha. I'm 5'11" with 31" inseam (obtained from all my pants rather than measured) and with the seat on highest wearing Sidi Adventures (~1" heel) I can flat foot on one side or easy get both balls of feet down on both. My suspension is still running in so I expect a bit more sag after a 1000 or so miles (not running std sag front and rear) . So lots of options for the shorter of leg.
 

hANNAbONE

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pvdk said:
I've been riding a lot on the BMW R1200GS and GS Adventure. And I did a fair amount of testing on the new Super Ténéré. I wrote an article on the Yamaha for my blog over here in Belgium. These are my (personal) findings:


Being a freelance journalist riding motorcycles for a living gives me the benefit to compare a lot of bikes. Sometimes it is difficult to keep an open mind. When I have to buy myself my own bikes, it makes it even harder. I'm very critical on a lot of things. I honestly think I made a good choice. The future will tell as it always does. I've owned quiet a few different bikes. Some I loved more than others. I have a good feeling about the ST10.

Phil

Thank you = Phil...this is exactly what I came here for - to read reviews from folks that have the bike. My first post is one of THANKS.! Good job outta you.!!
 

pvdk

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My legs are not that long. I found the ST10 to be better than GS to put my feet on the ground. The ST10 has a ground clearance of aprox. 200mm but still I just manage to put both feet almost flat on the surface. It could be different if I adjust the suspension. My settings are OEM at this time but perhaps I will change the setup when I'm more familiar with the bike.

DaFoole said:
PVDK- Nice write up! I noted you are 5'9". What is your inseam? How planted are your feet when stopped? I have a buddy interested in the S10 but is a bit concerned regarding the seat height.

Thanks!
 

Jakeboy

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DaFoole said:
DaFoole said:
I give you guys credit, as I've never been able to outride my bladder.....for riding waay out in the boonies, I'll rig up something to carry a 1-2 gallon reserve.
Are you kiddin'!! ;D I've got to stop about every 60" to pee. I like to stretch and smell the roses a bit as well. It's just nice to have the fuel volume so you don't have to worry about the next gas stop which can be a bit iffy sometimes when your out in the boonies. Have had a couple of real close calls with the Strom.
I actually ran out of gas on my Strom. Ran into a big detour. Tank was bone dry at 220 miles.
 

SpeedStar

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pvdk - nice pictures! Thanks for sharing them.
 

HoebSTer

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pvdk, nice pics, boy you sure like looking at that rear don't you?
 
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