Super Ténéré 2017 & Beyond...

[BaldKnob]

I just want a normal 700cc Tenere :/ The Africa Twin would have been perfect but the weight kills it for me.

The S10 could do better if they actually spent marketing money on it. I'd actually love to see how the S10 compares to the KTM 1190 sales-wise.

Imagine a 750cc Africa Twin.... 425lbs, 70hp, Honda cred. In, unless Yamaha builds the 750 Tenere first.

As for marketing, the magazines killed any publicity by basically saying it's a turd.

 

[hoak]

You mean this?

Just so the XT1200Z thread doesn't become a XT700Z thread there's one dedicated to the 700 here, that goes into elaborate obsessive (and entertaining) analysis of the limited photo reconnaissance of this test bike. Just wanted to head that one off at the pass, hope no one minds...

::022::

 

[scott123007]

I think it's time to move on. A lot of points have been made and then beaten to death.
Funny how it's always the guy's that don't go to the rider get together's we have, that always seem to have the loudest opinions about the bikes shortcomings. Maybe you should actually get on your bike and ride it to one of them, and meet people that have over 100,000 of trouble free miles, that weren't stranded because of a valve adjustment that wasn't done on time, or whose sparkplug crapped out because water got past a coil seal, or lost control because of their flexy forks or improper damping, than to beat your keyboard to death telling those of us that actually ride them great distances in extremely varied terrain, quite aggressively, how inadequate they are.

 

[WaltM]

Interesting thread that for the most part assumes that S10 owners are coming from dirt bikes up to an S10 in size. If you are like me and moving from an 800+ pound bagger to an S10 my concerns are a whole lot different than getting to a proper dirt bike. I just want to be able to hit the occasional gravel or forest service road.


I only have about 800 miles on the S10 so far and to my [/size] mind the bike is plenty fast in sport mode and touring mode is great for puttering around town. Windshield, grips, and seat I would probably leave along since most people change them anyway. I would like to see more adjustability in the windshield from the factory like the Madstad bracket. [size=78%]
I am concerning about changing the air filter and getting to the battery, but overall it looks a lot easier to change the air filter on the S10 than on my buddy's Goldwing. That is an ordeal. Battery on my Roadstar is pop off the seat and done. Air filter is six or seven bolts.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Several people - not just one - have pushed the edge of being civil. We all see our OWN needs and expectations for the bike and guess what? As WaltM points out, we're all different!


Letting it go for now, but once again:


Address the thread topic and the content. NOT the other folks posting.

 

[WaltM]

Leave the thread. Take the cannolis. ::025::

 

[gregp]

So far, the best idea for improvement I've read here are the self canceling turn signals. Damn I'd love to have those! Maybe LED headlights would be nice too.

 

[WaltM]

::026:: to self-canceling turn signals!

 

[hoak]

Funny how it's always the guy's that don't go to the rider get together's we have, that always seem to have the loudest opinions about the bikes shortcomings.

So you're suggesting that by starting this thread, having never been to one of your 'rider get together's' or invited for that matter, that I have the 'loudest opinions about the bike's shortcomings'?

Maybe you should actually get on your bike and ride it to one of them, and meet people that have over 100,000 of trouble free miles, that weren't stranded because of a valve adjustment that wasn't done on time, or whose sparkplug crapped out because water got past a coil seal, or lost control because of their flexy forks or improper damping, than to beat your keyboard to death telling those of us that actually ride them great distances in extremely varied terrain, quite aggressively, how inadequate they are.

If you and your pals are in fact having over 100,000 of trouble free miles and everything is hunky dory and perfect -- that's great. But how and why should that curtail me from expressing the desire for something better and starting a thread about it? And what's wrong responding to people that question my preferences?

If the moderators agree with you, that's great too; I've invited them to delete the thread in entire in that event, and would welcome that outcome -- it would be perfectly fine with me. Then you can start a politically correct thread that only allows posts from people that agree with you and where any question that might invite 'wrong thinking', or any kind of disagreement is not permitted. Wouldn't that be better?

 

[WaltM]

I like the 2013 instruments better then the new all LCD that I have on my 2014; I get that this is less expensive, and probably more robust, but it's not easy on the eyes, the fuel gauge is useless -- and there are a number of studies that show this kind of display is much more task intensive and requires more operator attention then analog instruments; I've also been nailed by sun glaring off the display as there's just too much flat surface.

I agree. I have the 2015 and the LCD is very difficult for my 49 year old eyes to read at speed. The tach is pretty useless because there is no "red" zone and the multitude of information on different screens is very hard to read (is that 70 the temperature or range to empty or the trip ODO?)

 

[AVGeek]

If the moderators agree with you, that's great too; I've invited them to delete the thread in entire in that event, and would welcome that outcome -- it would be perfectly fine with me. Then you can start a politically correct thread that only allows posts from people that agree with you and where any question that might invite 'wrong thinking', or any kind of disagreement is not permitted. Wouldn't that be better?

I have no intention of pulling this thread, though I have pulled a few posts from it that went over the line. The discussion over the future direction of this bike is perfectly valid, so let's discuss the topic, and not target the person making comments. Every member here is entitled to their opinion, and we want open discussion about the bike. You can debate the merits, you can agree to disagree, but ad hominem* attacks are not allowed.

*Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

 

[trainman]

even if the thread has taken somewhat a detour in debate, we only have to look at other forums to be thankful we don't have the issues they have!

we want to improve a basically fine bike, other forums are hunting for fixes to some fairly major issues!
be thankful and full of joy (and its sunny here in old blighty too)

 

[WJBertrand]

Back on track, my list for the Gen III Super - T after almost a year's ownership of my '15 ES:

1. Hydraulic adjusted valve lash. This is a pet peeve of mine for many motorcycle, not just the Tenere. I disagree with the early poster that says this is a no-go because of the high performance nature of the engine. I have a Mustang with 5.0L engine that makes 435 hp, that's a higher specific output than the Tenere's engine, and it has hydraulic adjusters. It's also got a pretty high red line for a cage engine at about 7200 RPM

2. I would like Yamaha to try and quiet down the mechanical clatter of the engine a bit. I heard a new Africa Twin running which has a similarly configured 270 degree engine and it was much more mechanically quiet. That might allow opening up the exhaust a little while still meeting noise regulations.

3. The EFI system still needs some work to smooth on/off throttle transitions. You can re-flash it but why should you have to?

4. I wouldn't mind a larger fuel tank, maybe 8 gallons?

5. Maybe beef up the rear wheel a bit based on a small number of broken spoke and cracked rims reported? The front wheel with its double flange design looks more robust. Wonder why they didn't do that for the rear?

6. Make the TCS switchable on the fly from a handle bar mounted control. Also, make the system remember your last setting.

7. Cornering lights like the new FJR would be cool.

 

[kgfire]

Twenty less pounds and twenty more horsepower.

 

[ace50]

Back on track, my list for the Gen III Super - T after almost a year's ownership of my '15 ES:

1. Hydraulic adjusted valve lash. This is a pet peeve of mine for many motorcycle, not just the Tenere. I disagree with the early poster that says this is a no-go because of the high performance nature of the engine. I have a Mustang with 5.0L engine that makes 435 hp, that's a higher specific output than the Tenere's engine, and it has hydraulic adjusters. It's also got a pretty high red line for a cage engine at about 7200 RPM

2. I would like Yamaha to try and quiet down the mechanical clatter of the engine a bit. I heard a new Africa Twin running which has a similarly configured 270 degree engine and it was much more mechanically quiet. That might allow opening up the exhaust a little while still meeting noise regulations.

3. The EFI system still needs some work to smooth on/off throttle transitions. You can re-flash it but why should you have to?

4. I wouldn't mind a larger fuel tank, maybe 8 gallons?

5. Maybe beef up the rear wheel a bit based on a small number of broken spoke and cracked rims reported? The front wheel with its double flange design looks more robust. Wonder why they didn't do that for the rear?

6. Make the TCS switchable on the fly from a handle bar mounted control. Also, make the system remember your last setting.

7. Cornering lights like the new FJR would be cool.

That's about the same HP per cyl. and in a car engine, you have a hell of a lot more room to do things.
Mine is no louder than a lot of other bikes I've had.
MANY bikes have this problem.........ya it could be better I suppose.
I'm OK the way it is. Furthest range of any bike I've owned.

 

[Bryce]

here's some more that I'd like to see

easier and more adjustable windscreen
an accessory bar that's more stable and doesn't shake so badly
a 12v power point that has a high capacity for using a tire pump
a few 2+amp USP ports
temp gauge that reports the real ambient air temp, not the temp of the inside of the air filter box
TCS mode to remember where I left it and change on the fly
easier to service the air filter (although, I've gotten pretty good at doing my servicing of the bike, it's not an easy trail side or parking lot repair).
better OEM luggage option
gauge cluster and winglets with some sort of anti-glare coating (ya get the sun just right behind you and these can blind you)

 

[WJBertrand]

That's about the same HP per cyl. and in a car engine, you have a hell of a lot more room to do things.
Mine is no louder than a lot of other bikes I've had.
MANY bikes have this problem.........ya it could be better I suppose.
I'm OK the way it is. Furthest range of any bike I've owned.

435hp/5.0L = 87 hp/L for the Coyote V8 and these engines are commonly modified for higher horsepower and RPM. Honda's done hydraulic adjusters in a smaller, higher RPM motor in the past, for example the 700cc Nighthawk.

100hp/1.2L = 83.3 hp/L for the Terene so pretty close

Coming off my ST1300, which has a 7.7 gallon tank and similar MPGs, I'm admittedly a bit spoiled here I suppose.

 

[hoak]

I agree with and like this post; the Buell XB12X is another example of a bike with similar power/weight that has hydraulic lifters. As far as additional feature like cornering lights; I'd prefer anything that adds cost and/or additional complexity be added as options -- the way you can plug-in the OEM heated grips from the ES for example...

It would also be a nice if the Super Ténére was more CAN bus standard and compliant -- it would make creating hardware and software tools and diagnostics a lot easier and less expensive...

Back on track, my list for the Gen III Super - T after almost a year's ownership of my '15 ES:

1. Hydraulic adjusted valve lash. This is a pet peeve of mine for many motorcycle, not just the Tenere. I disagree with the early poster that says this is a no-go because of the high performance nature of the engine. I have a Mustang with 5.0L engine that makes 435 hp, that's a higher specific output than the Tenere's engine, and it has hydraulic adjusters. It's also got a pretty high red line for a cage engine at about 7200 RPM

2. I would like Yamaha to try and quiet down the mechanical clatter of the engine a bit. I heard a new Africa Twin running which has a similarly configured 270 degree engine and it was much more mechanically quiet. That might allow opening up the exhaust a little while still meeting noise regulations.

3. The EFI system still needs some work to smooth on/off throttle transitions. You can re-flash it but why should you have to?

4. I wouldn't mind a larger fuel tank, maybe 8 gallons?

5. Maybe beef up the rear wheel a bit based on a small number of broken spoke and cracked rims reported? The front wheel with its double flange design looks more robust. Wonder why they didn't do that for the rear?

6. Make the TCS switchable on the fly from a handle bar mounted control. Also, make the system remember your last setting.

7. Cornering lights like the new FJR would be cool.

 

[dietDrThunder]

Back on track, my list for the Gen III Super - T after almost a year's ownership of my '15 ES:

1. Hydraulic adjusted valve lash. This is a pet peeve of mine for many motorcycle, not just the Tenere. I disagree with the early poster that says this is a no-go because of the high performance nature of the engine. I have a Mustang with 5.0L engine that makes 435 hp, that's a higher specific output than the Tenere's engine, and it has hydraulic adjusters. It's also got a pretty high red line for a cage engine at about 7200 RPM

2. I would like Yamaha to try and quiet down the mechanical clatter of the engine a bit. I heard a new Africa Twin running which has a similarly configured 270 degree engine and it was much more mechanically quiet. That might allow opening up the exhaust a little while still meeting noise regulations.

3. The EFI system still needs some work to smooth on/off throttle transitions. You can re-flash it but why should you have to?

4. I wouldn't mind a larger fuel tank, maybe 8 gallons?

5. Maybe beef up the rear wheel a bit based on a small number of broken spoke and cracked rims reported? The front wheel with its double flange design looks more robust. Wonder why they didn't do that for the rear?

6. Make the TCS switchable on the fly from a handle bar mounted control. Also, make the system remember your last setting.

7. Cornering lights like the new FJR would be cool.

Now here is a post that is actually relevant to the target market for the bike. I don't mind the clatter, but I agree 100% about hydraulic lifters. There must be a reason, but I have no idea what it is. My 85 CB700SC had them, red lines over 10k, and I absolutely flogged the living daylights out of that bike for over 77k miles, all trouble free. That motor had steeper cams and revved a lit higher than the Tenere motor, so those can't be the issue. Maybe it's a cost of manufacture issue? Not sure.

 

[dietDrThunder]

It wouldn't make any difference in the comparison made

Apparently my last response wasn't civil, so I'll try again.

If it wouldn't make any difference, then why did you bring up all of that stuff about possible stiffer forks etc.?

Yes, let's not muddy up the conversation with math and facts; since you're obviously the sole and final authority on 'the bike's intended use'...

I am interested to see what math and facts you're referring to. Please post them up.

Also, I am not the sole and final authority on anything. But, consider this:

The Tenere weighs nearly 600 pounds, and makes under 100 hp. It comes equipped with cruise control, and ABS that is designed on purpose to never be turned off. The factory supplies a catalog of add-ons etc. that an owner can buy to personalize their bike. I went through the entire list of accessories, and not a single one of them is intended to make the bike a serious off-road machine. On the other hand, you can add heated grips, a more comfortable touring seat, a larger wind screen, extra power plugs, and other niceties. There are a few items like a skid plate and crash bars, but none are nearly robust enough that anyone who was on a serious off-road mission would choose them.

So, with all of that in mind I would like to hear more about the intended use and target market for this motorcycle that I apparently don't understand. Multiple OEMs have said publicly that their own market research shows that a large majority of ADV bike buyers never ride off road at all. So, if you want to sell an ADV bike to the masses, it would make no sense at all to compromise its on-road prowess for off-road capability that the majority of the customers don't want in the first place (I'm speaking here of things like the shorter first gear mentioned earlier in the thread).

So it seems that the majority of customers don't want their ADV bike to be a serious off-road machine. Because of this, the bike isn't intended as a serious off-road machine, it isn't designed as a serious off-road machine, and it isn't marketed as a serious off road machine. I'm not an expert on the subject, but these things lead me to believe that the S10 isn't a serious off-road machine.

This is all I was trying to get at in the first place.

As for real improvements to the model that would positively impact the typical S10 customer, I'd say wind management would be a big one. I know that this is a highly personal thing where one man's solution is another man's disaster. But, that doesn't mean that there isn't room to make it better as delivered. I would also like there to be a bit less engine vibration, but this is probably hard to realize on a motor of this configuration. Also, it's pretty nitty to pick that, as it's not obtrusive, but it is one of the few negatives I have on my bike. The stock seat has an inexplicable forward slant that could go away, as it ruins an otherwise not awful seat. Oh, and definitely less weight would be good. The wheel in particular are fantastically heavy. I think they might be made out of depleted uranium.

On a side note, while it won't ever happen, I'd love to see Yamaha offer two iterations of the bike, one with a more dirt focus, and one more touring focus, like Triumph is doing.