Super Tenere or......?

[Ron Earp]

What happened to you ST that has caused it to be in the shop?

 

[eemsreno]

Must have been a held over model sitting there new.

 

[EricV]

I've owned three on your list. About 20k miles on a Tenere, 12k on an Explorer XC, and approaching 20k on the current bike a water cooled R1200 GS.

On the highway any of these bikes will work well.

Agreed. ::008::

The Tenere has slightly worse vibration at high speeds IMO and it has the slowest turn-in in this class by far...it gives the bike a stable feel but makes obstacle avoidance in commuting traffic a scary eye opener when compared to others you are considering.

That's an interesting perspective. I have a tad over 100k on the Super Ten and the wife has about 6k on her GSW, (a GSA Low). I've ridden the GS a fair amount. I didn't find it's handling to be any sharper than my Super Tenere, but my bike is not stock. The GSW is feature rich with lots of toys to play with and lots of neat features to look at on the dash. Love the Nav wheel on the bars, for example, and the adjustable factory screen is excellent, just to name two items. But for a $10,000 premium, you should get a few extras!

Turn in is impacted by many issues, tires alone make most bikes feel/handle different in regards to turn in. Load changes the angles and impacts turn in feel as well. Too much weight for a given shock spring/pre-load will slow turn in, for example. I have a much stiffer spring than stock, on the stock shock, because I ride with a heavier load, (my fat ass + gear I always carry), that was a cheap modification.

If you're a bigger guy or do 2-up and have to have the Tenere get the ES, the suspension is too soft on the other.

Or actually take the time to get the suspension set up correctly with the correct weight spring for your needs. Often cheaper than the extra cost for the ES if you're not doing custom shock and fork valving changes, just correcting spring weights.

My Tenere spent more time in the shop than all my other bikes combined and they never did get everything sorted. The Explorer had a recall under my ownership. The BMW has been flawless.

Doing your own maintenance? The Tenere takes more time than any bike I've owned...the BMW the least.

Both of those statements could use some elaboration. What issue(s) had the S10 in the shop? And what maintenance takes more time on the Super Tenere? The intervals are longer on the Yamaha than either of the other bikes.

You came to this forum so you're likely as biased towards the Tenere as some of this group is anti-oldmodelGS... Go ride them all...if you can't appreciate or don't need the finer qualities the GSW offers, save your money but get the newer updated Tenere/Explorer/whatever.

Sounds a bit like rationalization there. The 'features' of the GSW are nice, but not really anything needed if you're riding the bike. And anti-old model GS? Now, now, I'm anti-BMW completely. Biggest POS on the market. Enormously bad engineering in nearly every area of design. But you're the poster child for BMW too, you don't keep bikes long enough to care about warranty expiring or long term ownership issues when the miles get up there.

-The GSW is the first bike I've had that I didn't want to get something different after a year. Good luck.

Come back in another year and tell us how you like it then. If you go out of warranty you'll start to learn about a whole new set of "features" of BMWs. Transmission failures, water pump failures, final drive failures, (yes, on the GSW. I have a close friend with one, his failed on his first long ride with the wife, less than 4k on the bike), and on and on. The '11 GS required a trans rebuild because we "rode it too much in 6th gear" at 35k miles. Wheel bearings shortly after that, (the dealer told us they only expect them to last 20k and usually change them between 20-25k. Both of my Yamahas, (FJR and S10), have gone over 100k on the original wheel bearings). The stator burned up at 50k with virtually no aux power draw other than heated grips, the engine grenaded at 70k after the water pump died. (4 months waiting on an engine to be built from scratch). They never did fix the coolant overflow spewing out on hot days, calling it a "cosmetic issue" and removing the service bulletin from the dealer network about it.

I'm underwhelmed by the GSW, the engine is smooth and has adequate power, but just leaves me feeling blah and uninspired. Every Triumph Explorer guy I know in the LD community has moved on to another bike after a year or two. Mostly because of the bike sitting in the shop waiting on parts for one reason or another. Nice bike, but that's moot if you can't ride it. I haven't ridden one and didn't consider it, ever, because of the limited dealer network. We have to ride 140 miles to the nearest BMW dealer, (one way), and ride 300 miles to the nearest good BMW dealer where we get service, (its her 2nd BMW, the first is still in the garage, (soon to be sold), with over 100k miles on it, an '11 GS). The nearest Triumph dealer is 300 miles away too.

To the OP, MNs10 is right, go ride them all. See what suits your needs and fits your riding style and taste. If you're going to keep the bike for more than 3 years and 36k miles, I would suggest you not consider the BMW. Cost of ownership is higher leaving the dealer, more expensive for service if you are paying the dealer to do it, and cost out of warranty climbs quickly. If you never keep bikes that long before moving on, then it really doesn't matter. If the bike fits you and your needs, go for it if it puts a smile on your face.

Just an aside, you can't buy an extended factory warranty from BMW. They don't sell them because they did the math and realized they would lose money. Yamaha sells a 4 year extension to the full factory 1 year warranty that can be had from D&H Cycles for ~$400. I was able to add another 2 years of factory extended warranty, even with nearly 100k on the bike at the time and an expensive warranty repair, (CCT failure), to my Super Tenere for $350, again thru D&H, after receiving the offer direct from Yamaha.

If you buy the BMW and believe you will keep it and ride it out of warranty, spend the premium for an aftermarket extended warranty when you buy the bike. There are several good companies selling them and your dealer should be able to help you with that. Expect to pay $1200-$2000 for it, but it will almost certainly pay for itself. The new GSW has a 10 year, unlimited mileage aftermarket warranty on it, that cost $2k. And read and understand the fine print on the warranty before you buy it. Typical is that it will only pay out over the lifetime what the original purchase price of the bike was when you bought it, and for any one claim, only pay what the bike is worth at the time of the claim. We had to pay out of pocket when the engine burned up because the bike's value at that time was less than the cost of the repairs. (~$1500 difference)

If you buy the Yamaha, you have the first year of warranty in which to decide if you want to buy the YES. The Yamaha Extended Service warranty extends the standard factory warranty up to 4 more years. Any Yamaha dealer can sell it to you, but prices will vary widely. Call D&H Cycles before you spend the money on it elsewhere. They don't advertise their prices, but are quick to tell you over the phone exactly what the price is and how to make it happen. Just don't wait until the last week of your 1 year warranty. The YES doesn't start when you purchase it, it's simply added on to the existing warranty, so it doesn't matter if you buy it when you buy the bike or close to the end of the 1 year original factory warranty, the coverage period will be the same.

I have no idea what Triumph offers in terms of warranty or extended warranty, but you should find out if you get serious about buying one. The history is there for it being worth while to have.

Generally I don't purchase extended warranties. For the Yamahas I have, because it was cheap, (got it negotiated into the purchase for free when I bought the last two bikes), but it has proven worth the money on the bikes since we ride a lot and keep them long enough. You have to decide what's right for you and your needs.

 

[MNs10]

EricV,

Just a couple of things. It is more expensive in MN to have the dealership perform maintenance on the Tenere than the GSW...the hourly rate is the same and it takes much longer to perform the work on the Tenere by the time you get to 24k miles. When it's time to change the plugs on the Tenere, I can replace the plugs, air filter and check the valves on the GSW in about the same amount of time.

I didn't say 'features' I said 'finer qualities'...If you can't tell the difference in suspension, brakes, motor power, handling etc...you're on the right bike. This is why I said go ride them all. I'm not going to go point by point with anyone on here or talk about my friend's friend experiences. The OP asked for experience on specific bikes. I gave a very brief and truthful response.

Ride what you like and enjoy.

 

[EricV]

EricV,

Just a couple of things. It is more expensive in MN to have the dealership perform maintenance on the Tenere than the GSW...the hourly rate is the same and it takes much longer to perform the work on the Tenere by the time you get to 24k miles. When it's time to change the plugs on the Tenere, I can replace the plugs, air filter and check the valves on the GSW in about the same amount of time.

I didn't say 'features' I said 'finer qualities'...If you can't tell the difference in suspension, brakes, motor power, handling etc...you're on the right bike. This is why I said go ride them all. I'm not going to go point by point with anyone on here or talk about my friend's friend experiences. The OP asked for experience on specific bikes. I gave a very brief and truthful response.

Ride what you like and enjoy.

Yes, you did give a brief and truthful response. And thank you. I have direct experience with both brands, just different from yours. It would still be helpful if you elaborated on your comment of the Super Tenere spending more time in the shop than any other bike you owned. If this is just referring to the time for normal service, that gives a different perspective than what may have been perceived as in the shop for repairs or trouble issues.

Yes, I said "features". I disagree with your perception of finer qualities. They two bikes are different, yes. I don't rate the GSW as any better of a bike in the areas you list. Suspension may be more refined, but that is subjective to how it's used. And you can upgrade the Super Tenere with full Ohlins, (about the highest $$ option), front and rear for less than $3k. I'm actually about to do that to my '12.

Thanks for taking the time to respond. These posts get looked at years later and can still provide useful info for other riders.

 

[Checkswrecks]

I also have a fair amount of BMW experience and absolutely do not agree that it has "finer qualities." Especially when left walking by two different bikes not starting, a wheel issue (Tenere has it's share of those which can be prevented by watching the spokes and not riding rock piles), personally knowing somebody who had a transmission grenade, knowing somebody else who had a rear fail on a trip, pulling into Hyder Alaska and the first thing I see is a GS with the side cover off to troubleshoot the electrics, etc. My lady does NOT prefer the BMW RT or GS seats to the Tenere. And then paying more? The GSW is fun to ride on the road but I sure don't want to own one.


I skimmed through the posts by MNs10 from when he had his bike and don't see lots of complaining so also am curious what kept his in the shop so much.

 

[RED CAT]

This is a Super Tenere site so chances are you will get the Rah Rah Rah. But it is well deserved. The S10 is the most under estimated motorcycle out there. Had a new GS12 and a new Triumph 955 and a new KTM 950 Adv a while back and I really liked them while I owned them but was always waiting for something to go wrong, hanging over my head. Never did have anything serious happen but when I got my first 2012 Super Tenere, my first thought was: wow, is it ever nice to be back on a Jap bike. Not only that but $10,000. less than a comparable GS. No one has mentioned 2 other things about the S10. It also has the most leg room of all the big Adventure bikes. And it is also the best on dirt/gravel roads by a long shot. On my 2014 ES now and loving it even more. I tend to ride briskly and put a bike through its paces. The Super Tenere has it all.

 

[glashab]

Hi Guys,

Thank you ever so much for all the information you provided me I really really appreciate it The online normal info you get from reviews is terrible in comparison to your expertise. In the mags everything sounds great until you start digging deep and then all the issues come up. Literally the only one I coukd nt dig dirt up on was the ST.

MNs10 what was the problem you had with your ST that it was in the shop?


I thank you for the information on warranties, the other bikes info I was looking at and the fact the you have told me how reliable this bike is. I am 5'10 and 45 with an old lower back injury and so need to get this right the first time. Because of you guys who are amazing, I have decided on paper to go with the Tenere for sure and cross off the other bikes off my list. I just need to go test ride one now to make sure it is ok on my back. Thisbike I shall be keeping till it croaks!. By the way you guys are talking it wil last a really long time!

I would like to thank Red Cat, Ceckswrecks, Eric V, MNs10, eemsreno, Ron Earp, Bigbore4, Bryn, Rasher, Velvet, jmcgilroy and the rest of ypu kind people for helping me out. Please stay safe out there and will keep you posted!

 

[Checkswrecks]

Keep your eyes open and don't force yourself to live with what looks best on paper. Not knocking your decision, I just know that I've regretted dismissing my heart a few times, and bikes are emotional.


That said, if you want to buy new, it's hard to beat D&H in Cullman, Alabama. They do huge volume, so can beat most dealers in price, plus do fly & drive deliveries.

 

[glashab]

Hi Checkswrecks that you for the check That is appreciated, you are right it has to be emotional too. With the ST there is some emotion there but my heart was saying Moto Guzzi Stelvio and still does but I can't seem to shakeoff the Tenere either due to its stellar record. I think the Stelvio would be hit and miss. Thank you so much for the tip on the dealer I was looking at Big #1 Alabama as they seemed to have competitive pricing. I shall definitely look at D&H in Cullman Alabama too now as am looking ofr a 2016 non ES. Thanks a lot it is much apreciated and have a good week!