Rode an Africa Twin today

R

RonH

Guest
A lot of the Africa attraction is the price. For the price you get a great bike most likely, but it isn't going to have all gold plated hardware or anything fancy. Just basics that work. One can choose that option and may be best for a lot of riders. I don't want chain, don't want tube wheels, don't want anything that even resembles an automatic transmission from 10 miles away. I'm glad though it seems to be a big success. Not on my list of motorcycles I lust for. Since the Tenere was announced around Sept 2010 there hasn't been any competitor in my opinion worth thinking about except the gen2 Tenere.
 

markjenn

Active Member
Founding Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
2,427
Location
Bellingham, WA
78YZ said:
Why didn't they use these on the AT? Here is a picture of the wheels referenced.
The 1200X uses the standard 19/17 wheel/tire sizes that are used on most of the big touring adventure bikes like the GS and S10. Honda wanted to be more dirt-focused on the AT with the 21/18 combo. These are also more expensive wheels. There are a lot of things on the AT that are pretty basic to keep the price down.... another example is that lack of throttle-by-wire which makes cruise very difficult. The bike also has a steel one-piece frame (no bolt-on subframe), so if you tweak the rear of the bike hard, you're likely looking at a totaled bike. Everything is a compromise.

- Mark
 

Andylaser

Active Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Messages
527
Location
Southampton UK
markjenn said:
The bike also has a steel one-piece frame (no bolt-on subframe), so if you tweak the rear of the bike hard, you're likely looking at a totaled bike.
- Mark
That has been a long running gripe with the Tiger. There have been a few bikes totalled because the passenger pegs got bent in a fall.
 

True Grip

Well-Known Member
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
Messages
1,574
Location
Centerville,Tn
I wondered why the manual model has a cable and not hydraulic activated clutch?
 

whisperquiet

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Messages
743
Location
Southern Illinois
I posted this on advrider.com today.......my test ride of the Africa Twin.

"Not an owner.......test ride today and my impression of the AT DCT.

I test rode a DCT Africa Twin in the St Louis, MO area today....the temperature was around 80 with moderate humidity. I currently own a 2013 Super Tenere and a 2015 KLR650--neither put off any noticeable heat at any speed while riding. For reference, I also owned three different ST1300s which are noted by many for excessive heat while riding...almost to the point of being unrideable for me in high heat and humidity. I removed the inner fairing liners on mine and riding the ST1300 in comfort was good after the mod.

That said, I noticed quite a bit of engine/radiator heat on the AT test ride today even though it was not hot/humid by St Louis summer standards. I don't know if the manual clutch AT is any cooler, but the DCT model is sort of out of consideration for me due to the heat emanating from the engine. I like to poke around at low speed on my bikes at times and that is when the bike would run the hottest = riding discomfort.

Otherwise, I liked the DCT operation (my first DCT ridden), the bike was very smooth/ran good, and had decent fit and finish. It was however a little cramped for me at 6'4" and a 35" inseam. My Super Tenere has better ergos for me and it will remain my street/travel bike as I am looking to replace the KLR for light dual sporting (plus, I am bored after 9 different KLRs in the last 25 years!). Like a lot of Hondas, the cockpit is a tight fit for me.

I am still considering the bike, but the heat is a problem.....maybe the manual shift bike runs a little cooler?? Has anyone ridden them back to back and sensed less heat on one of the bikes?"
 

twinrider

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Messages
1,882
Location
Yokohama
greg the pole said:
thanks for the honest review.
I've put three dents in my tenere rims over the last two weeks.
I'd still take that over tubes, on a adv street bike.
I hate tubes so much that I run tubliss on my smoker.

For the life of me, I'm not sure why honda went with tubes. If I get a bad enough dent in the tubless rim, I can always throw a tube in to get me home. But to deal with a tube tire, regardless of situation (pinch, flat...whatever...) seems very odd to me.
I converted my AT to tubeless using the Outex kit. About 5600 km zero problems.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CRF1000L-Africa-Twin-Spoke-Wheel-Tubeless-Kit-21-2-15-18-4-00-MT-FR21214-/291698243582
 
R

RonH

Guest
I finally rode one yesterday. It was the dual clutch model. I liked it for the most part, but not shifting manually is just not right. I don't mean to offend anyone, but an automatic transmission in a car/truck is just gay, and a dual clutch is no different. No disrespect meant, and probably much nicer words for it, but automatic is on a scale of 1 to 100 a solid zero in all regards. The rest of it I liked mostly, but no reason in the world for me to want one more than the super tenere.
 

limey

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Dec 13, 2010
Messages
1,913
Location
Bowmanville Canada
RonH said:
I finally rode one yesterday. It was the dual clutch model. I liked it for the most part, but not shifting manually is just not right. I don't mean to offend anyone, but an automatic transmission in a car/truck is just gay, and a dual clutch is no different. No disrespect meant, and probably much nicer words for it, but automatic is on a scale of 1 to 100 a solid zero in all regards. The rest of it I liked mostly, but no reason in the world for me to want one more than the super tenere.
Nice one... ::007::
 

Texasten

Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2014
Messages
209
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
Ron, How did it shift? I know an atv winds up too high, then shifts into the next gear and it ends up being sort of obnoxious shift. I am curious just how it feels when it shifts. Does it smoothly shift almost imperceptably like a duramax and alison 6 speed? I figger it must be pretty smooth for everyone to be liking it so much, except you!
I lean toward agreeing with you, but I guess I will just have to try one......
 
R

RonH

Guest
It was just like an automatic in a car. Depending on whether you are on flat ground, a 5% upgrade, 5% downgrade, it will shift at times I prefer not to shift, sometimes high, sometimes low, sometimes OK. Just like in a car or truck. I really don't like sometimes shifting correctly when I can do it manually correct 100% when I want it. I'll put the dual clutch in the lazy/don't know how to shift manual class of rider. I'm sure a market is rich for that class rider. If you've ridden 30,40,50 years manual it is not for you, trust me.
 

Brick

Member
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
Joined
Oct 5, 2011
Messages
945
Location
Western North Carolina, USA
Well I've ridden for 47 years and I think it works exceptionally well. I had ridden Honda's first DCT VFR years ago and it was clunky but this AT worked seamlessly! I'm impressed. Especially in the dirt it was great. But then again I took it out of full automatic mode and could stand up and ride and shift with the paddle levers with ease when I wanted to. Very cool. If we're to do more off road I would have an AT.
I guess you are partly right in that on the road I'm not interested in the AT. But this newer version of the DCT work exceptionally well.



Let's Ride!
Brick
 

greg the pole

There are no stupid questions, only stupid people
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Messages
3,343
Location
Calgary AB
twinrider said:
Neat! I've never seen that before. I thought the only option was tubliss, which is less than 100% ideal.
Wonder if it would work on a dirt bike rim...
If it can survive that abuse, I'm sure it could cope easily with on road, and some off road riding.

I think KTM 1190 uses something very similar

thanks for the link Twin rider
 

greg the pole

There are no stupid questions, only stupid people
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Messages
3,343
Location
Calgary AB
RonH said:
I finally rode one yesterday. It was the dual clutch model. I liked it for the most part, but not shifting manually is just not right. I don't mean to offend anyone, but an automatic transmission in a car/truck is just gay, and a dual clutch is no different. No disrespect meant, and probably much nicer words for it, but automatic is on a scale of 1 to 100 a solid zero in all regards. The rest of it I liked mostly, but no reason in the world for me to want one more than the super tenere.
Dammit Ron...stop being so PC! ::015::

To each his own.

We have two VW diesels in the house. A slush box wagon (6spd-mine!), and my wife's hatch DSG. I prefer the 6 spd for driving and outright control, but the DSG is an excellent transmission for an auto box. It shifts well, has several different setting (manual, sport, and full auto) and I'm happy with how they set it up. That said, it's $1200 more than a standard, and needs a very involved drain/fill procedure every 40k km. whereas the manual needs no maintanance oil wise for close to 200k km.

Similar argument stands for a Rekluse and a conventional clutch for dirt bikes, for riding gnarly single track. The rekluse has many, many advantages. That said, it's very expensive, and has it's own quirks. A rider can do just as well as one with a rekluse shod clutch, he just needs to work a bit harder, and have good clutch control.

The Auto box will be for some. I'm not one.
 

twinrider

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Messages
1,882
Location
Yokohama
Brick said:
Well I've ridden for 47 years and I think it works exceptionally well. I had ridden Honda's first DCT VFR years ago and it was clunky but this AT worked seamlessly! I'm impressed. Especially in the dirt it was great. But then again I took it out of full automatic mode and could stand up and ride and shift with the paddle levers with ease when I wanted to. Very cool. If we're to do more off road I would have an AT.
I guess you are partly right in that on the road I'm not interested in the AT. But this newer version of the DCT work exceptionally well.



Let's Ride!
Brick
Exactly. Leave it in manual mode and it has all the pluses of a manual transmission (shifting exactly when desired) and none of the minuses (having to feather the clutch at slow speeds to keep the bike from stalling, working the shift pedal while standing). It's virtually impossible to stall as well.
 

Checkswrecks

Ungenear to broked stuff
Staff member
Global Moderator
2011 Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
11,539
Location
Damascus, MD
I spent a good while with a non-AT on Sunday and unfortunately couldn't scrounge a helmet to ride. My observations about the bike were fairly similar to those of others, in that the bike is a Honda, with all the pros and cons that it means. Great paint finish, comfy, smaller than the Tenere so it's the rough feel in size of the BMW and Triumph 800s. I was surprised that it was the exact same weight as the new VStrom, because the Honda felt much lighter and physically thinner. Both are just over 500 lbs and feel a lot less than the Tenere when stopped.

For a new model there were some pretty ugly welds and cost-cutting in details, including the little headlights and windscreen. I liked the instrument display, traction control integrated with the engine maps, and there is a button to turn off the rear wheel ABS, while keeping the front active. No doubt that it'll have Japanese reliability, a big following, and lots of aftermarket support. While the thing is going to sell really well and be heck on the VStrom market, the tube tires and chain are deal killers for me.

The guy who showed it to me is a riding enthusiast who works for the distributor, currently owns a BMW R1200GSA and could relate to the Tenere, knew I wasn't a potential customer, has been demonstrating and riding the AT and other bikes for publicity photos in his region, and I found him very candid. He related that performance-wise the AT is like a higher powered 800 BMW and it romps when off-road because of the power. When I mentioned my KTM 690, he really sparked and said the AT also likes to rev. He did note that with the weight, the AT can be a bitch in the sand till it has the right tires and you know what you are doing.

We talked about the DCT and we found we both had experience with Honda's Cross-Tourer DCT and big Suzuki scooters. His bottom line was that they are very different because the AT is generations more advanced. Comparisons would be like saying that driving an underpowered slush box economy car is the same as an auto-manual BMW sports coupe.

First and as TwinRider wrote, my guy said repeatedly said that you can leave it in manual, especially when sport riding. But for day to day commuting and general use that most people will do, his thought was that Honda really nailed the transmission performance. On the fly you can select the traction control and engine mapping modes to make it appropriate for rain, commuting in traffic, open country, etc. This will change the shift behavior too, and of course, you can still do occasional manual shifts when you want. Beyond that and for off-road, the transmission computer knows when you are going up or down hills, so it'll give you higher revs when going up and engine braking when going down.

btw - We in the US seldom appreciate the good prices we get when compared with most of the world. In his country the AT costs $15,500 for the standard transmission, before adding an expensive license plate, more expensive insurance, training for their licensing, etc.

I'm really looking forward to finally riding one!
 

Dirt_Dad

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Sep 21, 2010
Messages
5,981
Location
Northern Virginia, USA
Interesting observations, CW. I tried to get a look the other day when I was at the local Honda dealer. The owner told me they had some ATs on order, but Honda cancelled them. The dealer also made their order for next year and Honda did not even have the AT on the list for him to order.

Guess it will be a while before I get to see one.
 
R

RonH

Guest
What will be the most common failure, the most common complaint of unusual behavior, the most common part of an otherwise great motorcycle to cause problems over and over, and cost thousands to keep working throughout the life of the motorcycle I wonder? On the regular model it could be anything, but on the DCT there is no doubt the transmission will be the low point, the point that costs money to repair over and over, the part that many dealers will not be able to properly repair, the part that ruins the rest of the motorcycle. Be smart and don't buy the DCT. Take my advice, unless your ownership experience will be very short. I keep motorcycles for a long time.
 

Ironhand

Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2012
Messages
312
Location
VT, USA
RonH said:
What will be the most common failure, the most common complaint of unusual behavior, the most common part of an otherwise great motorcycle to cause problems over and over, and cost thousands to keep working throughout the life of the motorcycle I wonder? On the regular model it could be anything, but on the DCT there is no doubt the transmission will be the low point, the point that costs money to repair over and over, the part that many dealers will not be able to properly repair, the part that ruins the rest of the motorcycle. Be smart and don't buy the DCT. Take my advice, unless your ownership experience will be very short. I keep motorcycles for a long time.
That sounds like something my father would say about power windows and air conditioning. :D
 
Top