Ramseybella
Well-Known Member
Re: problem shifting
???Checkswrecks said:
problem shifting
- Thread starter T9tenere
- Start date
Re: problem shifting
Got the bike to my dealer. The owner of the dealership owns a ST. We got his out and tested it against mine. The verdict?... I definitely have clutch drag. The service manager said it is almost always due to the basket. I told him about all the reports here that the 2014 basket is a redesign. He said he'd lobby Yamaha to make it happen. I also asked him about the CCT as long as he had the case off and he said he'd look into it. This YES warranty may be worth its weight in gold.
I am starting to question... just how much more reliable is the Tenere over its competitors?
Got the bike to my dealer. The owner of the dealership owns a ST. We got his out and tested it against mine. The verdict?... I definitely have clutch drag. The service manager said it is almost always due to the basket. I told him about all the reports here that the 2014 basket is a redesign. He said he'd lobby Yamaha to make it happen. I also asked him about the CCT as long as he had the case off and he said he'd look into it. This YES warranty may be worth its weight in gold.
I am starting to question... just how much more reliable is the Tenere over its competitors?
Ramseybella
Well-Known Member
Re: problem shifting
For a completely new designed engine just three years old I say it has minimum problems compared to the competition..
Every one of them have some issues.trikepilot said:
For a completely new designed engine just three years old I say it has minimum problems compared to the competition..
Dogdaze
Well-Known Member
Re: problem shifting
Is it beacuse bikes are updated so often to keep interest so parts are made cheaply and become unreliable.....................?
I posed this same question to my wife last night, but about cars, I drive a BMW X3 and in 75k miles in nearly 4 years, zip!! Not a single issue, nor the one before that or the one before that (Volvo), in fact I cannot remember the last time I had an issue with car (except Audi 200 Turbo in the '90's that had computer issue, 'cos they wanted 11 of the things to operate the car ::010:Ramseybella said:
Is it beacuse bikes are updated so often to keep interest so parts are made cheaply and become unreliable.....................?
Re: problem shifting
The Latest GS had several recalls before the first bike even landed on UK shores, within a year of launch many had entire engines swapped and a couple of bikes swapped out for new ones.
Now I am not trying to bash BMW here, but the question was about reliability over its competitors, IMO it seems to have done a lot better than BMW, especially if you look at the first 1200's which had so many electrical and final drive issues few owners got more than a couple of months before the bikes failed totally.
A mate of mine bought a 1200 Triumph, it is a year newer than my Super Ten (he bought it December 2012) has about 6,000 miles on it, and has had - A New Cylinder Head, New Final Drive Assembly and a new Engine Management ECU.
Poke around some Ducati forums to see how Multistrada owners are getting on ::008::
The Super Ten has a few minor niggles which affect a very small percentage of bikes, not bad IMO. I think the Yamaha is as good as the other Jap bikes in this class, all of which are a cut above the Europeans IMO.
In 18k and 3 1/2 years my 2008 GS (MU = Model Upgrade, which was the 5th production year and apparently had had all the faults fixed) managed to have had 2 small recalls (one was brake line routing, cannot remember the other one) warped 2 discs, blew 2 fork seals, had a stalling issue (never resolved) a gearbox leak (they all do that sir) Intermittent ABS failure (never resolved) and some problem with the front suspension (knocking from the funny front end) At this point I traded it for the Tenere.trikepilot said:
The Latest GS had several recalls before the first bike even landed on UK shores, within a year of launch many had entire engines swapped and a couple of bikes swapped out for new ones.
Now I am not trying to bash BMW here, but the question was about reliability over its competitors, IMO it seems to have done a lot better than BMW, especially if you look at the first 1200's which had so many electrical and final drive issues few owners got more than a couple of months before the bikes failed totally.
A mate of mine bought a 1200 Triumph, it is a year newer than my Super Ten (he bought it December 2012) has about 6,000 miles on it, and has had - A New Cylinder Head, New Final Drive Assembly and a new Engine Management ECU.
Poke around some Ducati forums to see how Multistrada owners are getting on ::008::
The Super Ten has a few minor niggles which affect a very small percentage of bikes, not bad IMO. I think the Yamaha is as good as the other Jap bikes in this class, all of which are a cut above the Europeans IMO.
Dogdaze
Well-Known Member
Re: problem shifting
I have owned over 35 bikes and the older ones seemded to have less issues......unless you count carbs.
I was not referring about complete bike failure, more about small niggles that will crop up, clutch drag, clutch chudder, ecu issues, CCT's etc, nothing major, just small things that would otherwise inhibit a nice riding day, but not just S10's, all bikes seem to suffer from this.........20valves said:
I have owned over 35 bikes and the older ones seemded to have less issues......unless you count carbs.
Ramseybella
Well-Known Member
Re: problem shifting
What was this subject? ::002::
My bladder doesn't hold as much as it used to! ::003::
What was this subject? ::002::
My bladder doesn't hold as much as it used to! ::003::
Re: problem shifting
A disappointing update.... that still makes me continue to question Yamaha's commitment to quality.
Heard back from the dealer today on my 2012 Tenere. Clutch drag was due to irregularity in the OEM machining of the basket. They are replacing everything under the YES warranty for free. I am not sure what they are doing as he said in an offhand kinda way - "you are getting $5k in parts for free."
But here's the kicker... I had asked him to inquire with Yamaha about going ahead and replacing the basket with the 2014 version and do the CCT while in there. He said that Yamaha refuses to do it. He says the 2014 clutch basket is not a part number that has superseded the 2012 part number so it is not an exact swap and Yamaha does not believe that it is compatible with my bike. Guess they dont visit this forum eh?
And then on the CCT... Yamaha denied my request to go ahead and do it while the case is off and he told me that while he could get the CCT to rattle and clack on cold start-up - he could not get it to do it long enough to get Yamaha to do the fix now. I asked him if he would prefer me to wait till it fails and Yamaha gets to replace the whole engine and all he could do was to agree with me and say his hands are tied by Yamaha.
So next week I'll will get my bike back with the old loose CCT that lets the cam chain clack around for a bit but "not long enough" and a "brand new" 2012 clutch basket and lord knows what else. I guess it'll work for the short-term but it is frustrating!!
A disappointing update.... that still makes me continue to question Yamaha's commitment to quality.
Heard back from the dealer today on my 2012 Tenere. Clutch drag was due to irregularity in the OEM machining of the basket. They are replacing everything under the YES warranty for free. I am not sure what they are doing as he said in an offhand kinda way - "you are getting $5k in parts for free."
But here's the kicker... I had asked him to inquire with Yamaha about going ahead and replacing the basket with the 2014 version and do the CCT while in there. He said that Yamaha refuses to do it. He says the 2014 clutch basket is not a part number that has superseded the 2012 part number so it is not an exact swap and Yamaha does not believe that it is compatible with my bike. Guess they dont visit this forum eh?
And then on the CCT... Yamaha denied my request to go ahead and do it while the case is off and he told me that while he could get the CCT to rattle and clack on cold start-up - he could not get it to do it long enough to get Yamaha to do the fix now. I asked him if he would prefer me to wait till it fails and Yamaha gets to replace the whole engine and all he could do was to agree with me and say his hands are tied by Yamaha.
So next week I'll will get my bike back with the old loose CCT that lets the cam chain clack around for a bit but "not long enough" and a "brand new" 2012 clutch basket and lord knows what else. I guess it'll work for the short-term but it is frustrating!!
Dirt_Dad
Well-Known Member
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
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2014 Site Supporter
Re: problem shifting
I don't understand why the CCT is denied. I had both of mine replaced under YES.
I'm glad Yam is stepping up to fix the bike, but not happy to hear that it needs fixing. Good thing you bike had the YES when you bought it.
Really...$5K in parts? Add that with labor and wouldn't it be cheaper to give you a new engine?trikepilot said:
I don't understand why the CCT is denied. I had both of mine replaced under YES.
I'm glad Yam is stepping up to fix the bike, but not happy to hear that it needs fixing. Good thing you bike had the YES when you bought it.
Re: problem shifting
I would have thought your dealer could maybe have done more.
I assume he told Yamaha it "does not do it very long" or whatever, I would make sure my dealer knew they are known to be problematic and reported it as very bad.
They may be tied on the basket as perhaps Yamaha ship the part rather than refund them the value, if it was a value refund I would ask for them to order the 2014 and I would pay any difference (if there is any) but I can see how going against Yamaha's advice could cause them concern.
Dunno where they came with $5k from, especially with US pricing - you could replace 75% of the bike for that, again I have no idea why your dealer is being so secretive, he sounds like a bit of an arse to me. I have had warranty work done on a number of bikes over the years and the dealers have always been honest about the work required.
I would have thought your dealer could maybe have done more.
I assume he told Yamaha it "does not do it very long" or whatever, I would make sure my dealer knew they are known to be problematic and reported it as very bad.
They may be tied on the basket as perhaps Yamaha ship the part rather than refund them the value, if it was a value refund I would ask for them to order the 2014 and I would pay any difference (if there is any) but I can see how going against Yamaha's advice could cause them concern.
Dunno where they came with $5k from, especially with US pricing - you could replace 75% of the bike for that, again I have no idea why your dealer is being so secretive, he sounds like a bit of an arse to me. I have had warranty work done on a number of bikes over the years and the dealers have always been honest about the work required.
Ramseybella
Well-Known Member
Re: problem shifting
Your getting hosed by your dealer, he should do much more than be sarcastic.
I talked to Yamaha U.S.A. rep today after getting the 2014 basket installed this morning, and told him that this bike has been transformed to an incredible motorcycle because of it.
I explained the 14 baskets are selling so fast out of stock because we are ahead of the game and Yamaha should get with the program and not redesign stuff and not fix the crap that they left in our older bikes.
I am grateful for all you guys that push the envelop to get this bike to what it should be, Yamaha and our dealers should do the same.
I have just fell in love with this beast all over again, and i haven't got a ECU flash done yet. ::017::
Your getting hosed by your dealer, he should do much more than be sarcastic.
I talked to Yamaha U.S.A. rep today after getting the 2014 basket installed this morning, and told him that this bike has been transformed to an incredible motorcycle because of it.
I explained the 14 baskets are selling so fast out of stock because we are ahead of the game and Yamaha should get with the program and not redesign stuff and not fix the crap that they left in our older bikes.
I am grateful for all you guys that push the envelop to get this bike to what it should be, Yamaha and our dealers should do the same.
I have just fell in love with this beast all over again, and i haven't got a ECU flash done yet. ::017::
Re: problem shifting
My service manager is great. He has lobbied for and gotten me warranty work on the swingarm bearing issue and rear pumpkin leaks I had that could easily have been argued as rough use or even abuse by MammaYama if they wanted to. I am not sure what he meant by the the $5k figure or maybe I misheard him and he said $500. Gonna stop by there this afternoon on the way home and talk in person.
I offered to pay the difference on the 14 basket and then offered to buy it outright and he told me that Yamaha refuses to put a part in the bike that was not designed for it and that had not been tested and proven to work. Now we all out here in forum-land know differently, but Yamaha has their head in the sand. This is not a money motivated issue. Yamaha is simply in denial that there is any problem with the 2012 baskets and that the 2014 basket fits just fine and performs much better. I am gonna reserve judgment until I get the bike back and ride it to see what the situation is. With the tutorial here at the forum, I may just do the basket myself this winter and end up with a 2012 basket with few miles on it sitting here as a backup.
The CCT situation dumbfounds me. It is acknowledged by the dealer to be allowing chain slap at startup but not enough to meet their threshold for repair. What?? The part is faulty but not faulty enough? Do they think it will get "better?" They have the case off the engine already so the repair would be easy and would prevent future damage should it grenade in the engine.
Thus my question from several posts above about Yamahas quality and commitment to quality. Far too often at this forum the members keep referring to the 2014 clutch basket as a mod. It is NOT a mod. It is a FIX for a problem that Yamaha will not acknowledge. It astounds me that in todays digital savvy age that any corporation that makes something that has an enthusiast fill forum online does not have an employee charged with sifting thru all the real world data to make their products better. I cannot imagine a more cost effective way to innovate, improve quality, and keep customer loyalty.
My service manager is great. He has lobbied for and gotten me warranty work on the swingarm bearing issue and rear pumpkin leaks I had that could easily have been argued as rough use or even abuse by MammaYama if they wanted to. I am not sure what he meant by the the $5k figure or maybe I misheard him and he said $500. Gonna stop by there this afternoon on the way home and talk in person.
I offered to pay the difference on the 14 basket and then offered to buy it outright and he told me that Yamaha refuses to put a part in the bike that was not designed for it and that had not been tested and proven to work. Now we all out here in forum-land know differently, but Yamaha has their head in the sand. This is not a money motivated issue. Yamaha is simply in denial that there is any problem with the 2012 baskets and that the 2014 basket fits just fine and performs much better. I am gonna reserve judgment until I get the bike back and ride it to see what the situation is. With the tutorial here at the forum, I may just do the basket myself this winter and end up with a 2012 basket with few miles on it sitting here as a backup.
The CCT situation dumbfounds me. It is acknowledged by the dealer to be allowing chain slap at startup but not enough to meet their threshold for repair. What?? The part is faulty but not faulty enough? Do they think it will get "better?" They have the case off the engine already so the repair would be easy and would prevent future damage should it grenade in the engine.
Thus my question from several posts above about Yamahas quality and commitment to quality. Far too often at this forum the members keep referring to the 2014 clutch basket as a mod. It is NOT a mod. It is a FIX for a problem that Yamaha will not acknowledge. It astounds me that in todays digital savvy age that any corporation that makes something that has an enthusiast fill forum online does not have an employee charged with sifting thru all the real world data to make their products better. I cannot imagine a more cost effective way to innovate, improve quality, and keep customer loyalty.
Dogdaze
Well-Known Member
Re: problem shifting
I see it as this; if a Yamaha (or any bike maunufacturer) admits that a new version of an item (clutch basket) works in the older model with marked improvement and reliablity it then has to change and replace all the previous' model under a recall and that would cost a lot more than replacing the odd one that a dealer lobbies to have changed. Suzuki VZR1800 (M109) had a similar issue with the clutch, where it would actually lock up while moving, not good all round, but yet to admit an issue even though nearly every owner replaced the nut and springs.
I see the best way forward, is to pay for a 2014 version basket and carry out the work yourself or get an independant to do the work, denying less than cooperative dealers any finances. At least you'll sleep better and enjoy your bike.
I see it as this; if a Yamaha (or any bike maunufacturer) admits that a new version of an item (clutch basket) works in the older model with marked improvement and reliablity it then has to change and replace all the previous' model under a recall and that would cost a lot more than replacing the odd one that a dealer lobbies to have changed. Suzuki VZR1800 (M109) had a similar issue with the clutch, where it would actually lock up while moving, not good all round, but yet to admit an issue even though nearly every owner replaced the nut and springs.
I see the best way forward, is to pay for a 2014 version basket and carry out the work yourself or get an independant to do the work, denying less than cooperative dealers any finances. At least you'll sleep better and enjoy your bike.
tomatocity
Active Member
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Re: problem shifting
Subject ?
Subject ?
Re: problem shifting
We will see if a new 2012 basket is the fix for OP's engagement problem. If it does then Yamaha did the proper thing. They are not replacing it for a reduction in vibes.
Yamaha USA is not going to install 2014 baskets under warranty if Japan has not listed it as a part for our older bikes weather it fits or not.
Installing a 2014 basket in my 2012 helped with vibration. No difference in performance of the clutch. Engages and disengages exactly same as before. It was replaced for vibes and it corrected that.zimmerdj said:
We will see if a new 2012 basket is the fix for OP's engagement problem. If it does then Yamaha did the proper thing. They are not replacing it for a reduction in vibes.
Yamaha USA is not going to install 2014 baskets under warranty if Japan has not listed it as a part for our older bikes weather it fits or not.
Re: problem shifting
As per my post above... the dealer swapped out my basket under warranty due to - according to them - a manufacturing defect that had been there since OEM assembly. This defect would not allow the clutch to fully disengage apparently. I tried, unsuccessfully, to get Yamaha to put a 14 clutch basket in but they would have nothing to do with it. The "new" 2012 clutch basket has fixed the problem with the clutch disengaging. However, it seems to me that the "clutch shudder" reported by many here in the 3000-350 rpm range is more pronounced. I only have maybe 500 miles since I got the bike back so I am gonna give it some more time to see what is going on. I may just do the 2014 basket myself this winter.zimmerdj said:
Re: problem shifting
YO, OP
What did they find on your clutch?
YO, OP
What did they find on your clutch?