Reality or myth?

[viewdvb]

Have you ever replaced a crank seal on a BMW? Anyone here? If you ever handled one of their seals you would totally understand why they fail. I have never had to "resize" an oil seal as standard procedure on any car or powersports machine besides BMW.

Come on now - you've piqued my curiosity. Resize???? Do tell.

 

[autoteach]

Come on now - you've piqued my curiosity. Resize???? Do tell.

http://www.wunderlichamerica.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/1111739.jpg

the inner part of the seal that most people are familiar with as being parallel to the crankshaft and needing to just be massaged into place is not the same on the bmw. on the bmw it is not rubber. it feels allot like card stock, and it is perpendicular to the axis of the shaft and requires you to soak it in oil, and then to work your way around it, bending it until it fits the crankshaft. I cannot make this up, and I have done 3-4 of these on old R's to newer ones.

 

[EricV]

This reminds me of a Consumer Report article a few months ago where they wrote about the motorcycle reliability and customer satisfaction. They remarked about how they thought it was strange that although BMW and Harley were two of the most unreliable brands of motorcycles, their owners had the highest satisfaction. ::025::

I'm not sure what to think of that.

They market image very well. They back that up with a very feature rich bike that looks good and is fun to ride. They fall down on actual engineering and quality of design, which leads to the failures and problems, which they then proceed to largely ignore, lie to customers about and silently attempt to correct when they do actually do something.

Like all motorcyclists in the US, the vast majority don't really ride that much, which masks the 'satisfaction' level. Everybody loves their bike when it's new. When you see owners that average less than 1k a year or own the bike for ten years and never get past the warranty mileage number, it's easier to find the "I never had a problem" guy, despite the fact that they paid the dealer to do service per/schedule that added up to thousands of dollars more than other brands.

 

[Salmon Sam]

Don't know if it is true, but heard a comment from a mechanic awhile ago: "The Germans look at a part and see how "clever" they can make it (read: lots of pieces) whereas the Japanese look at a part and see how simple that can make it (read: fewer pieces). Obvious what that translates into with respect to risks of things going wrong. Don't know what the American take would be?

 

[True Grip]

Don't know if it is true, but heard a comment from a mechanic awhile ago: "The Germans look at a part and see how "clever" they can make it (read: lots of pieces) whereas the Japanese look at a part and see how simple that can make it (read: fewer pieces). Obvious what that translates into with respect to risks of things going wrong. Don't know what the American take would be?

We just want to buy it cheap! ;D

 

[Checkswrecks]

http://www.wunderlichamerica.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/1111739.jpg

the inner part of the seal that most people are familiar with as being parallel to the crankshaft and needing to just be massaged into place is not the same on the bmw. on the bmw it is not rubber. it feels allot like card stock, and it is perpendicular to the axis of the shaft and requires you to soak it in oil, and then to work your way around it, bending it until it fits the crankshaft. I cannot make this up, and I have done 3-4 of these on old R's to newer ones.

I didn't realize those still exist. Some small engines used to use them such as for the tubes that the valve push rods move in. But those that stayed in production were redesigned decades ago.

 

[xylo66]

Myth !!

Go to South Africa and see which vehicles last . Only japs, esp. Toyota ! Every farmer has them, in towns and they are indestructible ! Same goes for bikes. There are loads of early 80's XT500's by the dozen and clubs for them too in SA ! ...very few BM's in comparison and they can't handle the bush for any length of period. Ironically, BMW use SA to launch their products. Sad.

 

[autoteach]

I didn't realize those still exist. Some small engines used to use them such as for the tubes that the valve push rods move in. But those that stayed in production were redesigned decades ago.

There is a reason that they were abandoned years ago by everyone else. They always have a service life below that of a rubber seal, and they always wear a nasty groove in the crank.

 

[CDMartin884]

I will speak from my own experience, I bought my first bike (R100RS) when 22 years old. I worked on it, I ran the snot out of it, and epitomized the young punk on a bike. As much as I abused that bike, it never gave me a problem, and it wasn't a tinker toy. It was a tank. In 1999 I bought a R1100R. Within the first year I put over 60K on it, and never did anything other than the directed services. I sold it an bought a more comfortable R1100GS for long distance. It was a used 1999 with 90K on the clock, I sold it in 2005 just before Katrina. When I sold it, I had racked the odometer up to 220K, again nothing more than services every 6K and tires. After Katrina I bought a used R1150GS with 75K on the clock. That was my bike thru 2012, when I bought my S10. I finally sold it with just shy of 200K on it.

That history being told, I never had a final drive issue, tranny issue, or any of the other systemic BMW problems that are always reported on the forums. I think the fan boy base for BMW is well deserved, but most never put any real miles on their bikes. The new model comes out and they have to have it. That being said, the down side to BMW ownership is the cost associated with service.

I guess I am a fan boy, but I ride an S10, and haven't looked back yet. As a side note, my old BMW mechanic Tom High, just got his 1 million mile medallion from BMW. All on his R100RS that he bought new in the early 80's.


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[EricV]

I will speak from my own experience, I bought my first bike (R100RS) when 22 years old. I worked on it, I ran the snot out of it, and epitomized the young punk on a bike. As much as I abused that bike, it never gave me a problem, and it wasn't a tinker toy. It was a tank. In 1999 I bought a R1100R. Within the first year I put over 60K on it, and never did anything other than the directed services. I sold it an bought a more comfortable R1100GS for long distance. It was a used 1999 with 90K on the clock, I sold it in 2005 just before Katrina. When I sold it, I had racked the odometer up to 220K, again nothing more than services every 6K and tires. After Katrina I bought a used R1150GS with 75K on the clock. That was my bike thru 2012, when I bought my S10. I finally sold it with just shy of 200K on it.

That history being told, I never had a final drive issue, tranny issue, or any of the other systemic BMW problems that are always reported on the forums. I think the fan boy base for BMW is well deserved, but most never put any real miles on their bikes. The new model comes out and they have to have it. That being said, the down side to BMW ownership is the cost associated with service.

I guess I am a fan boy, but I ride an S10, and haven't looked back yet. As a side note, my old BMW mechanic Tom High, just got his 1 million mile medallion from BMW. All on his R100RS that he bought new in the early 80's.

The R100RS was a tank. You're not a real BMW fan boi. The real fan bois have the stones to buy a used BMW just barely out of warranty. Then pay to have everything fixed and corrected. Then they ride it for a while and sell it to a lucky guy that doesn't have to pay for all the post warranty failures and the bike already has been thru the under warranty failures. That directed service is a killer though. $$$$ Glad you had so many positive miles with the brand. ::008::

My wife bought a new BMW ('11 F650GS twin), and it's now cost more in repairs than the bike cost new. At 70k now, it's probably good for a while, at least until the stator burns up again around 100k.

 

[snakebitten]

CD, fellow TEXAN,

If you could somehow make me believe that I would have the same experience as you, I would go buy a GSA today!

But I gotta tell you, my fears don't come from some friend or relative that had a bad experience. My fears come FIRST from having a BMW tech at a multibrand dealer giving me the full tour of their service department. Along with his honest appraisal of what goes on in his department.

And second, visiting the forums and seeing with my own eyes what my peers who actually own them are saying.

I'm too chicken to do it. I would do anything to make the yearn go away. I can't explain what the freaking appeal is considering all the data says.

The GSA just represents the poster bike of my vision of THE Adventure bike is supposed to be.

Yamaha saved me. It is the only other GSA.

 

[3xranger]

CD,

Glas your experience was a good one with BMWs. I probably bought mine with too few miles and was in the process of replacing all the "bad" parts. I got mine with 5000 miles and thought I got a steal. By the time I had it at 13000 (within a year), I knew what a big mistake I had made. The instrument cluster starting to act up prompted me to get out of BMW ownership asap. I had already spent over $3000 on it. I feel as if my BMW lesson came relatively cheap all things considered.

Like stated above, maybe the way to get into a Beemer is to buy one with enough miles for it to have been de-bugged.

 

[GrahamD]

Like stated above, maybe the way to get into a Beemer is to buy one with enough miles for it to have been de-bugged.

Might be something to that. The actual reports indicate 70% of owners have no major issues in 3 years (2012 survey).

It may be a case of waiting for that 70% to prove themselves. My only complaint is that for new bikes, I am asked to pay a premium for this, just because the bike feels like a BMW and has some stuff. Yes I'll pay some more for stuff, but I'll deduct, cost of running and risk.

On the other hand, despite the "BMW resale value myth", you can get some really good deals second hand. Plenty of fashionistas selling garage queens (GS, GSA's) out there with low K's and low prices, just like Ducati and Harley. (Where I live)

I could just cut my chances of problems to 1 fifth and buy a bike that feels like a YAMAHA for way less. There seems to be this assumption that that something that feels like a YAMAHA is a bad thing or something. Luckily YAMAHA produced a very close thing to what I actually wanted. (900cc and/or bigger tank would be nice)

So, that's just the way I look at it. If I buy a bike with Chinese reliability, I want something closer to a Chinese price. I still haven't seen any real figures indicating that the Chinese are that bad (or good), just anecdotal and all lumped in together, like they are the same company. (Where have I seen that before).

I don't know for sure how CFMoto would compare to Loncin would compare to X, except Loncin seems to live up to BMW standards. I don't know whether that is an insult to Loncin or not either.

I wouldn't mind so much if the prices were more reflective of the risk, as they are with "newer" brands. And that 30% problem rate is fleet. Not all BMW models are affected equally. The BMW UJM1000R is supposed to be relatively OK, so what models are dragging the chain?

 

[GrahamD]

Not speaking of any one in particular, but over the years I always read of the 400,000 mile, 500,000 mile BMWs, and see guys that claim these miles and where they live and figure the odds that it is true. Can someone really ride 150 miles a day every day average for the days it takes to hit 400k that works full time and has 6 months of snow and cold? I find the odds very slim.
I do like them though, just one of those bikes you're better off watching other guys ride and wish you had one, than actually having one in reality.

Ask a courier rider what they get out of bike motors. If you ride big miles constantly, you get big miles on many things.

My bro in Law (and friends) regularly got 300-500,000km out of 500cc Kawasaki's in mostly city stop start riding (no rebuilds between). Basically the bike started in the morning, commuted 80Km on mostly freeway to base, did 4-500km and then went home 80km. Repeat that 6 times a week and it adds up. He bought a BMW once becauae of the constant chain maintenance was giving him the poos. It was fine until the gearbox ate itself after 350,000Km. It cost more than a used KAWASAKI to fix it so it became land fill, but the motor was fine. (His fault he reckons, he skipped a gearbox oil change)

Why KAWASAKI? He bought them cheap of a KAWASAKI dealer friend as they were being traded with 40,000Km on the clock before they "wore out". Made shifting them pretty easy for the dealer and cheap for the couriers. KAWASAKI need to collect these bikes and write stories about them.

I used to drive a Taxi occasionally that was sold with 14,000Km on the ODO after 6 years. Of course that was 1,000,000 + 14,000Km but the engine was still doing fine. Just a GM V6. A country taxi doing 500k a day 7 days a week.

So given the demographics of the older BMW riders that bought them for mile munching as they were considered tourers, and very good at that as well, and the fact they used to be reliable (comparatively, as most brands got better with time) then I have no problem with the occasional high mile BMW, especially considering the boxer orientation was great for air cooled motors and the shaft that used to keep going.

AND the carbs, valves, heads, pots etc were "out there" and easy to get out was a plus as well. One less deterrent to do a service.

 

[3xranger]

250 mile ride today on my new S10. So far, I've added OEM boxes, tall wind screen and my GPS from the other bike - - garmin 350. Am almost at 1000 miles and loving it!

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[snakebitten]

That color combo is so.....stealth.
If I ever bought another, and could choose, I think this would be it.

 

[ADVFireFighter]

Myth...
I have a 2000 CBR 1100XX and NO issues getting any parts...

 

[CDMartin884]

If I were to buy another Beemer, it would be a used 1100 or 1150GS. I am not fond of the cam head, and the seat and leg position is too cramped on the new wet head. Besides there are always good deals on IBMW for lightly used GS' for under $6K.

Don't see it happening anytime soon, cause I love my S10.


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[tkad]

maybe it's just me but...if there was a constant demand for parts that I made, I would keep making them...and charge an assload for them. just sayin

 

[joneil]

They market image very well. They back that up with a very feature rich bike that looks good and is fun to ride. They fall down on actual engineering and quality of design, which leads to the failures and problems, which they then proceed to largely ignore, lie to customers about and silently attempt to correct when they do actually do something.

Like all motorcyclists in the US, the vast majority don't really ride that much, which masks the 'satisfaction' level. Everybody loves their bike when it's new. When you see owners that average less than 1k a year or own the bike for ten years and never get past the warranty mileage number, it's easier to find the "I never had a problem" guy, despite the fact that they paid the dealer to do service per/schedule that added up to thousands of dollars more than other brands.

I don't think it's that complex. Bikes are our passion. When you love something you forgive it's transgressions. I "love" my Harley. I rode it to work today. I've had some issues with it, but I love it. Believe me when I tell you, I'm not your stereotypical HD owner. But I have a real connection with that thing. Riding it makes me smile. It's not marketing, brand image, cosmetics, our exhaust note. It's about the ride.