Safety of pannier boxes

[toompine]

Over on the ADV Rider forum there is a thread Boxes or Bags http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=669478
A portion or the thread brought up a topic I was unfamiliar with and that was riders being injured by their hard cases. I had thought there might be a safety factor in a tip over in that the boxes might keep your leg/foot from being trapped under the bike. However there are reports of ankles and legs broken, presumably when "footing" along a trail and the foot gets dragged back under the bag and snapped ???.

Is this just a rare occurance or do the hard bags have some built in risk to them? I assume the risk could be mitigated by smaller bags (not as tall) or mounting higher or even further back.

I have Givi's on my Multistrada but have never been in a situation like might occur with the Super Tenere. What is the collective opinion of this group? Not to worry? be carefull? soft bags? :

 

[ptfjjj]

I, for one, would not want ride in any rugged terrain with big, bulky side cases like the Jesse's. They probably offer the most volume with the lowest cg while hugging closest to the bike, but the bulk of the cases seems more likely to hinder maneuverability and limit the rider's ability to throw a leg back in a last ditch effort to stifle a topple. If you have big, bulky hard bags and want to venture into more rugged terrain, I think it would be wise to stash them somewhere for later retrieval.

 

[2XADV]

Side cases can hit you if you put your leg down, but they also protect you when you go down/lowside.

Putting your foot down while moving with this heavy of a bike is a quick path to an injury even without sidecases. It is hard not to want to "take a dab" once in awhile though. I have had my leg hit by my side cases or trapped for millisecond after "taking a dab".

I actually attended "American Supercamps" (a dirt TRACK riding school, not a MX/Trailriding school) to practice dirt road riding without putting my foot down. When I told them what kind of dirt roads and what kind of bike I would be riding they advised at the school to practice NOT putting my leg out on corners or I would break it in real life. During the school I may have fallen more than the people who put their leg down, but they said that it will make you a better street and dirt/mud road rider if you train yourself not to "take a dab" while riding.

 

[ptfjjj]

Side cases can hit you if you put your leg down, but they also protect you when you go down/lowside.

Putting your foot down while moving with this heavy of a bike is a quick path to an injury even without sidecases. It is hard not to want to "take a dab" once in awhile though. I have had my leg hit by my side cases or trapped for millisecond after "taking a dab".

I actually attended "American Supercamps" (a dirt TRACK riding school, not a MX/Trailriding school) to practice dirt road riding without putting my foot down. When I told them what kind of dirt roads and what kind of bike I would be riding they advised at the school to practice NOT putting my leg out on corners or I would break it in real life. During the school I may have fallen more than the people who put their leg down, but they said that it will make you a better street and dirt/mud road rider if you train yourself not to "take a dab" while riding.

Thanks for that input and I completely agree. I, too, always tried my best to keep my feet planted on the pegs while bouncing along an aggressive dirt track or adventure style trail. My concern, while not really a big deal, is for those slow speed moments where an obstacle puts you in a bind and you are going down if you can't plant a foot in the right direction. IMHO, I don't think anyone with any off road riding experience will have this problem, cuz they will not likely do this kind of riding without removing any big and bulky bags first.

 

[spklbuk]

Soft bags for me and spkldoe.

The side cases on my FJR have proven themselves in a low side one up getoff, but I'm sure glad spkldoe was not on behind me...or maybe I wouldn't have reached quite as far for my wild oats in the first place if she had been? Still going w/ soft bags as almost every trip out will involve some leaving the pavement .

 

[markjenn]

My opinion is that this is one of those things where "it depends on the situation", but in general, I think the heavier, bigger, wider, and more rigid your luggage, the more chance it will possibly cause an accident or make the injury consequences of an accident worse. Everything has tradeoffs.

- Mark

 

[Brntrt]

My opinion is that this is one of those things where "it depends on the situation", but in general, I think the heavier, bigger, wider, and more rigid your luggage, the more chance it will possibly cause an accident or make the injury consequences of an accident worse. Everything has tradeoffs.

- Mark

Have to agree with Mark on this. I have HT Tetons on my KLR and during some of my go downs the panniers have actually kept my legs from being crushed by the weight of the bike. I've alson damn near snapped an ankle or a leg after dragging leg to avoid a fall. These panniers are mounted really high to avoid catching my legs yet it still happens. That being said and the overall weight of panniers I'm going with Giant Loop on the S10. The S10 carries it weight low and I want my luggage to ride low and tight.

 

[switchback]

I've gone down with panniers a couple of times and in each case the panniers did no harm and protected the bike. Much rather replace an accessory than bike parts. I have gone down without panniers and had my leg stuck. That said panniers also limit movement and add weight when off-road. Again there are trade-offs with everything and no right answer.

 

[Koinz]

Interesting topic. I've never had an issue with side cases, but I don't typically do any hardcore offroading.

I was wondering if there is any positional adjustment on the on the oem cases to move them back slightly for more rider room?

 

[Chadx]

I'm going the route of having both soft and hard bags for my ST. I'll leave the sw-motech racks on all the time (that come with the Micatech V2) and run the Micatechs, my Wolfman dry expedition soft bags, or nothing depending on the day or week's plans.

Regarding the hard bags hurting your leg, it can happen in a flash. Dabbing your leg is never a good idea with such a big bike, but it will be very hard to avoid it because it's human nature and it's probably ingrained from riding lighter dirtbikes where it's common practice though perhaps not the best practice even there. I'll continue to raise my inside leg even with this big dual sport, but will do my best not to dab it as I've tried to train myself to not do even on my light bikes. Raising my inside leg forward and up, while going into a loose turn, does two beneficial things in my mind; helps weight the front wheel a bit more (I'd rather the back wash out than the front) and it moves my leg out away from the bike should an abrupt lowside happen thus keeping that leg from being trapped under a very heavy bike. Note that I'm not talking about skimming your foot inches above the ground around a turn. I'm talking inside leg up/forward and a couple feet+ above the ground. The important part is being able to stop the reflex to dab if the back tire gets loose. I have made an effort to not dab, but rather do my best to correct the situation with throttle control, counter steering, body english, etc. I even tend to put up my inside leg on some slow, very tight tarmac turns if the road conditions warrant it. Again, with the intent of NEVER trying to stamp up even a light bike, but with the intent of weighting the front tire and keeping my leg out of harms way if the backend washes out (these are slow, very tight gravel strewn tarmac roads and not long fast fast sweepers). I'd rather ride a lowend to the ground with my leg out of harms way rather than trapped between the bike and tarmac.

I do like having something on the side to help protect the bike a bit and found that even softbags do a good job of protecting turn signals and side plastic from damage on stand-still tip overs, which are probably the most common type.

 

[markjenn]

I was wondering if there is any positional adjustment on the on the oem cases to move them back slightly for more rider room?

Doubtful. I'm pretty sure the mounts are "hard wired."

Even the conclusion that saddlebags protect the bike is not clear cut. Sure, in a minor tipover, a bag wil likely sustain some cosmetic damage that the bike will be protected from, but if there is any energy involved, hard bags start tranferring that energy directly to subframes and mounts with no ability to absorb some of this energy before it is transferred. And luggage can act as catch points that provide extra leverage to bend hard parts. And the S10 has a aluminum rear subframe that I bet is VERY susceptible to being pretzled in many crashes.

Overall, I think the best advice is to choose luggage based on how it meets your cargo carrying needs, not as bike protection. And simply don't crash the bike - this is not a YZ250F that you can throw on the ground now and then without serious financial and medical consequences. When it comes right down to it, the S10 is a street bike with a few features to make it better for gravel and dirt roads (just like the GS). I'm going to drive my conservatively.

- Mark

 

[colorider]

Overall, I think the best advice is to choose luggage based on how it meets your cargo carrying needs, not as bike protection.

I agree with this, but I can still see that the bag selected can offer some bike protection. As for the leg issue, like many others, I have caught a leg/ankle/foot under a bag (or foot peg) and know how easy it can happen. I try to keep my feet on the pegs as much as possible.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Absolutely agree that getting a leg caught under a bag would be ugly. Offroad, bags would be a real negative from that aspect.


But I also have seen enough street falls and cars hitting bikes in the side that I do like the side protection for normal day to day life.


I was impressed by the accident in Morocco, in which the bags took a heck of a pounding and still came up square.

 

[motodude]

I'm really wondering how sturdy the Yamaha stock panniers are gonna be...would they resist breaking off at the mounts during a low-side? Obviously, depends on the severity of the crash...but just the same, enquiring minds wanna know.....

 

[markjenn]

I'm really wondering how sturdy the Yamaha stock panniers are gonna be...would they resist breaking off at the mounts during a low-side? Obviously, depends on the severity of the crash...but just the same, enquiring minds wanna know.....

Probably not. But that may be a good thing - it is relatively easy to replace saddlebags and/or mounts rather than fix broken subframes.

I've had two low-sides with hard bags on - in both cases, the bag broke off by shearing off the retainer that holds it on, but the mounts themselves were still serviceable. Both the bags and mounts were field repairable to keep me on the tour, and with some further repairs, the bags were returned to full service. YMMV.

- Mark

 

[Chadx]

Some mounts, like those used by Caribou, are designed to be the weekest part of the pannier system. They are designed to break before the cases, racks, or subframe and you can carry an extra one with and replace it in the field. One nice touch inherent to that system.

 

[Checkswrecks]

This bike high sided at high speed and landed on the upper right corners of the boxes. See the hammered appearance to the top edge of the side box. Those are impact and grinding marks that my finger is pointing to.


Observations:


The boxes stayed attached to the bike.
The food in the side box was still locked in when the bike got back to Ireland. One latch failed and one stayed locked. The top box would not re-close.
The bike slid and rotated on the side box, right off the road and into the dirt. There was some twist to the box structure, but the damage was less than I expected.


The boxes are brick shit-house stout.
I would not want my leg to be tangled under one, as my leg would fail first. On the flip side, note the survivable space for a leg created between the box and forward fairing.