Shaft Drive System vs Chain Drive. Any final drive optional ring and pinion gear sets available?

RCinNC

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Here's the thing, Chris, and you've demonstrated this tactic on multiple threads in here. You start a thread (or you hijack someone else's) where you ostensibly ask a question that makes it look like you're trying to seek information about something, but it's nothing more than a springboard for you to tell everyone who responds to your "query" how they're wrong for not doing things the way you do them. There's a perfect example of your tactics in your response to Dirt Dad's post. He told you why he prefers a chain over a shaft drive; a person without an agenda who was actually seeking information would just absorb that information and move on. You, on the other hand, because what you really want to do is tell everyone how they're wrong for not sharing your opinion, immediately belittle his honest response with "Come on now, spraying or squirting a little lube on the chain takes less time than doing a proper post check or pre trip ride. Chains are not that big a deal to maintain at all. " Your response isn't that of someone seeking information, and it aptly demonstrates that your thread is just a setup for you to deliver your words of wisdom on the Ballisticexchris way of doing things. Basically, you're telling Dirt Dad that his personal opinion (and his choice) is wrong, and that's not the goal of an honest attempt to seek information; it's simply ridiculous and argumentative. You did the same thing on the threads about E07 tires; you weren't really interested why guys who rode them preferred them (though you certainly prefaced your thread with the idea that it was a thirst for knowledge), because you argued with them ad nauseam over the very specific reasons they gave why they chose them. You simply wanted to argue with people that your choices were better than theirs. If you want to argue with other members then fine, argue with them; but your "I'm just seeking information" posts are disingenuous. You hijacked one of my recent threads about any potential problems with Super Teneres over 100,000 miles to once again regale everyone with your scrupulous maintenance routine, which had nothing to do with why I started the thread and nothing to do with the information I was seeking, and you continued doing it even after I asked the thread in general to get back on topic.

I don't know if you're deliberately trolling, but I do know that your "hey, I'm just asking questions" type posts and your responses to others look more and more like thinly veiled attempts for you to be able to argue with people about the rightness of your opinion over theirs. Maybe that isn't your intent, but I believe that's how it comes across to more than a few members on here. Maybe you could eliminate some confusion by titling your threads more accurately, such as "I like chains and everyone who doesn't is wrong"; at least the members who weighed in on the topic would know your real intent for the thread, and wouldn't waste their time offering their own opinions when you actually aren't interested in what those opinions are.
 

ballisticexchris

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Don't misunderstand me. I think this is a fantastic bike. I'm just looking to improve what I have. It's not going to be a deal breaker if I can't get a ring and pinion set for it.
 

EricV

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I'm all about the slow speed handling. I have spent hours upon hours in parking lots practicing slow speed riding on this bike. When I say slow I mean slow baby crawl to almost track standing. Sure I can use the clutch, I'm not a wimp. Lower gearing would help. I figure after time it will get easier. I'm just not there yet. I'm still struggling to do full lock to lock turns standing full lean with the clutch all the way out. On my Beta I'm able to do full lock to lock turns clutch out. It's because of the gearing and low idle.
Ok, so you want a slower idle mph strictly to practice low speed maneuvers in parking lots? That defeats the purpose of practicing. I could do lock to lock turns in parking lots with the S10 at idle. So can you, if you continue to practice. Stop wishing for something you don't have and work with what you do have.

On the freeway I find that I'm running in 5th gear and have to think about shifting into 6th. This tells me the gearing is a bit too high. I'm sure over time I'll get used to it. I have not ridden it frequently enough to adapt. That being said, my preference is have lower gearing so the bike will suit my needs. Not so easy with the shaft drive to swap gearing for different riding conditions.
Again, there is nothing wrong with the bike. You have no practical reason to not shift up to 6th gear. You're just not accustomed to a bike with this much torque that can run 75 mph at 4200 rpm. I thought you had a Gen II, but perhaps I am mistaken. If you do have a Gen II, why aren't you paying attention to your gear indicator, since you're apparently not paying attention to your shifts.

I have a full container of different sprockets and chains that I've used over the years for different types of riding. For both street bikes and my dirt bikes. It was no big deal at all to change out to lower gearing for a day in the canyons or on dirt bike slap on my 10 paddle and drop the countershaft for the dunes. When traveling cross country or days in the desert I raise the gearing.
Technology is a wonderful thing. Throw that junk in the recycle bin where it belongs. Real motorcycles have power bands that are broad and capable throughout the rpm band. The transmission is a torque multiplier. Not one of the bikes you had chain drive on was over a liter in displacement. Let's be clear. You did not own motorcycles before. You owned toys and you played with your toys. That's fine. The Super Tenere is a tool, not a toy.

Now, read the words again and how about you just answer my question this time?

Under what riding conditions do you feel the need for speeds under 7 mph?
 

ballisticexchris

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No worries here. I will have no problem doing lock to lock turns at some point. With the clutch out, standing, leaning, and modulating just the rear brake, not so sure.

I'm not so sure this bike can u turn in the space of 1 1/2 parking stall widths. I use up 2 full spaces!! For me sitting and turning is easier on the Super Tenere. I do know there is a lot of room to improve by standing. I'm just not there yet......
 

EricV

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Under what riding conditions do you feel the need for speeds under 7 mph?
 

EricV

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Nothing more than improving my balance skills. The slower the better.
So you have zero reason for wanting a lower idle mph. You don't practice with a bazooka to improve your rifle skills. You practice with the rifle. Peg weighting and shifting body weight, pushing the bike to the inside of the turns at uber low speed and some other techniques will improve your ability to do low speed turns at parking lot speeds.

Will a lower travel speed with the clutch out make those easier? Maybe, but you don't have that. So what's the point of making it easier? Learning to ride what you have is the point of practicing.

I have suggested repeatedly that you take some classes to improve your skills. The forum in general could spend months telling you how to improve, but one class will do a lot more to actually improve your skills if you listen to the instructors.

All this crap and pot stirring and you can't even give a practical reason for what you claim to want. I stand by my original post in this thread. Stop trolling the forum.

Buy a used trials bike if you just want to work on your slow speed balance skills. That's what Trials is all about.
 

Checkswrecks

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Pruning shears are out for the posts which have been really more AT the other person. Yes, there is subjectivity in th clipping but at the same time you're smart guys and we all know each other at this point so no warnings given.
 

EricV

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Sorry. I tried to stop the madness with my first post. I was unsuccessful for the forum, or for myself. I have a low tolerance for stupid these days.
 

squarebore

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Nothing more than improving my balance skills. The slower the better.
I did police rider training for a day on an invite. For slow speed manoeuvering they increase the idle speed so you actually ride faster. Told us not to use the clutch. I learnt to do really fast u turns at full lock. Pegs scraping on their FJRs. Seemed really weird at first but a good skill to learn.

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Cycledude

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Once again, under what circumstances do you feel you want to ride at speeds under 7 mph for any sustained period? @Cycledude feel free to share the circumstances when this would better meet your needs as well.
Well the Tenere is my first dual purpose bike since my 1966 Honda 160 Scrambler. Yes the Tenere will do 7mph in first gear on a good hard surface but on a soft surface it will choke off way To easily unless you are continually slipping the clutch and if you have 3 miles to cover like that it gets old pretty quick. Yes Sometimes you could Speed up to about 13mph which is a speed the Tenere engine is very capable of maintaining but if you do wind up dropping it in tough going at 13mpg good luck To both you and the Tenere.
I realize all the dual purpose bike manufacturers seem to love using these twin cylinder engines but to me it seems to be a mistake. My 6 cylinder Goldwing will go about 4.7 mph in first gear and will not choke off very easily, it’s actually capable of starting out in any gear 1-5 without touching the throttle, a Tenere will start out in 1-3 without touching the throttle but it will rattle terrible Starting out in 3rd. No I’m not saying they should be building 6 cylinder Tenere’s but I do suspect a 3 cylinder engine with proper gearing might actually work better.
i have never taken a ride on a 1200GS but this talk is making me interested enough to want to take a test ride to see what BMW’s gearing is actually like.
 

EricV

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The GL1800 has torque levels of a car. And weight approaching that of a car too, some would say. :cool: My personal experience is going too slow is more likely to cause a crash than a little faster, off pavement, in reasonable terms. Wheels have a gyroscopic effect. If they are spinning they want to keep spinning. At a very low speed, you lose that gyroscopic effect and you're just struggling to keep all the weight of the bike upright as you creep forward. I have seen riders crash on pavement in high winds because they went too slow. They couldn't absorb the gusts and the bike didn't have enough gyroscopic energy to help them stay upright.

Keeping the hands loose on the bars and letting it move around may feel uncomfortable, but it's generally successful in soft conditions. Every single time my wife wants to struggle with her GSA in 1st gear, I'm doing fine on the S10 in second gear at a faster speed, though still slow. And she has trophies for hare scrambles and a lot more dirt experience than I do. I'm far from a great dirt rider, but I'm competent. Oh, and the BMWs won't go slower than about 11 mph. At least on every variant of GS I have ridden, (F650GS2, F800GS, R1200GS (air/oil&water head). Perhaps the older 1150 versions had lower gearing. I seem to recall an "adventure transmission" was available during some period of that history.

If I had three miles of deep sand to ride thru, I'd find another route. I do not like sand much at all.
 

ballisticexchris

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Hi there Eric, It sounds to me that I'm not the only one who struggles at slow speeds. ;) Keeping this bike upright with both feet on the pegs can be tough when at a stop or super slow in turns.

One of the first things I learned in riding school is speed masks balance. If you are having a hard time staying upright at slow speed, bad things can happen at high speed. I strive to stay balanced at the slowest speed possible. It is very difficult to master. As long as the bike is creeping even a little bit (in a straight line) it's not that hard to keep it upright using just the weight of your feet on the pegs.

Where I struggle the most is when I come to a complete stop and attempt a track stand or stopping and restarting in mid turn. Some of my riding buddies are amazing at it. Just not me. I'm still too chicken to attempt mid turn stop/starts on this heavy of a bike.

Sand is one area that has never been an issue until I got this bike. The 19" front wheel and weight of this bike make it very hard for me to navigate the deep stuff.

On a lighter fun note, this sure was one hell of a birthday ride. This is morning with a small countershaft sprocket, paddle and front sand tire. Then I had to chop the throttle so as to not overshoot the dune:

death valley dunes paddle.jpg

After I got the big dunes out of my system, I slapped on higher gearing and my Kenda Big Blocks for a Death Valley off road run. This picture here was a wakeup call as to why not to take a bike into a deep bowl if you are not 100% sure you can make it out. It took me 2 tries and flipping the bike over to get out of this predicament. The rest of the day was spent touring the back roads of Death Valley.
death valley dunes.jpg

This picture represents the ride that made me decide to start saving really hard for the Super Tenere. This was just a few years ago. I was reminded that I'm aging out of long miles in the saddle on the small bikes. The bikes themselves are perfectly capable. My body balks at long mile days on these bikes. As a side note my buddy got his Indian stuck to the floorboards in the mud shortly after this picture was taken. This was another Death Valley ride over 850 mile round trip right from my driveway.

E77C38AB-E293-4D45-BFAB-FCCFF6CFA54E.jpeg

Hence my original question of optional gearing for this bike. It's no big deal working with what I have. Since putting on a nice set of street rubber I have transformed my Super Tenere bike into a very comfortable day ride and long mile touring machine.

Let's face it every bike has a few shortcomings. This bike is no different. Some guys want to modify it with a re-flash, ABS disconnect, etc. I want to modify mine with gearing. I'm very aware that might not be feasible on this bike but thought I would ask anyway. Now if I can just remember to click it into 6th gear on the freeway:)

Enjoy your ride and happy trails to all!!!
 

EricV

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Where I struggle the most is when I come to a complete stop and attempt a track stand
And you're doing this because? I never found track standing useful on a bicycle, street or MTB, never mind a motorcycle. I've ridden thousands of miles of single track all over the west coast and never once run into a situation where track standing would be useful.

Conversely, I know several motorcycle friends in several states that have been cited for failure to stop at stop signs because they did a track stand instead of putting a foot down. (most got off in court, just some uptite LEO having a bad day).

Have you considered a scooter? They are light weight, tons of fun and inspire low speed skills. And still useful for grocery getting, etc.
 

ballisticexchris

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What trails have you ridden out here Eric? Almost all the black diamond to double black diamond single track we have require a lot of stopping and starting, switchbacks, rocks, etc. And with the exception of the Piute's I have ridden or raced on almost all the major single track trails here in Southern CA West coast region.

Funny, but I enjoy riding my brothers Aprilia scooter. IMHO any kind of slow speed balancing skills are good for riding. Track standing is very useful when stopping to pick a line or loft your wheel to clear obstacles where you can't dab a foot in nasty terrain. On street bikes it's an excellent tool for making quick direction changes in tight parking lots without dabbing a foot. Really good riders can compress the forks at a stop and roll back a few feet and continue without dabbing a foot.

On the Super Tenere it's just plain enjoyable and helpful for everyday riding skills to practice it. I enjoy bringing my small cones in a parking lot and practicing in a controlled atmosphere. It's something I've done for years on all my bikes. I'm not so good at it but it's fun and that's what riding is all about.

Riding 101 is all about balance and traction on two wheels. I can assure you that if you can do it at slow speeds or stopped, it will be helpful as the speeds increase. Consequently if you can't balance at slow speeds then the high speed is going to suffer.

There is a lot of science to balance and the neuromuscular system. I was shocked at how much just simple at home balancing exercises help. Just a seemingly simple thing like standing on one leg, closing your eyes and counting to 30 is a challenge. Between riding school and my physical therapy I have learned a lot about balancing and the positive effects it has to our health and riding skills.
 

WJBertrand

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I’m kinda pissed about the gearing on my Super Ténéré too. I took it to the airport yesterday ran it WFO all the way down the strip, plenty fast, but no way would it get airborne. I had to brake pretty hard to avoid the fence at the end. Damn near died! Pretty crappy of Yamaha to build a bike so flawed that it can’t even get enough air to clear the fence at the end of the runway! I’ve got the optional wind wings and everything! Don’t they know most airports have a fence at the end of the runway?


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tallpaul

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I’m kinda pissed about the gearing on my Super Ténéré too. I took it to the airport yesterday ran it WFO all the way down the strip, plenty fast, but no way would it get airborne. I had to brake pretty hard to avoid the fence at the end. Damn near died! Pretty crappy of Yamaha to build a bike so flawed that it can’t even get enough air to clear the fence at the end of the runway! I’ve got the optional wind wings and everything! Don’t they know most airports have a fence at the end of the runway?


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Schoolboy error there. You need an open field airstrip, not the larger commercial places. Try going faster and flap both of your arms. You need a cruise control for this, obviously. Oh, I nearly forgot, fill both tyres with helium. Just use regular air for the ride to the airstrip then swap to helium once you're there. Take a tank of helium with you, it is easier to to do this away from your workshop and I always carry a f*cking enormous tank of helium everywhere I go, just in case the mood takes me to go up up and away...
 

squarebore

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I’m kinda pissed about the gearing on my Super Ténéré too. I took it to the airport yesterday ran it WFO all the way down the strip, plenty fast, but no way would it get airborne. I had to brake pretty hard to avoid the fence at the end. Damn near died! Pretty crappy of Yamaha to build a bike so flawed that it can’t even get enough air to clear the fence at the end of the runway! I’ve got the optional wind wings and everything! Don’t they know most airports have a fence at the end of the runway?


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That is really surprising! You have enough power to overcome drag. Just need enough lift to overcome weight. Perhaps the diff oil is too heavy. Can you use a lighter weight oil? And next time don't brake. You have to commit and believe in the bike.

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EricV

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What trails have you ridden out here Eric? Almost all the black diamond to double black diamond single track we have require a lot of stopping and starting, switchbacks, rocks, etc. And with the exception of the Piute's I have ridden or raced on almost all the major single track trails here in Southern CA West coast region.

Funny, but I enjoy riding my brothers Aprilia scooter. IMHO any kind of slow speed balancing skills are good for riding. Track standing is very useful when stopping to pick a line or loft your wheel to clear obstacles where you can't dab a foot in nasty terrain. On street bikes it's an excellent tool for making quick direction changes in tight parking lots without dabbing a foot. Really good riders can compress the forks at a stop and roll back a few feet and continue without dabbing a foot.

On the Super Tenere it's just plain enjoyable and helpful for everyday riding skills to practice it. I enjoy bringing my small cones in a parking lot and practicing in a controlled atmosphere. It's something I've done for years on all my bikes. I'm not so good at it but it's fun and that's what riding is all about.

Riding 101 is all about balance and traction on two wheels. I can assure you that if you can do it at slow speeds or stopped, it will be helpful as the speeds increase. Consequently if you can't balance at slow speeds then the high speed is going to suffer.

There is a lot of science to balance and the neuromuscular system. I was shocked at how much just simple at home balancing exercises help. Just a seemingly simple thing like standing on one leg, closing your eyes and counting to 30 is a challenge. Between riding school and my physical therapy I have learned a lot about balancing and the positive effects it has to our health and riding skills.
The short response is we apparently ride bicycles just as differently as we ride motorcycles. I rode to go places and see things. Mt biking grew out of my hiking. I got tired of being limited to 10-20 mile day hikes, so started Mt biking to go farther and see more. I lived outside Portland, OR for 45 years and hiked most of the trails in the Columbia River Gorge between Hood River and Troutdale on the OR side. The WA side was better for motorcycle riding. Mt Hood National Forest was a favorite, as in the '90's wilderness trails were legal for Mt biking, but many of the popular hiking trails were illegal. USFS and Fire Area maps led me to all kinds of trails. I vacationed to Moab and Leadville to ride trails, (and slick rock in Moab). I typically legged all my rides out of town or campgrounds. OR and WA were the bulk of my trail riding because I could hop in the car, drive to a forest location way out from the paved roads and ride a 20-50 mile trail loop on wilderness trails and then toss the bike in the car and drive home for dinner. Wilderness trails are all over around Mt Hood, Mt Adams, Mt Rainier, etc. I rode into My St Helens on roads that were closed to vehicle traffic at times.

I don't stop unless I'm taking a break. I never found any appeal in down hill Mt Biking, so only did the ski slope type trails a few times with someone else that wanted to do that. I've ridden around Mt Tam and Marin Co when that was the "thing" in the mid 90's,, and it's a beautiful area, but that scene didn't appeal to me much. I'd rather be off by myself in the middle of a forest trail and see no one all day on a 30 mile trail ride. Track standing, or trail stops, or Trials Stops, depending on what sport you're doing, have their place, but it's not something I used while on actual rides. Look ahead, pick the line and keep moving. Bunny hopping a log, ditch, overside water bar or launching off a bolder or ledge didn't require me stopping. My chain rings were 22/34/46 with a 12-36 cassette. I didn't need to stop for anything except being tired. I was just as happy to ride up hill as down and preferred technical single track over fire roads, but was fine using fire roads to connect trail sections and often did that when putting together a loop route to ride from someplace I could park the car and leave it.

Every single motorcycle ride I take I routinely am doing tight u turns on a small road several times during the ride and often navigating off pavement sections while exploring as well as just riding along down a paved road. I ride to go see places. I'm not bothered by what obstacles I encounter, it's just part of riding. The problem many people have, including my wife, is that while she can practice well in the parking lot, she doesn't use those skills during her rides. She will in fact avoid using those skills instead of just doing what she practiced in the parking lot on a gravel road or narrow single lane road when she needs to turn around. That means the practice hasn't carried over to the rest of her riding. I do practice now and then in parking lots, but I ride that way all the time so I use those skills. Everyone is different. It's good to practice and challenge yourself, but what challenges you doesn't really challenge me. I'm sure the opposite is true in some areas too.

Balance is part of riding. But you are forgetting that movement and momentum are also part of riding. Momentum is always your friend on a bicycle. It's a friend on a motorcycle too. As is movement around the center of gravity. Understanding how to stay moving forward while maintaining momentum and balance are basic riding skills. Balancing at a stop may improve those skills, but by itself it serves no purpose. You're never going to do that in an actual ride for any useful purpose. It's just as easy to unclip and put a foot down. Riding styles vary. If you see my brake light on a motorcycle, I'm almost always stopping. Other people wear out brake pads from trail braking and braking into corners. I don't ride like that.
 
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