The Mountain
Active Member
Is there such a thing for this bike?
Reusable oil filter?
- Thread starter The Mountain
- Start date
The Mountain
Active Member
Even something that has a replaceable filter media of some very common size would be helpful. I'm already seeing reports that filters starting to become scarce for some vehicles, and since bikes are such a small percentage of the production of the filter companies, I'm concerned that they'll be sidelined in favor of producing car filters if raw materials become scarcer.
tntmo
Well-Known Member
You can cross reference which car filters fit on the Tenere as well, it's a very common size and all I have ever used.
The first oil filters had the porosity of steel wool. they were cleanable and reusable but really only effective in keeping weeds, seeds and cigarette butts out of the air intake. Filter media has progressed to the point where particle sizes of less than 1 micron are being trapped. Unfortunately the media is not cleanable since the any process strong enough to untrap the ultra fines would also destroy the media., Additionally, manufacturing costs for spin on filters has fallen over the decades to the point that it does not make sense to develop a reusable filter.
Most (not all) spin on applications use "off the shelf" technology to avoid tooling and prototyping costs. Result, almost all filters have multiple applications. I would not be surprised to find the ST filter in use on snow mobiles, water craft, HD industrial motors, Lawn tractors and so on.
There are enough filter manufacturers in NAFTA with excess capacity that I would not anticipate a big problem with supply. Filters consist of media, steel, some plastic, Gasket, potting compound and paint (usually powder). With the partial exception of media those materials are generally available inside NAFTA
Another little secret of the spin on filter makers is they buy or toll out small run filters from other manufacturers.
Bottom line? Any supply chain issues will be short term.
Don't worry, be happy
Most (not all) spin on applications use "off the shelf" technology to avoid tooling and prototyping costs. Result, almost all filters have multiple applications. I would not be surprised to find the ST filter in use on snow mobiles, water craft, HD industrial motors, Lawn tractors and so on.
There are enough filter manufacturers in NAFTA with excess capacity that I would not anticipate a big problem with supply. Filters consist of media, steel, some plastic, Gasket, potting compound and paint (usually powder). With the partial exception of media those materials are generally available inside NAFTA
Another little secret of the spin on filter makers is they buy or toll out small run filters from other manufacturers.
Bottom line? Any supply chain issues will be short term.
Don't worry, be happy
The Mountain
Active Member
Digging around on my own, I found these which seem to be effective enough for consideration:
kandpengineering.com
K&P says they're certified for use in aircraft. I will grant up front that aircraft typically do not operate full-time in dusty, dirty, severe-duty environments the way motorcycles do, but at the same time, I would presume that the filtration requirements are at least as stringent as those needed in automotive use cases.
www.gopurepower.com
This one doesn't claim to be FAA certified, but still looks high-quality (though it is currently out of stock).
S1 – K and P Engineering
kandpengineering.com
K&P says they're certified for use in aircraft. I will grant up front that aircraft typically do not operate full-time in dusty, dirty, severe-duty environments the way motorcycles do, but at the same time, I would presume that the filtration requirements are at least as stringent as those needed in automotive use cases.
Yamaha Motorcycle Lifetime Oil Filter #PP8109 - PurePower!
Yamaha Motorcycle Lifetime Oil Filter #PP8109 from PurePower!
This one doesn't claim to be FAA certified, but still looks high-quality (though it is currently out of stock).
Most of the filter plants I have been in are a variation on this
From the K&P site: "The medical grade stainless steel cloth that we use is consistent across the entire media surface and is rated at 35 microns". That is lame in comparison to modern synthetic filter media.Digging around on my own, I found these which seem to be effective enough for consideration:
S1 – K and P Engineering
K&P says they're certified for use in aircraft. I will grant up front that aircraft typically do not operate full-time in dusty, dirty, severe-duty environments the way motorcycles do, but at the same time, I would presume that the filtration requirements are at least as stringent as those needed in automotive use cases.
Yamaha Motorcycle Lifetime Oil Filter #PP8109 - PurePower!
Yamaha Motorcycle Lifetime Oil Filter #PP8109 from PurePower!
This one doesn't claim to be FAA certified, but still looks high-quality (though it is currently out of stock).
blitz11
Well-Known Member
Scotts (https://www.scottsonline.com/Product_Purchase2.php?Bike_ID=3059&BI_ID=6401) has the same 35 micron capability,
" Passes ASTMF316 Test for 35 Microns"
But also state " Most good paper filters will pass particles in the 90 to 95 micron range "
Misleading. I'd stick with a quality "conventional" filters.
" Passes ASTMF316 Test for 35 Microns"
But also state " Most good paper filters will pass particles in the 90 to 95 micron range "
Misleading. I'd stick with a quality "conventional" filters.
Agreed, although I don't know how "short term" it'll be. I would have guessed that the "chip" issue for autos would have been fixed long before now. But any difficulty in finding a filter, is not going to be because they've stopped making them for good. . . . just for now.
making 1 chip is a lot more challenging than making a pallet of filters. Equipment and inputs are not as snicky. Raw materials are generally available. Only challenge might be the resin for the filter media and tin plate.
That said, pessimism is a survival trait *S*
That said, pessimism is a survival trait *S*
The Mountain
Active Member
Those "5-micron" Harley filters you were talking about were shown in independent tests to pass 40-micron particles. It's not necessarily about how small of a particle the filter will grab, it's the percentage of those particles. They could be saying "5 micron" because the filter grabbed *any* 5 micron debris at all. Plus, at 5 microns, paper filter media is going to be pretty restrictive; how much of the pump output is going through the bypass valve most of the time? Plus, the two reusables I posted both use neodymium magnets to catch metal, upstream and separately from the filter element.
My reasoning for looking at reusables is that I am expecting to spend a considerable amount of time in India, and in areas where bike parts are difficult to obtain. A reusable might not be quite as effective (though some of these sound pretty darn close), but any filter is going to be more effective than no filter at all, or a completely plugged one. At least with the reusable, I can pull it apart and slosh it in kerosene to keep it clean-ish until I can get to a parts shop. To make matters even more difficult, the Super10 was only sold in India for like a year, maybe less. It was back when it first came out and was even more pricey, so it's entirely possible that no bikes were ever actually sold off the showroom floor there. Yes, the filter is used on other big bikes, and there are a number of big bikes sold there, so I might get lucky and find something else that uses the filter.
jrusell
Well-Known Member
Those aluminum body cleanable filters are garbage and a waste of money.
As mentioned any base model conventional oil filter will filter too a much higher level. More expensive paper filters are generally 95-98% effective on particles in the 5 micon size range compared to a stainless which list 30 micron as their screen size.
You can find the beta ratios/test results for many conventional filters. I have yet to see a Beta test results for a stainless filter, and there is a reason for this. I will bet the test result would scare the shit out of you.
The thought that with an Oil pump running at 40-60psi, spraying a bit of brake cleaner on the inside of a stainless filter is going to clean it is stupid in my opinion.
And last but not least is none of the stainless filters I have seen have an anti-drain back valve. So every time you shut the bike off, all the oil galleries drain back into the sump. Every start is a dry start, and if that doesn't bother you I don't know what will.
So yeah they filter more poorly, and you get the benefit of a dry start every time.
But hey they have a pretty aluminum case.
As mentioned any base model conventional oil filter will filter too a much higher level. More expensive paper filters are generally 95-98% effective on particles in the 5 micon size range compared to a stainless which list 30 micron as their screen size.
You can find the beta ratios/test results for many conventional filters. I have yet to see a Beta test results for a stainless filter, and there is a reason for this. I will bet the test result would scare the shit out of you.
The thought that with an Oil pump running at 40-60psi, spraying a bit of brake cleaner on the inside of a stainless filter is going to clean it is stupid in my opinion.
And last but not least is none of the stainless filters I have seen have an anti-drain back valve. So every time you shut the bike off, all the oil galleries drain back into the sump. Every start is a dry start, and if that doesn't bother you I don't know what will.
So yeah they filter more poorly, and you get the benefit of a dry start every time.
But hey they have a pretty aluminum case.
I had understood that the rear valve of the "engine" filters was a valve that prevents the engine from turning without oil due to a clogged filter. Yes…dirty oil would circulate, but at least it would circulate. The "hydraulic" filters, also made of filter paper, although of greater micronage, do not have a rear valve. When the filter is completely clogged…you simply have no oil in the hydraulic pump…and therefore, no hydraulic pressure, this is in a conventional system and this system causes “cavitation” in the pump and its rapid deterioration. I think I have seen that some filters (especially those that are placed downwards), that have a rubber ring in the surrounding holes, I think that rubber is the one that prevents the filter from emptying, but I think that the rear valve of the filters It is an overpressure valve (if the filter gets clogged, the valve opens and allows the oil to circulate.
Here's a good article with the facts: https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/30697/choose-oil-filter
As shown in this graphic. It's important to have media fibers that are small compared to what you are trying to filter out.
As shown in this graphic. It's important to have media fibers that are small compared to what you are trying to filter out.
Clawdog60
Well-Known Member
They are well made and work well but not worth the trouble to clean for me. Used one on my road king for about 30k miles.Digging around on my own, I found these which seem to be effective enough for consideration:
S1 – K and P Engineering
K&P says they're certified for use in aircraft. I will grant up front that aircraft typically do not operate full-time in dusty, dirty, severe-duty environments the way motorcycles do, but at the same time, I would presume that the filtration requirements are at least as stringent as those needed in automotive use cases.
Yamaha Motorcycle Lifetime Oil Filter #PP8109 - PurePower!
Yamaha Motorcycle Lifetime Oil Filter #PP8109 from PurePower!
This one doesn't claim to be FAA certified, but still looks high-quality (though it is currently out of stock).
Clawdog60
Well-Known Member
So which is the best filter on the market to use?
OEM, mobil 1 synthetic filter, wix, fram