Sand

[DarkLeftArm]

So I am a relative rookie to riding motorcycles in general. almost 3 years and about 25000 miles total on big heavy street bikes. I bought my S10 on Thursday, Rode it almost 900 miles on Friday, Took it on a group ride on pavement to show it off to my friends on Sunday. This morning, I went out alone, in search of some dirt roads. This being the desert southwest, My search was short. I headed up a powerline trail, and within half a mile, it dropped down into a dry river bed. Deep, dry sand. In my pickup, or a sand rail, or even an old ATC, the rule of thumb is "more throttle!" Keep on top of the sand. Well I probably don't have to tell anybody here what happened. Seems like the more throttle, the faster I tipped the damn thing over! 2 times in about 15 minutes. Of course, soft sand is a good thing to fall into. Not a scratch on anything but my ego, of course. Got outta there, and not to be whipped, found some hard bottom faster dirt roads and had a blast, bruised ego and all.
So what's the secret to deep sand? I know somebody here has an answer. I have seen motorcycles in the sand before. Just not ones with me on them!

Thanks for reading my rant.
Bert

 

[Dirt_Dad]

Only dropped twice in 15 minutes of deep sand riding? You're already better than me.

 

[GrahamD]

So what's the secret to deep sand?

Light bikes with fat tires.

I used to have trouble on pushbikes in sand. It's just a pain. You just take it easy and practice practice practice. AT least it's soft.

 

[eemsreno]

Do you have real tires on your bike or the street junk it came with?
It makes the bike ridable with real tires.

 

[Checkswrecks]

I think eemsreno is being generous.
And you were totally right in that the operative term is to float. As in to displace (or not) the surface that you are on.


At no/low speed, the weight of the bike overcomes the friction between sand particles, so they become like ball bearings and down we go. Wider flotation tires and/or more knobby tread to sink in help a lot, but each has a practical limit.


Alternatively, the reason the guys float across dunes in the desert videos is because they are going fast enough to not stay where the sand is being displaced. They also are going fast enough for the wheels to act as gyroscopes.

 

[klunsford]

::026::

I think eemsreno is being generous.
And you were totally right in that the operative term is to float. As in to displace (or not) the surface that you are on.


At no/low speed, the weight of the bike overcomes the friction between sand particles, so they become like ball bearings and down we go. Wider flotation tires and/or more knobby tread to sink in help a lot, but each has a practical limit.


Alternatively, the reason the guys float across dunes in the desert videos is because they are going fast enough to not stay where the sand is being displaced. They also are going fast enough for the wheels to act as gyroscopes.

::026:: good answer checkswrecks

 

[Poohbear]

Also, what nobody has mentioned yet, stand up and lean forward to get the weight off the driving wheel

 

[Siseneg]

Also, what nobody has mentioned yet, stand up and lean forward to get the weight off the driving wheel

uh oh ... I used to hike the weight back and let the front float. Gave a lighter touch to that plow called a front wheel and kept the rear digging. . Maybe this was just a KLR tactic as I've not run into deep sand on the S10 yet (still have the Battlewings, so it is .. umm .. prudent ::013:

 

[AVGeek]

Agreed, weight back, loose grip on the handlebars, get the front end as light as possible. More throttle to keep your momentum up (momentum is your friend in sand).

 

[Siseneg]

Also, when you DO fall ... and you will; with the weight back and your butt hiked over the tail you tend to not go over the handlebars as much

 

[DarkLeftArm]

Wow. What a lot of good responses. Thank you.
The tires are Heidenau... uh... The more street looking tread design. Not the scout. Maybe would have had better luck with a lot less air pressure, more speed, and rear weight distribution, and a loose grip. I distinctly remember trying to muscle it to stay upright. Probably try to avoid sand washes from now on. There is even an ordinance in my county prohibiting motor vehicles in sand washes. What was I thinkin?... ;D

 

[Siseneg]

Lower tire pressure definiitely makes a difference, keeps the knife-edge a little duller out front. I used to run 12 psi in the fornt and 16 in the rear on the KLR, with the rim locks in. Probably can't do quite that low that on the Tenere tho (don't know what the lower limits are).

 

[20valves]

TC OFF!! NO TC1 in sand, probably not even TC2!! And I agree, you must be standing for the best control.

 

[DarkLeftArm]

I have not yet messed with the traction control button. I have witnessed the joyful difference between T and S on the performance side. I think the TC is on 1, and the light flashed very reproachfully when I tried to spin the tire on hard dirt. Next time I hit dirt I will experiment a little. Probably read the owner's manual a little more, too.
Fact is, after I went down.... both times, it restarted easily, but stalled out almost immediately when I tried to go. Had to really rev it up and slip the clutch to make forward motion. Just doesn't like sand much. Was that the Traction Control business complaining? If so, I wonder if on 3 my wheel would have been spinning, propelling me forward?...
As said earlier, though, sand IS nice and soft.

 

[Don in Lodi]

I have not yet messed with the traction control button. I have witnessed the joyful difference between T and S on the performance side. I think the TC is on 1, and the light flashed very reproachfully when I tried to spin the tire on hard dirt. Next time I hit dirt I will experiment a little. Probably read the owner's manual a little more, too.
Fact is, after I went down.... both times, it restarted easily, but stalled out almost immediately when I tried to go. Had to really rev it up and slip the clutch to make forward motion. Just doesn't like sand much. Was that the Traction Control business complaining? If so, I wonder if on 3 my wheel would have been spinning, propelling me forward?...
As said earlier, though, sand IS nice and soft.

TC1 will stop all slippage, thus the stalling every time you tried to get going. Don't use it anywhere a stall might be a problem, creek crossing also come to mind. I like TC2, it stops free spinning which you'll get with things turned Off, but it doesn't stop wheel spin altogether which keeps the engine from stalling. I've climbed a couple steep rocky runs, 4wd recommended, in TC2, very impressive control. Haven't found any deep sand to play in yet. Snow was interesting, I need to try that one again.

 

[phplemel]

You better ask JaimeV for some advise )
Have you seen this?
http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=7312.msg129434;topicseen#new

 

[DarkLeftArm]

Holy mackerel. I'm starting to feel a little better after seeing those pics. Seems deep sand truly is a bit of a buggabboo for these relatively heavy machines. Go figure... :-\