S10 ES rear shock Racetech SRSP 6022 series direct replacement spring!!!!

Rodge

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#1
Hi Guys,
Following Karl's excellent tread on re-springing the ES rear shock, I have been scouring this topic all over the place in order to find a direct replacement fit.
I have not seen any mention of this Racetech spring anywhere? From the tech data it looks like it would be a direct fit, no spacer needed.
SRSP 6022 Series RT SK SPR 61.2 mm ID1 x 56.5 mm ID2 x 222 mm long
Spring rate ranging from 448 lbs/in to 588 lbs/in (8 to 10.5 kg/mm)

http://www.racetech.com/page/title/SRSP-RT%20Shock%20Spring%20List

Cheers
 

Rodge

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#2
Ok, I took the plunge and ordered a SRSP 6022085 (8.5 kg/mm, 476 lbs/in) and received it today.
Well, I'm glad to report that it is in fact a direct replacement fit, remove and replace.
My tusk spring compressor got one heck of a workout...
One short ride around the block and it feels really good, single passenger preload and soft +3 damping.
Gonna ride all weekend in the Adirondacks...
 

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Karl

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#4
That will be good news for the people to come. You have chosen a very small increase in spring rate, are you reasonably light?
 

Rodge

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#6
Karl said:
That will be good news for the people to come. You have chosen a very small increase in spring rate, are you reasonably light?
Nope, my actual weight is 230 lbs (104 kgs), probably around 250 lbs (113Kgs) ready to ride... my goal has always been to run the least amount of spring and damping in order to use the wheel travel available and have a controlled suspension, I based my spring choice on seat spring pressure...
I have yet to measure my sag after the spring install, I had to readjust the mirrors and was almost tip toeing in the high seat position (30"+ inseam). Will post my sag number later.
This weekend ride has proven me that I have made the right spring choice, at single passenger preload and soft +3 damping the ride is taut, almost supple, and feels very well balanced front and back. Attacking a small winding backroad with degraded ashphalt encountering a mid corner bump is no drama has it is felt at the same impact force front & back and the bike does not deviate from the line.
In higher speed winding road I could feel a little bit of front wallowing at throttle closing before curve entry, I attribute this at riding the progressive spring portion of the front fork in the transition from accceleration to braking. Switching on the fly to STD -2 cured that, not an issue anymore.
Plenty of ground clearance now, no more ACD skidplate scraping...
This is it, I can ride this suspension setup until the suspension needs an overhaul/refresh, which we all know that it can be done now...
Thanks again for your exploratory work on this Karl
Cheers
 

WJBertrand

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#7
OEM is a 428 Lb/in rate spring your 478 lb/in spring represents only about 11.6% increase. How did you arrive at that selection? I fitted the 550lb/in spring from Summit and spacer of Karl's design. I weigh about the same as you and my sag was about 25-30% of total travel which I've always understood is the desirable value. This is with the ES setting at one-up no luggage and the bike configured as such.

Thanks for the information about those springs just the same. It's nice that they fit without needing a spacer.
 

Rodge

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#8
WJBertrand said:
OEM is a 428 Lb/in rate spring your 478 lb/in spring represents only about 11.6% increase. How did you arrive at that selection? I fitted the 550lb/in spring from Summit and spacer of Karl's design. I weigh about the same as you and my sag was about 25-30% of total travel which I've always understood is the desirable value. This is with the ES setting at one-up no luggage and the bike configured as such.

Thanks for the information about those springs just the same. It's nice that they fit without needing a spacer.
Hi Jeff,
As a matter of fact I used your inputs in Karl's tread to help me make my decision since we're the same weight.
I made the decision to use spring preloading in order to correct my sag issue, the RT spring installed length preloads the shock seat at 466lbs at single passenger setting, stock preloads it at 462 lbs at 2 passengers + luggage setting.
Your setup preloads the shock at 346lbs single passenger setting.
If I had use Karl's setup, I would have an additional spacer made on top to install a 8" 450 or 500 lbs spring, the top spacer would have been tick enough to preload the shock seat at around 450lbs single passenger setting.
I liked the stock spring rate but it is obvious that it is designed for the mass market human factors, so I choose around 50lbs more than stock.
I did not have the chance to measure sag, but I guess it's in between 40 and 50mm, I'll do it this weekend when I have some friends around to help me out.
Here are some footnotes
Cheers
 

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WJBertrand

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#9
Thanks for the explanation. The higher initial installation preload explains it then. I definitely noticed that the stiffness increases, in my case, quickly with the adjustments through the ES system. I've not checked the sag at the other settings with the bike configured to match. Most of the time I'm running around in one-up + luggage as I have the OEM panniers on almost all the time and usually have some tools, air compressor, etc. in addition to street shoes, back pack with lap top inside and my lunch with me.

Since it looks like you have a spread sheet set up, it would be really interesting to see how the seat pressures compare at all the other ES settings between OEM, Your set up, and what Karl and I have done.
 

Ostion

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#10
I am about to pull the trigger on a spring but I see you guys are going in two different directions. I am 210 lbs (without gear) and am currently riding twisties at 2 up + luggage, on HARD +3 which feels the best but not ideal. I am very interested in swapping springs, especially being a direct swap but based on Jeff and Karl's feedback, I should be looking at a rate of 530-540 lbs, while Rodge's calls for a lighter (460 lbs approx.) rate.
I ride 85% of the time solo, without luggage. Do you have any suggestions on the spring I should be looking at, also where to get it. RT website prevents you from adding it to the cart.
Thanks in advance.
 

Rodge

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#11
@ Jeff
Exact same setup luggage wise... will do it (preload comparison) this weekend and also measure my sag.
One other thing, since the sag is decreased, the rear shock is now operating in the initial progressive rate linkage portion more than before...

@ Ostion
I contacted RT by phone, couldn't get trough to the tech department to discuss my choice, ended up talking to Sale and ordered by phone, did not try via the website.
As far as spring rate recommendation, well, read and re-read all the info from Karl's, Jeff's and I, don't forget that my setup is the one that decrease the sag the most, and this depending on your weight and pant inseam length can become an issue. Seat in high position I'm almost tip toeing at the stoplight at the single passenger setting.
 

WJBertrand

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#12
Rodge said:
@ Jeff
Exact same setup luggage wise... will do it (preload comparison) this weekend and also measure my sag.
One other thing, since the sag is decreased, the rear shock is now operating in the initial progressive rate linkage portion more than before...

@ Ostion
I contacted RT by phone, couldn't get trough to the tech department to discuss my choice, ended up talking to Sale and ordered by phone, did not try via the website.
As far as spring rate recommendation, well, read and re-read all the info from Karl's, Jeff's and I, don't forget that my setup is the one that decrease the sag the most, and this depending on your weight and pant inseam length can become an issue. Seat in high position I'm almost tip toeing at the stoplight at the single passenger setting.
Thanks Rodge. I think it's possible to reduce the sag similarly using either a lower rate spring with additional preload (your approach) or a higher rate spring with less initial preload (Karl and I). The seat pressure will rise more quickly with a higher rate spring to where you might actually end up in the same place once a load (rider) is added. That's why I'm interested in seeing the comparison of how they ramp up.

Just for academic sake, lets say both approaches lead to the same amount of sag with the same weight rider aboard when the ES is set to the one-up setting. Now as you add luggage and a passenger the stiffer spring will follow a steeper slope as you add preload by changing the ES settings, i.e. there will be more difference between the settings. Will my and Karl's set up result in too much preload and insufficient sag as the ES setting are increased? Will it become so stiff as to limit travel? Dunno, it'd be a bit of a project to figure out but would be very illustrative.

There's another number I haven't heard talked about called initial sag. This is the sag seen with just the weight of the bike and no rider aboard. Suspension gurus will tell you there should be some, but I can't remember the ideal number. I'm sure your set up Rodge would have a lot less initial sag than what Karl and I have done. I've been meaning to measure my initial sag, maybe this weekend I'll do it.

Recently, at my job, we designed a spring to keep as constant a force as possible on a mechanism that has settings at different levels of spring compression. We wanted to minimize the difference in force on the mechanism across the settings so as to avoid making adjustment of the mechanism more or less difficult depending on setting. In that case we designed a very low rate spring with a lot of preload instead of a stiff spring. That way the low spring rate kept close to the same pressure on the mechanism regardless of setting. Not really sure what the best approach is here but am enjoying the mental exercise!
 

Rodge

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#13
Great 500 kms ride yesterday, bike feels awesome (smooth and controlled) at single passenger + luggage, soft +2.
Got around to measuring my sag.
My setup
Rider weight 250 lbs ready to ride
SRSP 6022085 476 lbs/in
All measures with luggage on (empty cases) , tools + 2 gallons of fuel (Rotopax) + Full fuel
Static = 35mm
1up = 75mm
1up plus luggage = 65mm
2up = 55mm
2up plus luggage = 42mm

Here are Karl’s numbers for reference, hope you don’t mind Karl, good info here…
Rider weight ready to ride?
500 lbs/in + spacer
Bike setup? Full fuel? Luggage?
1up = 70mm
1up plus luggage = 65mm
2up = 56mm
2up plus luggage = 52mm

@ Jeff, do you have your #’s?
 

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Karl

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#14
Clarification

Rider weight ready to ride= 250lbs
550 lbs/in + spacer
Bike setup, fuel but no luggage
1up = 70mm
1up plus luggage = 65mm
2up = 56mm
2up plus luggage = 52mm


Check your last measurement of 42mm, really doubtful about that large a step.
 

Rodge

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#15
Karl said:
Clarification

Rider weight ready to ride= 250lbs
550 lbs/in + spacer
Bike setup, fuel but no luggage
1up = 70mm
1up plus luggage = 65mm
2up = 56mm
2up plus luggage = 52mm

Check your last measurement of 42mm, really doubtful about that large a step.
Thanks for that.
Yes, I was surprised as well, I could definitely feel the seat pushing me back up when I switched to 2 passengers + luggage
I ask my friend to double check the measure, and yes that is the number.

I did some math and my setup is putting more seat pressure at max preload, that explains it.

Karl setup
8 inch (203mm) spring with a 10mm spacer = 213.5mm = 8.405"
Installed length = 7.76"
8.405 - 7.76 = 0.645" x 550 lbs/in = 354.75 lbs/in initial preload 1 pax
0.645 + 0.433 (2 pax + luggage preload) = 1.078" x 550 lbs/in = 593 lbs/in preload max.

Rodge setup
SRSP = 222mm = 8.74"
Installed length = 7.76"
8.74 - 7.76 = 0.98" x 476 lbs/in = 466 lbs/in initial preload 1 pax
0.98 + 0.433 (2 pax + luggage preload) = 1.413" x 476 lbs/in = 672 lbs/in preload max.
 

WJBertrand

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#16
Rodge said:
Great 500 kms ride yesterday, bike feels awesome (smooth and controlled) at single passenger + luggage, soft +2.
Got around to measuring my sag.
My setup
Rider weight 250 lbs ready to ride
SRSP 6022085 476 lbs/in
All measures with luggage on (empty cases) , tools + 2 gallons of fuel (Rotopax) + Full fuel
Static = 35mm
1up = 75mm
1up plus luggage = 65mm
2up = 55mm
2up plus luggage = 42mm

Here are Karl’s numbers for reference, hope you don’t mind Karl, good info here…
Rider weight ready to ride?
500 lbs/in + spacer
Bike setup? Full fuel? Luggage?
1up = 70mm
1up plus luggage = 65mm
2up = 56mm
2up plus luggage = 52mm

@ Jeff, do you have your #’s?
I got 2.5" (63.5mm) sag with the ES set to one up, no luggage and no panniers mounted at all. I think my weight, geared up, is within 10 lbs of Karl's so would expect the sag numbers to follow his pretty closely. Amazing how close the numbers are given the different approaches. Karl and I are actually using a 550 lb./in. spring.
 

Rodge

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#17
WJBertrand said:
I got 2.5" (63.5mm) sag with the ES set to one up, no luggage and no panniers mounted at all. I think my weight, geared up, is within 10 lbs of Karl's so would expect the sag numbers to follow his pretty closely. Amazing how close the numbers are given the different approaches.
My numbers would have been even less if I had removed the panniers, the Rotopax's (full fuel) and the tools, not by much but... They still are very close.
I'm very happy with this spring choice...
FYI, I double checked RT online website ordering and it works.
Now I have to figure out how to reduce compression damping at both ends... That is another story...
Cheers
 

WJBertrand

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#18
Yeah, I think the damping changes (compression and rebound) happen together and with the preload changes, or is the compression damping fixed and only the rebound is ES adjustable?

One question on your lower rate, longer free length spring; is there any chance of coil binding at full compression?
 

fredz43

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#19
WJBertrand said:
Yeah, I think the damping changes (compression and rebound) happen together and with the preload changes, or is the compression damping fixed and only the rebound is ES adjustable?
Both change on the forks, Jeff. You will notice that both forks have the adjusters on the fork caps and all compression damping is done on the left fork and rebound is done with the right fork. Good question as to whether they both change on the shock, though. I'll see if I can find anything in the Yamaha tech info available to dealers.
 

Rodge

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#20
WJBertrand said:
Yeah, I think the damping changes (compression and rebound) happen together and with the preload changes, or is the compression damping fixed and only the rebound is ES adjustable?

One question on your lower rate, longer free length spring; is there any chance of coil binding at full compression?
If I'm not mistaken both compression and rebound damping are adjusted at the same time front and rear, will double check my service manual.
Like Fred said in the front one leg is rebound and the other is compression, one quick way to lessen compression is to go to a lighter viscosity oil, problem is Yamaha lube 1 is 2.5 W.
Or go to higher viscosity on the rebound side... Would prefer to open up the compression orifice...
Rear is a mystery...
The SRSP 6022 has a travel of 143mm, the shock stroke is 89mm... all good.
 
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