R1200GS vs Super Tenere - Operating cost comparison
- Thread starter TXTenere
- Start date
I suspect it's under warranty and won't affect his operating cost a bit unless.....RonH said:
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he's like the IBR guys I know then there's been more then just a bit of tinkering going on with the RT. I wasn't aware the RT had adaptive head lights. hmmmm are you sure about that?
Sounds like he should run, not walk, to the nearest Honda dealership and work out a trade deal. That's what I'd do if I were Greg Rice.
My Aunt Tillley has a neighbor who's sister is married to a girl in Cleveland that has a neighbors who knows a guy' sister that owned a Super Tenere until...... awww never mind, it aint' pretty!
)Paul
I got a question on operating cost....
I had just left the dealership on Saturday, after the free lunch, and was making the 69 mile trip home. about a mile from the dealership the TPM warring light comes on indicating low pressure in the rear tire. I park it on the center stand to check and sure enough, a nail puncture. Ooops, the puncture repair kit is home on the bench, I hadn't gotten around to pitting it on the new R1200R. The dealership doesn't plug tire and I'm OK with that so I purchased a new Z8.
My question is: Does the cost of tire replacement because on a nail puncture get charged to operating cost even though it's not a normal were & tear replacement? Not charged? fully charged?, pro-rated?
Paul
I had just left the dealership on Saturday, after the free lunch, and was making the 69 mile trip home. about a mile from the dealership the TPM warring light comes on indicating low pressure in the rear tire. I park it on the center stand to check and sure enough, a nail puncture. Ooops, the puncture repair kit is home on the bench, I hadn't gotten around to pitting it on the new R1200R. The dealership doesn't plug tire and I'm OK with that so I purchased a new Z8.
My question is: Does the cost of tire replacement because on a nail puncture get charged to operating cost even though it's not a normal were & tear replacement? Not charged? fully charged?, pro-rated?
Paul
SilverBullet
Well-Known Member
Yes you must charge it to operating cost because the BMW dealer doesn't repair. If you ride a S10, V-Strom, KLR (insert other budget Jap bike) you just visit your nearest Walmart and buy a plug kit and compact Slime air pump. Out the door for less than $20 and 5 minutes later your tire is repaired and on the road again. Lol lolBig Blu said:
_
Yes, to me also it would apply to both cost of operation and cost of ownership. It came out of my pocket and was needed to have the bike. However, the amount was up to you, as YOU had the choice to plug it yourself or to have the dealer put a new tire on.
Most dealers no longer plug tires due to liability concerns and I can't blame them for that. It's not just BMW dealers.SilverBullet said:
I "always" have a plug kit with me, I have a kit for every bike I own. This bike is a 5 week old, the kit I removed from my trade-in was sitting on my work bench at home. Ahh, the price of procrastination! Yep, even BMW owner carry tire repair kits, and we also shop Walmart. I did give Walmart a thought but didn't know where the nearest one was located. Rather then search for a Walmart I returned to the dealer because it was late in the day, time was short, I had a dinner plan and a promise(not to missed, especially at my age!), and I knew the dealer would quickly take good care of me with either a new tire or a loaner bike to get me home if they didn't have the proper tire in stock.
So now my question is: Can I subtract the cost I would have paid for a lunch from the cost of the tire since the dealer provided a free lunch that day and on every Saturday?
Paul
Ramseybella
Well-Known Member
Nope!
He should have bought you dinner since you brought it back to the shop!!
Hell you should have bought him dinner for coming back late.. :-*
He should have bought you dinner since you brought it back to the shop!!
Hell you should have bought him dinner for coming back late.. :-*
::026::RhodeTrip said:
Don't we ride what we ride because that's what we want?
If you are going to take purchase price, depreciation etc. into it why would anyone pay $30,000 for a Harley and only ride it when the sun is shining? Or better yet, here in Wisconsin people shell out $10 -$15.000 for a snowmobile that they only can ride on the trails(which were only open for 2 weeks this year) or truck it to another state that has snow. Hell, I have a 72 Toyota Land Cruiser that I'm going to break something on it every time I take it out. Why do we do this? Because we want to. Riding a motorcycle saves my sanity.
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scott123007
Well-Known Member
I think for some on here, that banner should say "Ride More, Envy Less" Just sayin' ::017::motoguy said:
Cost of ownership has so many variables, it is difficult to put a terribly fine point on it. And there are some folks who simply want to dump on a bike with their own preconceptions of costs (or they cherry-pick their data) making it even more difficult to make an accurate comparison.
I've owned a handful of BMWs, a half-dozen Yamahas and oddles of Japanese bikes. My overall take is that the BMWs have about twice the number of problems as Japanese bikes and cost about 30% more to own, including depreciation, operating cost, repairs, etc. But both can give fantastic service with acceptable costs, especially if you do your own maintenance. So whether the extra hassles and expense is compensated for by a better riding experience is pretty subjective. For me, sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. I went with the BMW in 2010 when I was comparing a S1000RR vs. R1 or CBR but went with the Yamaha in 2011 when I was comparing a S10 vs. a GS. But today's GS is a radically improved bike from a 2012 GS whereas the S10 improvements have been incremental at best. And the price difference today is probably less than its been in some time - in fact, the base prices are almost the same.
- Mark
I've owned a handful of BMWs, a half-dozen Yamahas and oddles of Japanese bikes. My overall take is that the BMWs have about twice the number of problems as Japanese bikes and cost about 30% more to own, including depreciation, operating cost, repairs, etc. But both can give fantastic service with acceptable costs, especially if you do your own maintenance. So whether the extra hassles and expense is compensated for by a better riding experience is pretty subjective. For me, sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. I went with the BMW in 2010 when I was comparing a S1000RR vs. R1 or CBR but went with the Yamaha in 2011 when I was comparing a S10 vs. a GS. But today's GS is a radically improved bike from a 2012 GS whereas the S10 improvements have been incremental at best. And the price difference today is probably less than its been in some time - in fact, the base prices are almost the same.
- Mark
+1scott123007 said:
You hit the nail squarely on the head.
Paul
scott123007 said:
More along my thinking
Ramseybella
Well-Known Member
Hey guys, it's been a while. I had a 2013 S10 that I put 14k on and thoroughly enjoyed. I stopped by today to find an older post of mine for a friend with an S10, and noticed you were having a thread to talk about my GSA LC TCO post over on advrider. I'm honored. I read through the responses, and did some updating to the spreadsheet to make an apples - apples comparison of GSA <> S10 to the extent that I could. It's important to keep in mind that my criteria may be very different than yours, but here are some assumptions that drive the numbers.
- 3 yrs , 36k, then sell and by something else new. If you run either bike into the ground, the numbers will be very different. I typically don't even make the 3yrs, but I'm trying.
- Dealer service, by the book, at my local dealers. I am a rare and lucky individual to live within 2 miles of both BMW and Yamaha dealers. The service prices in the spreadsheet are based on real numbers from those dealers. I updated it so the service due @ 36k was not included, with the assumption you sell the bike with 35,999 miles. Interesting, and likely surprising to many folks, is that the dealer service cost of the Yamaha was very nearly double. $5178.30 vs 2589.91 for the BMW. If you choose not to service either bike at recommended intervals, it will be cheaper. If you choose to do the service yourself, it will be cheaper.
- My purchase price for my LOADED GSA was $27k. You can't compare that to a 2013 S10 $8.5k close out. But I took a stab at assuming a $13k S10 ES purchase price which is the going rate around here for 2015 closeouts and easy to come by. Then I optioned it as close as I could to my BMW which put it up to $18k.
All said and done, the 3 yr TCO was $21,842 for the GSA LC, $19,393 for the Yamaha, A difference of $2,449 over 3 yrs. One thing that is not considered is the lost opportunity cost of the $9K purchase price difference. The updated spreadsheet is at the same link.
It's all subjective, but I did my best to be fair given my contsraints above. Other thoughts after reading the thread and owning both bikes:
- I've owned 4 BMWs as warranty bikes, in that I did not keep them past the warranty. In roughly 100k miles across those, I delayed one trip to fix a coolant leak, replaced on clutch slave @ 400 miles, and one set of handlebar switches at 10k.
- In my year of S10 ownership, I just had the headlight recall.
- There was a comment about tires costing the same, but the reality is the BMW size is exclusive the BMW, there are less choices, and the same choice in the BMW size commands a bit of a premium.
- I get 42mpg on the BMW, I got closer to 36MPG on the S10.
- I figure I'd use one less set of tires on the S10 based on my experience with both bikes.
- My S10 insurance was slightly cheaper
- Brake replacement is cheaper on the S10 (again, by the dealer)
There was a set of things that the GSA LC has that I couldn't really match on the S10
- LED headlight
- The suspension on the BMW is very different, the Dynamic ESA makes real time damping adjustments based on swing arm movement, speed, pitch etc. It's really quite amazing. (and complicated)
- The GPS integration on the BMW is quite handy
- My BMW has the Gear Shift Assistant Pro, which electronically rev matches on your behalf based on shift lever input and allows very well executed clutchless shifting once underway.
- my bmw has keyless operation with just a fob in your pocket.
My GSA LC positives relative the the S10...
- Performance. It's faster, and it feels a lot faster. No I didn't change my life by having a reflash. Not sure how much that would close the gap. Fueling is much more linear on the BMW, again no reflash.
- Braking performance and feel is 'better.'
- The bike is smoother, but my S10 was a 2013, so the 2014 likely closes that gap.
- Ground clearance, especially with a skid plate.
- Stock suspension works for me, where the Tenere was at it's limit with my 300lb bulk.
- The BMW is easier to work on for just about anything. High quality hardware, torx fasteners, easy access. If you do choose to do your own maintenance, the BMW is a breeze with the heads sticking out. Pulling wheels for tires swaps is dramatically easier on the BMW.
- It feels much lighter on and off pavement, but they are almost the same weight
- 320 mile range
My S10 positives vs. the GSA LC
- The off idle power delivery is slightly nicer off pavement
- Reliability. Perceived, as I'd consider, based on my personal experience, that they are equivalent. That said, I never worried about the S10, but the BMW bugs me when I get far off the beaten path, even though they've never given me a reason to worry.
- Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I've always liked the look of the S10 better than the BMW GS/GSA
- No massive exposed radiator
- BMW rear end has a lot of spray in the rain, all over the back of my legs, etc. S10 kept things down a lot better
- The S10 pegs are two inches closer horizontally to the bars. This is better for standing.
- The BMW lower profile tires are harder to change, and leave rims more vulnerable.
Bottom line, they are two great bikes. I'm looking forward to future offerings from both companies.
::021::
I read through the responses, and did some updating to the spreadsheet to make an apples - apples comparison of GSA <> S10 to the extent that I could. It's important to keep in mind that my criteria may be very different than yours, but here are some assumptions that drive the numbers. - 3 yrs , 36k, then sell and by something else new. If you run either bike into the ground, the numbers will be very different. I typically don't even make the 3yrs, but I'm trying.
- Dealer service, by the book, at my local dealers. I am a rare and lucky individual to live within 2 miles of both BMW and Yamaha dealers. The service prices in the spreadsheet are based on real numbers from those dealers. I updated it so the service due @ 36k was not included, with the assumption you sell the bike with 35,999 miles. Interesting, and likely surprising to many folks, is that the dealer service cost of the Yamaha was very nearly double. $5178.30 vs 2589.91 for the BMW. If you choose not to service either bike at recommended intervals, it will be cheaper. If you choose to do the service yourself, it will be cheaper.
- My purchase price for my LOADED GSA was $27k. You can't compare that to a 2013 S10 $8.5k close out. But I took a stab at assuming a $13k S10 ES purchase price which is the going rate around here for 2015 closeouts and easy to come by. Then I optioned it as close as I could to my BMW which put it up to $18k.
All said and done, the 3 yr TCO was $21,842 for the GSA LC, $19,393 for the Yamaha, A difference of $2,449 over 3 yrs. One thing that is not considered is the lost opportunity cost of the $9K purchase price difference. The updated spreadsheet is at the same link.
It's all subjective, but I did my best to be fair given my contsraints above. Other thoughts after reading the thread and owning both bikes:
- I've owned 4 BMWs as warranty bikes, in that I did not keep them past the warranty. In roughly 100k miles across those, I delayed one trip to fix a coolant leak, replaced on clutch slave @ 400 miles, and one set of handlebar switches at 10k.
- In my year of S10 ownership, I just had the headlight recall.
- There was a comment about tires costing the same, but the reality is the BMW size is exclusive the BMW, there are less choices, and the same choice in the BMW size commands a bit of a premium.
- I get 42mpg on the BMW, I got closer to 36MPG on the S10.
- I figure I'd use one less set of tires on the S10 based on my experience with both bikes.
- My S10 insurance was slightly cheaper
- Brake replacement is cheaper on the S10 (again, by the dealer)
There was a set of things that the GSA LC has that I couldn't really match on the S10
- LED headlight
- The suspension on the BMW is very different, the Dynamic ESA makes real time damping adjustments based on swing arm movement, speed, pitch etc. It's really quite amazing. (and complicated)
- The GPS integration on the BMW is quite handy
- My BMW has the Gear Shift Assistant Pro, which electronically rev matches on your behalf based on shift lever input and allows very well executed clutchless shifting once underway.
- my bmw has keyless operation with just a fob in your pocket.
My GSA LC positives relative the the S10...
- Performance. It's faster, and it feels a lot faster. No I didn't change my life by having a reflash. Not sure how much that would close the gap. Fueling is much more linear on the BMW, again no reflash.
- Braking performance and feel is 'better.'
- The bike is smoother, but my S10 was a 2013, so the 2014 likely closes that gap.
- Ground clearance, especially with a skid plate.
- Stock suspension works for me, where the Tenere was at it's limit with my 300lb bulk.
- The BMW is easier to work on for just about anything. High quality hardware, torx fasteners, easy access. If you do choose to do your own maintenance, the BMW is a breeze with the heads sticking out. Pulling wheels for tires swaps is dramatically easier on the BMW.
- It feels much lighter on and off pavement, but they are almost the same weight
- 320 mile range
My S10 positives vs. the GSA LC
- The off idle power delivery is slightly nicer off pavement
- Reliability. Perceived, as I'd consider, based on my personal experience, that they are equivalent. That said, I never worried about the S10, but the BMW bugs me when I get far off the beaten path, even though they've never given me a reason to worry.
- Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I've always liked the look of the S10 better than the BMW GS/GSA
- No massive exposed radiator
- BMW rear end has a lot of spray in the rain, all over the back of my legs, etc. S10 kept things down a lot better
- The S10 pegs are two inches closer horizontally to the bars. This is better for standing.
- The BMW lower profile tires are harder to change, and leave rims more vulnerable.
Bottom line, they are two great bikes. I'm looking forward to future offerings from both companies.
::021::
Direct link to spreadsheet. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SC-ZR5RdSNYyH9giJjQJTQhW-tdrHylUB-mx_PReRXE/pub?output=pdf
shrekonwheels
New Member
People buy things to keep up with the jonses,they also have the fiscal sense of the Government. Most americans are one pay check from bankruptcy, buying expensive crap to use twice a year is idiotic and irresponsible. The buy what you want is nonsense pushed by those who are trying to get your money, like the ridiculous saying the guy with the most toys wins, no he lost, he missed out on life putting his faith in false objects and giving away hard earned money so he could simply work more. Nobody will be on their death bed looking back n life saying gee, I wish I had worked more overtime.motoguy said:
Riding keeps us all sane, but owing someone else money creates stress, who needs that?
If you can afford an expensive bike with ease, then by all means buy it if you cannot will your riding quality somehow be diminished on a cheaper ride? After all as you said riding keeps your sanity, not what you ride.
I put more miles in my mountain bikes in a year vs what my friends do on their four wheelers, they should be embarrassed.
Hmmmm, shouldn't each and everyone of us decide for ourselves what is important to us, based on our values, and act accordingly? If it feel good, makes ya smile, and does no harm to others , why not do it?. No one should "be on their death bed looking back n life saying gee," I shoulda have I coulda, that would be a tragic ending.shrekonwheels said:
I see no need for others to "be embarrassed" because their interest are different then mine, sounds a bit like envy.. and that's not a god thing. Different strokes for different folks, as life should be. Live long, be happy, and prosper!
Paul
Paul
Goldwing
Active Member
Hey SPX, Very interesting data...I'm not too surprised but amazing when you see it on paper................the BMW is more than double the cost per mile to operate!
trainman
New Member
the BMW service intervals on here are 4k, so there are 3 more visits and a higher total cost, is that right?, in UK my bikes were 6k,krussell said:
used to enjoy doing the valves on the GS's, easy peasy - wouldn't dare on the S10!