Ahhh,haa.... I stand corrected. Reading comprehension never was one of my strong points. Luckily, I am purdy.snakebitten said:I think you misunderstood.
I didn't say if you bought Japanese you didn't know where the oil goes.
Instead, I said if you didn't know where the oil goes, you likely bought Japanese.
See the difference?
As for Suzuki in particular, it has always been my favorite emotionally. Of the many many bikes since late 60's that I've owned, half have been Suzukis. And I never got a bum one.
From the TS50, to the GSXR's, and all the TM's, RM's, SV's and GS's between, great bikes.
Reality or myth?
- Thread starter 3xranger
- Start date
mcrider007
Member
Purdy? You must be a different zzzzip than the one I met in Castlegarzzzzip said:
), maybe our paths will cross again in Silver City this year. ::003::kmac
Kelly kmac
I agree with snake here....when you are "young, dumb, and full o cum" you buy what you can afford and you ride the piss out of it with little regard for maintenance or care. You ride the tires till the threads show, the oil till it comes out in lumps, the filter you can't see the foam......not everyone of course but many youngsters are like this. Whereas the typical BMW demographic is 35-60, financially stable, usually works enough hours and makes enough money to just drop a bike off and write a check for service....
As far as Suzuki is concerned, they are generally good bikes. I have had some good ones and some less than exceptional ones. My GSXR750R was spectacular and I still can not understand for the life of me why all of the other brands stopped making 750cc sport bikes. I have ridden most of the 600cc sports and a lot of the 1000cc sports over the last few years and I still think the GIXX 750 is perfect.
I had a new '76 RM125 that cooked a crank with only a few hours on it, but the replaced it for free with an updated crank I had no other issues with that bike and still remember it with much love. Some of the RMZ450's have had tranny problems and a few electrical gremlins. Overall I have had the worst reliability record with my BMWs and my Kawasaki's and then Honda's but my Suzuki's have been good and my Yamaha's have seriously been FLAWLESS....that is not just a "koolaide" comment. I have had over 20 Yami's....maybe over 30, starting with a new 1971 Yami mini endure 60 {aka JT60} my dad bought me in mid 1970 from T&O Yamaha in Lomita Ca. I remember the day like it was yesterday. Since then I have had NUMEROUS DT's, AT's, GT's, IT's, MX's, YZ's and now an XTZ....I have LITERALLY had NO issues with a single Yami except a 1971 AT1 125 that was WAY over built and ported the snot out of. It was crazy fast but very peaky HP and seizure prone, can not really blame Yamaha for that one since it was a very built flat track bike.
My dad did have a '71 AT1 125 endure that he broke the swing arm on....he was 6'3" and 300 lbs. and jumping the little scooter about 15-20' in the air....hard on 125 swing arms back then. My mid 90s-08 YZs were perfect...I raced them exclusively and never had a single failure.
Yamaha is a spectacular company that truly prides itself on durability even if at times that keeps them off the top of the performance chart a tick. People often forget how cutting edge they have been and never sacrificed reliability...anyone else own a '98 YZ400? Big, a bit heavy, but first year model, first style of MX 4 stroke, revolutionary in every way and STILL bulletproof reliable and if you followed the routine correctly fired every time on the 1st or maybe 2nd kick hot or cold....that is a quality company!!!!
As far as Suzuki is concerned, they are generally good bikes. I have had some good ones and some less than exceptional ones. My GSXR750R was spectacular and I still can not understand for the life of me why all of the other brands stopped making 750cc sport bikes. I have ridden most of the 600cc sports and a lot of the 1000cc sports over the last few years and I still think the GIXX 750 is perfect.
I had a new '76 RM125 that cooked a crank with only a few hours on it, but the replaced it for free with an updated crank I had no other issues with that bike and still remember it with much love. Some of the RMZ450's have had tranny problems and a few electrical gremlins. Overall I have had the worst reliability record with my BMWs and my Kawasaki's and then Honda's but my Suzuki's have been good and my Yamaha's have seriously been FLAWLESS....that is not just a "koolaide" comment. I have had over 20 Yami's....maybe over 30, starting with a new 1971 Yami mini endure 60 {aka JT60} my dad bought me in mid 1970 from T&O Yamaha in Lomita Ca. I remember the day like it was yesterday. Since then I have had NUMEROUS DT's, AT's, GT's, IT's, MX's, YZ's and now an XTZ....I have LITERALLY had NO issues with a single Yami except a 1971 AT1 125 that was WAY over built and ported the snot out of. It was crazy fast but very peaky HP and seizure prone, can not really blame Yamaha for that one since it was a very built flat track bike.
My dad did have a '71 AT1 125 endure that he broke the swing arm on....he was 6'3" and 300 lbs. and jumping the little scooter about 15-20' in the air....hard on 125 swing arms back then. My mid 90s-08 YZs were perfect...I raced them exclusively and never had a single failure.
Yamaha is a spectacular company that truly prides itself on durability even if at times that keeps them off the top of the performance chart a tick. People often forget how cutting edge they have been and never sacrificed reliability...anyone else own a '98 YZ400? Big, a bit heavy, but first year model, first style of MX 4 stroke, revolutionary in every way and STILL bulletproof reliable and if you followed the routine correctly fired every time on the 1st or maybe 2nd kick hot or cold....that is a quality company!!!!
::025::kmac said:
I don't know why I was a late arrival to the Yamaha club. Especially since my all time favorite MXer was a 88(?) YZ250. I was already getting old, fat, and outta shape for long motos. But the bike was something special. It saved my bacon a few times when I was exhausted and making mistakes. I chalked it up to a "good year" for Yamaha, instead of appreciating it for being evidence of the company being dedicated to quality engineering.
But I got older, better read, and a better judge of things that extend beyond the hype and marketing. And then the PDP offer came up for this amazing machine. I knew I wanted this Beast sight unseen and no test drive. And the last 30 months have really driven home my new understanding and huge respect for what Yamahas engineers hold important. It's right there in front of me. And not just this bike. Now that I spend a few hours at the dealer for service, I analyze the other models at the shop. Even the watercraft. So many well thought out products.
I've probably turned into as much a Yamaha proponent as any fan is of any other brand.
Lots of guys around here seem to have found all this out long before now. I'm late to the party, but I got here.
But I got older, better read, and a better judge of things that extend beyond the hype and marketing. And then the PDP offer came up for this amazing machine. I knew I wanted this Beast sight unseen and no test drive. And the last 30 months have really driven home my new understanding and huge respect for what Yamahas engineers hold important. It's right there in front of me. And not just this bike. Now that I spend a few hours at the dealer for service, I analyze the other models at the shop. Even the watercraft. So many well thought out products.
I've probably turned into as much a Yamaha proponent as any fan is of any other brand.
Lots of guys around here seem to have found all this out long before now. I'm late to the party, but I got here.
Well since we're onto Old mans tales part of the thread and all the youngin's have gone to bed, It's time to pack the pipe, I got for my 50th birthday and ...;D
I have always looked on at YAMAHA from a distance, being that quirky company that did some interesting things and managed to get beaten up about it OR the marketing department didn't know what to do, one or the other.
From the "how many ways can we slice up a head" XS500, to the "can we make two pistons go up and down together without the bike blowing up" XS650, to the YZ80 that I laughed at until I rode it.. ???, to the triples I sort of wanted "when I grew up" to the GTS1000, the morpho's to the work they did on others stuff, to help them with performance they always seemed to me like the nerdy quirky MC maker that did others homework and just worked away in the shed and popped out some interesting takes on the world every now and again contend to let Honda and Kawasaki play the Macho popularity game.
Which is why I never saw all the Big Four as one big block I suppose. YAMAHA mostly just made things that were pretty well sorted and didn't necessarily do things because that was what was hip at the time.
Hopefully before I'm too fragile they'll come out with a smaller Tenere-ish bike so I can continue with them. Time will tell.
I have always looked on at YAMAHA from a distance, being that quirky company that did some interesting things and managed to get beaten up about it OR the marketing department didn't know what to do, one or the other.
From the "how many ways can we slice up a head" XS500, to the "can we make two pistons go up and down together without the bike blowing up" XS650, to the YZ80 that I laughed at until I rode it.. ???, to the triples I sort of wanted "when I grew up" to the GTS1000, the morpho's to the work they did on others stuff, to help them with performance they always seemed to me like the nerdy quirky MC maker that did others homework and just worked away in the shed and popped out some interesting takes on the world every now and again contend to let Honda and Kawasaki play the Macho popularity game.
Which is why I never saw all the Big Four as one big block I suppose. YAMAHA mostly just made things that were pretty well sorted and didn't necessarily do things because that was what was hip at the time.
Hopefully before I'm too fragile they'll come out with a smaller Tenere-ish bike so I can continue with them. Time will tell.
You're just now 50 G?
Heck, you got a few more years to go before this Big Pig is more than you can mount.
Heck, you got a few more years to go before this Big Pig is more than you can mount.
Same guy; different lie. I'll be at Silver City on the Un-Cola.mcrider007 said:Purdy? You must be a different zzzzip than the one I met in Castlegar
I think the MOA will tell you the average age of a BMW rider is around 50 and rising....kmac said:
Dirt_Dad
Well-Known Member
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Yep, nailed me. I was too young to be "full o" that last part, but otherwise the oil coming out in lumps (more like metal chunks) was me. Actually I learned a lot of motorcycle repair skills on my Kawasaki KE100, but did you know you should be changing the oil in crankcase on that bike? Me neither. That was the only bike I was getting, and I wanted to keep up with my friends on their MX bikes. I rode that thing far beyond it's intended design. I literally beat that bike to death when I managed to get the gears to go flying around free will style inside the crankcase. It set me up to have huge respect for Kawasaki, and the abuse the can endure.kmac said:
Yamaha has always been an emotional favorite. Most likely because 40+ years ago my very first motorcycle ride was sitting in front of my uncle, holding the crossbar as he took me for a ride on his DT250. I was hooked and Yamaha was the coolest thing ever. Funny how some things never change.
Suzuki was always my least favorite. In 1983 I test rode a brand new Suzuki DR250. I remember it having such constant clatter that sounded to me like piston clatter. I walked away with a very negative impression of Suzuki that stuck with me. It's ironic that in 2007 I started buying a series of V-Stroms that would literally change my life. The DL650 gave me a hint that road riding (instead of dirt) could actually be fun. The DL1000 took me from a 1000 mile per year road rider, to a happy 1000 mile per month pavement rider. Suzuki earned total respect from me.
I've only owned a couple of Hondas over the years. Never a problem, but no attachment to them, either.
Based on my experience, I will continue to buy Japanese designed and built motorcycles. Based on the experiences shared by so many others, I will continue to avoid BMW motorcycles for the foreseeable future. Too bad, their lineup looks so good. But I can avoid the Sirens' call.
18 months of BMW ownership gave me about the same amount of problems as the previous 18 years on Jap bikes :exclaim:
BMW Owners tend to be very enthusiastic and live up to their reputation of being "blinkered", comments such as "totally reliable" are normally followed by but it did need..... followed by a host of non service items replaced, often during a service or as part of a recall, but quite often after a breakdown - Jap owners tend to be far more honest and harder on the bikes, we will moan about little problems, BMW owners brush off Final drives that blow up after 10k as being "one of those things" or claiming it is "no different to replacing a chain on a Jap bike"
Of course you see high mileage BMW's, but they are like Triggers Broom....
Triggers New Broom, The Ship of Theseus
BMW are certainly better at marketing than anything else these days, you only have to look at the huge number of common faults plaguing the latest GS, it has gearbox problems, clutch problems, electrical problems, oil leak issues, stability issues, traction control problems and already had several recalls, of course the BMW owners will tell us they sell more, but I reckon 4 years of S10 sales are probably similar to 6 months sales of the new GS, and how many miles have been covered by S10's in four years Vs the new GS's in six months - and they actually had a couple of recalls before the first customer even took delivery :exclaim:
And if you look at the S1000RR it has a habbit of blowing big ends out (although some Yamaha's did this once upon a time - but only when tuned & raced) the California Superbike School in the UK has run R1's for over 10 years and never blown up an R1, in the states they switched from Kawasaki to BMW when the S1000RR came out and managed to blow up a couple within weeks, I think they now run them in rain mode all the time to stop them blowing up ::007::
The other thing I have noticed is all BMW owners rave about the breakdown service - if the bikes are so reliable how the hell would they know if it is good or bad, none of my Jap bike riding mates can tell me how the Honda / Yamaha / Suzuki / Kawasaki breakdown service is as they have never used it, in fact I cannot think of a single person who has broken down on a Jap bike in recent years (we all blew up our mopeds in the 80's but since then nothing) I moderate on a forum for a Kawasaki model and in over 5 years I have never heard of a single one stopping roadside (except for punctures) and even minor issues are very rare.
Just pop onto the UKGSER website and look at the latest GS, lots of problems and a couple being returned to dealers for refunds, and many that have been in many times and still have unresolved faults, I would buy a Ducati, Guzzi or KTM with far more confidence than a BMW.
BMW Owners tend to be very enthusiastic and live up to their reputation of being "blinkered", comments such as "totally reliable" are normally followed by but it did need..... followed by a host of non service items replaced, often during a service or as part of a recall, but quite often after a breakdown - Jap owners tend to be far more honest and harder on the bikes, we will moan about little problems, BMW owners brush off Final drives that blow up after 10k as being "one of those things" or claiming it is "no different to replacing a chain on a Jap bike"
Of course you see high mileage BMW's, but they are like Triggers Broom....
Triggers New Broom, The Ship of Theseus
BMW are certainly better at marketing than anything else these days, you only have to look at the huge number of common faults plaguing the latest GS, it has gearbox problems, clutch problems, electrical problems, oil leak issues, stability issues, traction control problems and already had several recalls, of course the BMW owners will tell us they sell more, but I reckon 4 years of S10 sales are probably similar to 6 months sales of the new GS, and how many miles have been covered by S10's in four years Vs the new GS's in six months - and they actually had a couple of recalls before the first customer even took delivery :exclaim:
And if you look at the S1000RR it has a habbit of blowing big ends out (although some Yamaha's did this once upon a time - but only when tuned & raced) the California Superbike School in the UK has run R1's for over 10 years and never blown up an R1, in the states they switched from Kawasaki to BMW when the S1000RR came out and managed to blow up a couple within weeks, I think they now run them in rain mode all the time to stop them blowing up ::007::
The other thing I have noticed is all BMW owners rave about the breakdown service - if the bikes are so reliable how the hell would they know if it is good or bad, none of my Jap bike riding mates can tell me how the Honda / Yamaha / Suzuki / Kawasaki breakdown service is as they have never used it, in fact I cannot think of a single person who has broken down on a Jap bike in recent years (we all blew up our mopeds in the 80's but since then nothing) I moderate on a forum for a Kawasaki model and in over 5 years I have never heard of a single one stopping roadside (except for punctures) and even minor issues are very rare.
Just pop onto the UKGSER website and look at the latest GS, lots of problems and a couple being returned to dealers for refunds, and many that have been in many times and still have unresolved faults, I would buy a Ducati, Guzzi or KTM with far more confidence than a BMW.
I usually let this sort of stuff go, but have to comment on this. I've NEVER seen any group as "blinkered" as the group on this forum. Which is Okay, enthusiasm for a brand is generally a good thing. But honestly, this is one of those "pot calling the kettle black" things.Rasher said:
CSS runs the bikes in rain mode for the first session or two, then they allow full power for the rest of the day. I've talked to Code and he says they're experiencing a few more electronic issues with the BMWs, but mechanically they're just as reliable as the Kawis they used to run. He's a huge proponent of the electronic package on the bike and says they're accident rates have dropped to 15% of what they used to be. He loves the bike.
- Mark
EricV
Riding, farkling, riding...
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
markjenn - Put the Koolaid down and step away from the keyboard.
You're not honestly trying to compare a track day experience to actual reliability are you? You do know about the recall on the BMW 1000RR for crank bolts, right?
We're 'blinkered' here, with a couple of seals gone bad and the headlight harness being about the worst you can find to go wrong with the Super Tenere?
A great many owners here came from other Yamahas, not because we're massively brand loyal, but because of the great experiences we had with the previous bikes. Yamaha at least responds to problems and comes up with a fix. BMW can't build bikes, so any attempts to fix a problem is the blind leading the blind. Their engineers that could build bikes have all moved into retirement and no one is left that even understands how the parts are supposed to work together. I doubt any of their engineers even ride motorcycles.
You're not honestly trying to compare a track day experience to actual reliability are you? You do know about the recall on the BMW 1000RR for crank bolts, right?
We're 'blinkered' here, with a couple of seals gone bad and the headlight harness being about the worst you can find to go wrong with the Super Tenere?
A great many owners here came from other Yamahas, not because we're massively brand loyal, but because of the great experiences we had with the previous bikes. Yamaha at least responds to problems and comes up with a fix. BMW can't build bikes, so any attempts to fix a problem is the blind leading the blind. Their engineers that could build bikes have all moved into retirement and no one is left that even understands how the parts are supposed to work together. I doubt any of their engineers even ride motorcycles.
I will agree that in all my years I have not seen a group of owners more satisfied than the group on this forum.
It is so obvious why.
That might bother some. And that's understandable. Earned uniformity looks very similar to koolaid uniformity.
But they aren't the same. Nowhere even close.
It is so obvious why.
That might bother some. And that's understandable. Earned uniformity looks very similar to koolaid uniformity.
But they aren't the same. Nowhere even close.
Dirt_Dad
Well-Known Member
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Guess I'm lucky. I also experienced very similar universal owner satisfaction in the V-Strom world. There were definitely a few things to complain about, but overall there was a high degree of problem free satisfactions with both the big and little Strom.snakebitten said:
+1. Their was always someone around to remind you how shitty they were compared to their new [whatever] but I think most just took them for what they were and were quite happy. Certainly helpful, friendly in the main, not very cranky mostly.Dirt_Dad said:
I was hoping the YAMAHA S10 crowd were the same and mostly they are, which is a good thing.
But we need to get R3B, Dallara and Markjenn together for a drink one day. ;D
R3b,Dallara,MarkJenn together for drinks = PPV
Throw in JimVonBaden for tag teams. Just kidding these guys they are all smarter than me and got to love their passion.
Throw in JimVonBaden for tag teams. Just kidding these guys they are all smarter than me and got to love their passion.
scott123007
Well-Known Member
Wrong forum, girl scoutsTrue Grip said:
Dirt_Dad
Well-Known Member
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
::026:: This has been a very comfortable new home for me after largely leaving my Strom life behind. Both groups have a similar attitude to them. I still keep contact with several of my old Strom buddies and will for the foreseeable future. I expect to say the same about the group here someday.GrahamD said:
This reminds me of a Consumer Report article a few months ago where they wrote about the motorcycle reliability and customer satisfaction. They remarked about how they thought it was strange that although BMW and Harley were two of the most unreliable brands of motorcycles, their owners had the highest satisfaction. ::025::
I'm not sure what to think of that.
I'm not sure what to think of that.