Stuck in Andalusia, Alabama with dead ST

[Don in Lodi]

Again, interesting. I don't know how practical it is though as running a vehicle until it quits is certainly not something you'd want to be doing regularly for safety reasons, let alone the inconvenience. And I'm sure someone is going to pipe up about how there is some evidence that running vehicles to empty is hard on fuel pumps. I don't know about motorcycles, but many, many car mfgs strongly recommend against the practice.

- Mark

LOL, I'm pretty sure he doesn't mean 'empty' to the point of sucking air. ::013::

 

[markjenn]

LOL, I'm pretty sure he doesn't mean 'empty' to the point of sucking air. ::013::

Well, for the strategy of "running it empty to get the sediments out of the tank" to make any difference, you do have to run it empty or very nearly so; filling up with a gallon left vs. a half-gallon left isn't going to make any difference. Like I said earlier, this strategy, if it works at all, is not very practical.

- Mark

 

[Don in Lodi]

Well, for the strategy of "running it empty to get the sediments out of the tank" to make any difference, you do have to run it empty or very nearly so; filling up with a gallon left vs. a half-gallon left isn't going to make any difference. Like I said earlier, this strategy, if it works at all, is not very practical.

- Mark

And, as I hypothesized, it allows the pump to over heat, maybe...

And hey!
::021::

 

[kenbike]

Post some Photo's of the fuel pump and filter unit when you get it back. The guys on the KTM site have been fighting the same issue and have come up with a few creative solutions. I want to bypass the tea bag and go in line. KTM claims you cannot clean the tea bag but I pulled mine and soaked over night and blew out with air and it looked brand new. maybe we should start pulling ours ever 10 to 15K and just wash it out so it does not plug up.
Going to check my manual for fuel pump replacement and get the o-ring or gasket and keep a spare on the bike. I will also install an inline after the pump. KTM left me dead on the road in a very bad spot with a plugged filter!

Running the tank to low and not have any gas around the pump will shorten the fuel pump life but your filters will be ok ::013::

 

[dcstrom]

Yes Please! I'd like the same info. I hadn't been too worried about a blocked filter, thinking it would mean a gradual decline in performance, just like happened on my Strom. But if it manifests as a sudden stop on the S10, I REALLY don't want to have to deal with that out here in the boonies somewhere - or if I have to, would like to know what kind of roadside repair to apply...

Trevor

 

[markjenn]

I hadn't been too worried about a blocked filter, thinking it would mean a gradual decline in performance, just like happened on my Strom. But if it manifests as a sudden stop on the S10, I REALLY don't want to have to deal with that out here in the boonies somewhere - or if I have to, would like to know what kind of roadside repair to apply...

Don't know how applicable car experience is to bikes, but my car experience is that blockage on a FI engine results in abrupt engine cutting out - basically as soon as the blockage results in fuel pressure dropping below a threshold, the injectors quit working - whereas on carb'ed engines, it comes on slowly with hesitation and surging.

- Mark

 

[Ahdrvr]

Update:
They replaced the fuel pump but they said yamaha may want the old one back due to it being under warranty. If i get it I will definitely post pics or maybe i will get a few at the shop if they need to keep it. If that is the case i obviously will not be able to tear it down.

I called them today because i expected it would be done by now and they said that after replacing the pump assy the surging and dying problem still exists. They have replaced the plugs as well, and say if they cant figure it out soon they will be talking to yamaha because they are at a loss.

 

[20valves]

My wife's car died shortly after a fill up at a Shell station on her way to Tulsa once. She called and I told her that was likely not a coincidence. It was towed to a local dealer and, sure enough, it was was badly contaminated fuel. We had the dealer back us up on the diagnosis and Shell paid the tab for about $1,500 worth of fuel injection work. I do feel it's reasonable for a consumer buying fuel to expect to have the fuel not stop the vehicle in its tracks.

Is there some entrepreneur out there that has fashioned a filter that filters the gas before it goes into the tank? Something with the same (better?) filtration capability as the "tea bag" that would fit onto the gas pump nozzle? I did a not-very-thorough google search and didn't see anything like this out there. Maybe that would slow the filling process so much that it wouldn't be practical?

With the fuel pumps/filters being so difficult to get to and so expensive to replace, if we could keep our pumps and filters from being exposed to sediment in the first place that would seem more practical than an involved fuel pump/filter project every 10K miles. I've got about 14K miles on my bike now and luckily, in Oklahoma, 100% gasoline is very easy to find. I realize that's no guarantee against sediment but I suppose it's pretty good insurance against ethanol woes. I've had no fueling issues but now feel like I'm whistling through the graveyard unless I pull the pump and check the filter.

 

[markjenn]

With the fuel pumps/filters being so difficult to get to and so expensive to replace, if we could keep our pumps and filters from being exposed to sediment in the first place that would seem more practical than an involved fuel pump/filter project every 10K miles. I've got about 14K miles on my bike now and luckily, in Oklahoma, 100% gasoline is very easy to find. I realize that's no guarantee against sediment but I suppose it's pretty good insurance against ethanol woes. I've had no fueling issues but now feel like I'm whistling through the graveyard unless I pull the pump and check the filter.

I have no data, but if you're worried about sediment and the general cleanliness of your fuel system, I would think seeking out pure gasoline would be a step in the wrong direction. The generally accepted best strategy for reducing one's chance of getting contaminated fuel is to refuel at larger-volume, more-modern stations with very high turnover rates of fuel. Selling pure gasoline is much more of a specialty business, typically sold from older stations and with much lower turnover. And many think ethanol probably keeps fuel systems cleaner.

- Mark

 

[dirtdigger570]

I am up and running again after replacement of entire assembly under warranty. They checked the pressure of old pump and it was in 20psi range. Should be 47psi. It was probably close to quitting again! I broke it down and took pictures, but I am too technically disadvantaged to get them posted. Sorry, but I am leaving tomorrow for the cooler climate of Colorado. I will be in the Silverton area for a couple of weeks.

dirtdigger doin it in the dirt!

 

[RogerJ]

RE: Filtering goop out of your gas before filling.....don't have any experience with this device but maybe others here do.

http://www.mrfunnel.com/Mr._Funnel/Home.html

 

[scott123007]

An interesting blurb I found in a Q & A about Costco gasoline. I'm sure many reputable stations adhere to this practice.

Station Maintenance
Good station operation and maintenance assures the fuel is filtered, and that no contaminants, such as sediment and water, find their way into our members' vehicles. Costco gas stations are well-maintained by our capable attendants so that only clean gasoline goes into your car. Costco uses fuel filters to catch any particles or debris larger than 10 microns in diameter. For comparison, the average human hair is seventy microns thick.
Our attendants check the nozzle flow rate frequently to assure that our filters are fresh. When the flow rate falls below 8 gallons per minute, we change the filter.
Costco uses ethanol-compatible filters designed to catch sediment, water, or phase-separated ethanol and water mixtures.
Costco's electronic sensors continuously monitor our underground storage tanks for water.
We physically sample our tanks at least weekly to confirm there is no contamination by both visual inspection and chemical detection.

 

[20valves]

...I would think seeking out pure gasoline would be a step in the wrong direction. The generally accepted best strategy for reducing one's chance of getting contaminated fuel is to refuel at larger-volume, more-modern stations with very high turnover rates of fuel.

You are obviously in a completely different fuel marketing environment in your part of the world. MOST stations in central Oklahoma advertise 100% gasoline, we don't have to "seek out" some obscure, low volume, 50's era mom & pop store. And as a matter of fact, the bad fuel my wife got was at a huge, busy Shell station selling E10.

 

[markjenn]

You are obviously in a completely different fuel marketing environment in your part of the world. MOST stations in central Oklahoma advertise 100% gasoline, we don't have to "seek out" some obscure, low volume, 50's era mom & pop store. And as a matter of fact, the bad fuel my wife got was at a huge, busy Shell station selling E10.

You're right, pure gas in my neck of the woods isn't very common. But I think most of the country is more like my situation than yours. And the previous post amplified what I was trying to say.... if your main concern is fuel contamination, big places like Costco which have huge turnover and lots of monitoring are your best bet to lessen the chances of contamination. As to your contamination incident, any one experience is very anecdotal.

I'm not interested in getting into the ethanol debate. I just don't think seeking out pure gasoline will do diddly-squat to lessen the chances of contaminated refueling.

- Mark

 

[dirtdigger570]

pic #1 shows orientation marks for realignment.
pic#2 is the tapered o-ring seal
pc#3 entire assembly
pic#4&5 are the "tea bag" fuel pick up
pic#6,7,8 are the pump

We missed a pic somehow of the sealed filter, that is part of this assembly. It is after the pump and somewhat discolored. It is integrated into this assembly. Sorry there is not a good look here.
note: The aluminum retainer ring covers the plastic assembly and seal so that the seal cannot be seen on installation. Use great caution here. The seal is a tapered o-ring and the taper goes toward the tank.

Thanks to my friend rotorblade for posting the pics.

dirtdigger

 

[20valves]

As to your contamination incident, any one experience is very anecdotal.

Roughly on the same level as your "I have no data..." statements.

I just don't think seeking out pure gasoline will do diddly-squat to lessen the chances of contaminated refueling.

And now we know what you think.

 

[jonkertb]

back on topic boys.....on that last picture with the filter "sock" wouldn't that be a replaceable item??? can it be bought / found on a parts list?
tom

 

[tenerejack]

Thanks for the pics dirkdiggler! That thing looks like a C.F.! I use Lucas ethanol treatment in my other machines. It's supposed to prevent the gummy varnish from happening. I think I'll keep a bottle on the bike and use it for every fill up.

 

[markjenn]

on that last picture with the filter "sock" wouldn't that be a replaceable item??? can it be bought / found on a parts list?

Unfortunately, no.

- Mark

 

[fredz43]

Perhaps as more of us get miles on our bikes and this continues to be a warranty item to replace the entire fuel pump because of a plugged filter, they will offer to sell just the tea bag looking filter element. Or would that be too simple?