Shorai Li-Iron battery for STen

[Judd]

Heads up on the Shorai recommended battery for the Super Tenere.

The battery Shorai has listed as fitting the 2014 Yamaha Super Tenere is not a good fit at all. The terminal's polarity is reversed as compared to OEM. Even if you flip the battery it's not a good fit as one would have to mod the terminals to work in the flipped orientation. Additionally, the positive cable has a groove it's run in it's OEM configuration and if flipped, would not be able to be placed in this groove and would have to run over the battery case which means the side panel would hit it when installed unless you did some "clearance". Otherwise, it fits fine once several layers of foam are placed on the case to make up for the smaller height. Shame the terminals are flipped but I'm glad I bought it locally as I woulda been some kind of perturbed had I had to ship it back. I think you either need to put a disclaimer that it's not technically a direct drop in {the slight height difference is no biggie and easily addressed by the foam Shorai supplies} and that one will need to reroute the cables and mod the cable's terminal ends for this battery to work. Some like me do not want to do that and if forced to, would pick a option that would give considerably more cranking ability and reserve than the LFX19A4-BS12 offers.

Does anyone have a nicely sized Li-Iron battery they have used in their Tenere? Like I said, if I'm gonna reroute cables, mod the cable terminals and possibly clearance the body panel,,,,, I want more than Shorai's supposed 285ca {the one I had stated 270 I think}.

 

[Spider]

I have the EarthX 36C in my Tenere and one other bike. Fit fine, works great. But I'm sure you've read the relatively long thread going over the pros and cons of lithium vs. regular batteries. I picked this one for the capacity and its built-in balancing circuitry. http://earthxbatteries.com/shop/etx36c

 

[Judd]

Well, that 36C is a damned near perfect fit {only 5mm larger in height} but holy crap,,,,,,,, 350$!!!!!! ??? ???


Nope,,,,, I don't mind the 200$ for the Shorai especially since that's basically what Ma Yamaha wanted for a OE replacement but I'll stick to AGM rather than fork over another 250$ plus for that 36C. If I only had another zero on the end of my yearly W2! :-[

 

[Spider]

The EarthX ET18C is their recommended battery for the Super Tenere, specs out about like the Shorai for the low $200s, I think.

 

[Judd]

Yep,,, saw the 18 when I was researching and thought hard about it. Also saw an Antigravity that rated at something like 480cca and it was 250$ but it was about 20mm taller which may or may not fit {was gonna get some modeling clay to verify but it's a moot point now}.

I did find this and I copied and pasted from a cross posted post on AdvRider-

Hmmm,,,, 'nother update. Check his un out-
https://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/lithium-iron-batteries/sstz14s-fp.html

I think I found a "winner",,, least for me. It'll fit fine as it's listed as being an replacement for the OE battery {actually smaller in height at around 94mm} as long as you throw in some spacer foam and it's got a whooping 387 cca, correct terminal polarity {I looked at the pic} and best thang,,,,,, cost is 150$ buck-a-roos!!!

Oh and BTW,,,,, it's got a 2yr free replacement {shipping will suck though} with a 3rd year warranted but pro-rated. All that and you save a lot of weight as it weighs 2lbs, stocker weighs around 8lbs I think.

Oh yea,,,, and all the reviews seemed kosher.

I would loved to have tried that 480cca Antigravity but this one is a drop in {no measuring, no whittling, no worrying} and it's nearly 100$ less with a better warranty but with a 100cca deficit but even at that, it's still 170cca stronger than the OE {which costs less and has a crappy warranty} and it's even 100cca stronger than the Shorai and a better warranty to boot!

I ordered one a bit ago. It's coming from a company I tend to trust as I bought a crap ton of rechargeable AAA, AA, C, D and 9V batteries along with a 12VDC/120AC universal charger based on their review way back in 2009 and I'm still using them. We'll see I reckon. I'll be sure to update when I get it and if memory serves, will update as to longevity on down the road.

 

[Judd]

Dang, jumped too fast as I found this right after I ordered-
https://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/lithium-iron-batteries/sstx20ch-fp.html

It's a smidge wider {like less than 2mm wider} which is my only concern but I think I can work with that by modifying or leaving the absorbent pad out. Length is the same, height is a smidge shorter by about 6mm which foam can fix.

But, it puts out 507cca and at 179$ it still costs less than the OE or Shorai batteries! I tried to change my order through their contact page but I'm guessing they will send my original order before they see my request. All my fault though for not looking further before placing the order.

 

[OldRider]

If you're going to run a Li-Iron battery watch this video for cold weather starting. Very informative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBfvR1EJJBk

 

[Checkswrecks]

If you're going to run a Li-Iron battery watch this video for cold weather starting. Very informative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBfvR1EJJBk

This guy is proudly showing that he drove the voltage on his lithium battery down to about 3.5 volts. That irreversibly copper plates the anode windings in the cells each time he does it, creating an internal leakage path. That very expensive battery is not going to last very long. You don't have to believe me, the following sentence is copied off of the Ballistic Batteries web-site:


"LiFePO4 batteries can become damaged if discharged below 8.0v."


If you look at the following plot, he is to the left of the "1000" on the Y-axis, toward the words "Cycle Life".

Yes, the lithium has a flatter discharge curve than AGM and will spin the motor faster, which always feels good. I really do understand why people like the lithium batteries. But the reality is that I (and others) have started my first Tenere with the stock YTZ12S AGM down into the low teens a number of times. The "14" (same case with more power) absolutely always starts the new bike without fail and you can find replacements for less than $100.


As discussed elsewhere, that and the couple of pounds saved in a 600 pound bike aren't worth the trade-off to me.

 

[Dogdaze]

As discussed elsewhere, that and the couple of pounds saved in a 600 pound bike aren't worth the trade-off to me.

^^^^^ ::026:: Just drop a few lbs on a diet and all is equal, and may help your back and posture, just saying. ::025::

 

[Judd]

I've been using Li-Iron since they came out as individual cells shrink wrapped together. At first most of the companies that offered them sized them on the small side and so when the cold temps hit, they really crapped out. I was one of those that bought an undersized example. I know that all Li-Irons are greatly effected by the cold and I'm not ignoring it which is why I buy the largest I can fit.

I have a XR650L that I removed the OE battery box and moved the battery to the top of the air box. I needed small and the weight saving was a plus. The first Li Iron I bought failed to crank it when it was below the 40s or so, wasn't real happy in the 50s either. It didn't last long. The second was an Antigravity and I sized the largest one I could fit in that spot which was rated at roughly twice the cca as the one it replaced and it still saved weight as compared to the OE lead acid/AGM alternatives. It's been in there for roughly two years or better now. It's cranked the bike reliably down to the low 30s and reluctantly several times in the 20s which is about as low as N. Ga. winters get. Once cranked and warmed up, it cranks great even when it sits for a hour or two. Had a Shorai {biggest I could fit, not their recommended} in my FJR for at least 2yrs and one on my DL650 {again, largest I could squeeze in} for a couple of years too and neither had issues and I ride all year so both were cranking in the 20s like the XR650L.

I do know for a fact that you can not totally discharge the Li Irons due to leaving something like leaving the key on. One deep discharge will kill your 200$ battery dead. But guess what, I found that the AGM react in much the same manner as I had a nearly brand new AGM die way out in the middle of nowhere when on a trip up to Labrador because I forgot I had several batteries charging in my top box that was wired for always on. I was able to jump the bike off but no amount of running would charge it back up and when I finally made it to an auto parts store they tested it as bad. So,,, the deep discharge issue isn't just a LI Iron issue at all. I will admit though that the old fashioned lead acid is more robust and reliable,,,, just can't install one sideways right!

My OE battery always started the bike but there were plenty of times it worried me due to slow cranking. Recently my instrument cluster started losing it's memory {clock, averages, trip and heated grip settings} so I decided to swap it out hence my latest investigations. I did get it tested at Batteries Plus and their tester noted that it need replacement.

 

[Judd]

Dang, jumped too fast as I found this right after I ordered-
https://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/lithium-iron-batteries/sstx20ch-fp.html

It's a smidge wider {like less than 2mm wider} which is my only concern but I think I can work with that by modifying or leaving the absorbent pad out. Length is the same, height is a smidge shorter by about 6mm which foam can fix.

But, it puts out 507cca and at 179$ it still costs less than the OE or Shorai batteries! I tried to change my order through their contact page but I'm guessing they will send my original order before they see my request. All my fault though for not looking further before placing the order.

An update on the update-

I was able to change my order from the SSTZ14S-FP which is the battery Scorpion has listed as the direct replacement for the Super Tenere for the SSTX20CH-FP. The 14S is actually considerably smaller in dimensions than the OE AGM is rated by the distributer as having 387cca. The 20CH is actually listed as being slightly larger than the OE AGM and considerably larger than the 14S.

Well folks,,,,,, the 20CH is basically a perfect match to the OE AGM. Pretty much the exact same dimensions in L X W X H and the terminal polarity is the same. Only difference between the two is the Scorpion is 5.7lbs lighter than the OE Yuasa{as measured on a crappy home scale} and the cca rating {210cca for the OE Yuasa AGM rated by Yuasa and 507cca as rated by independent distributor testing}.

So, if you are looking for a Li Iron battery that's fits just like the OE Yuasa {most if not all Li Iron batteries I found listed for the ST are actually considerably smaller in dimensions and you have to use foam or some kind of spacers to make up the difference} the Scorpion SSTX20CH-FP is pretty much a perfect drop in. I found most if not Li Iron batteries I found listed for the ST are actually considerably smaller in dimensions and you have to use foam or some kind of spacers to make up the difference. The smaller size usually {in pretty much every case} amounted to significantly less output {387cca vs 507cca apples to apples in this case}. The significant difference in output will make a significant difference in cranking especially at colder temps where the Li Iron batteries are at a real disadvantage as compered to the OE AGM battery.

Will the significant difference result in reliable cranking in cold weather? I'll find out shortly folks. Least we now know the SSTX20CH-FP is actually a perfect fit. Going by the distributer's own testing I gained 120cca {basically like gaining a small battery for something like a XR650L worth of extra cranking power} over the already stronger than OE replacement Li Iron. The difference between the 20CH and the OE AGM is basically like having an extra OE AGM paralleled in with the original, least in temps in the 50s and up.

 

[WJBertrand]

Got any photos of the battery as installed?

 

[SilverBullet]

Probably a stupid question but is there any downside to using such a higher CCA rated battery?

_

 

[Judd]

Got any photos of the battery as installed?

Didn't take any. Whould be a boring looksee though because it fits as original. 'Sposed to be getting coldish in the next day or three, should be able to check cranking down to the high 20s or so.

 

[Judd]

Probably a stupid question but is there any downside to using such a higher CCA rated battery?

_

Nope.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Probably a stupid question but is there any downside to using such a higher CCA rated battery?

_

Just money and adding the potential failure modes of going to lithium.

 

[SilverBullet]

Just money and adding the potential failure modes of going to lithium.

Yes I'm well aware of the pros/cons of lithium. I prefer AGM but that increase in CCA is tempting although pricey. For potential problems was thinking something like overworking the charging system. Whether true or not I've heard it is not good to charge a low battery with the bike. So near dead battery being charged back to 500 CCA could have impact?

But either 210 CCA AGM or 500 CCA lithium I'm still carrying a backup lithium pack so not worried about getting stranded.

_

 

[Chuck B]

www.alienmotion.com LiFePo was a good fit in my Gen1. I ran it for a couple years but decided the Li wasn't a good fit for my usages. Swapped the battery for an AGM and put the Li in another bike.

 

[Judd]

www.alienmotion.com LiFePo was a good fit in my Gen1. I ran it for a couple years but decided the Li wasn't a good fit for my usages. Swapped the battery for an AGM and put the Li in another bike.

What didn't you like about the Li Iron? Once I learned to fit the largest Li Iron I could in the spot I had, I didn't see any draw backs except the possibility of leaving the key or an accessory on and ruining the battery due to that. But in my experiences, the high performance AGMs do the exact same thing when run totally down.

 

[Judd]

Yes I'm well aware of the pros/cons of lithium. I prefer AGM but that increase in CCA is tempting although pricey. For potential problems was thinking something like overworking the charging system. Whether true or not I've heard it is not good to charge a low battery with the bike. So near dead battery being charged back to 500 CCA could have impact?

But either 210 CCA AGM or 500 CCA lithium I'm still carrying a backup lithium pack so not worried about getting stranded.

_

I suppose that if you had a really, really strong stator with a lot of wattage, you could hurt the battery itself if you charged it from nearly dead but no, it shouldn't hurt the bike at all. Matter of fact, it should be better on older style bikes with the shunt type regulators since the regulators basically dump excess electrical wattage into a heat sink as heat.