Oil change weirdness

[HamptonYami]

So I changed the oil for the first time today, and with a new filter, the manual states 3.59 qts. And it actually filled to the midpoint, but when I started the bike up, obviously I assumed some oil would be up in new filter, but I put the rest of the 4th qt. in the filler, but it still didn't come up to the sight line at all. Did anyone else have to add more than 4 qts there first oil change?

 

[MidlifeMotor]

Make sure you are on level ground when on the center stand. Run the bike for the recommended time period then turn it off. Wait the recommended time before checking level. Oil level should be fine with the recommended amount. Folks have continued to add oil as you did and they return later and the oil level is up past the sight glass circle. I recommend following the directions of the manual as closely as possible and following the manufacturers recommended amounts. There is a thread here somewhere on this same topic.

Yes, it's one of the weird things about the S10. It's the bike, not you

Good luck and safe riding!

 

[NoMorBills]

It's a dry sump engine. The level in the resevoir is not that critical as long as it is in the glass or even a little over. 3.59 or 4 is fine

 

[HamptonYami]

I did follow the directions the manual to the T, but even after it cooled down and was on level ground, can't see anything through the sight glass.

 

[tpak]

I did follow the directions the manual to the T, but even after it cooled down and was on level ground, can't see anything through the sight glass.

If you are confident you put enough in ride it for 15 or 20 minutes and then put up on the center-stand and let it cool/settle. I had the same issue and ended up overfilling it past the top of the sight glass. I drained some to get it back to the middle, rode it for 10 minutes, checked it (was in the middle) and then today, rode it 150 miles, just looked at it again after letting it cool and it is near the top of the sight glass. It's a little wacky to deal with ever changing "levels" in the sight glass but I guess that is just how it is with this bike.

 

[MidlifeMotor]

If you are confident you put enough in ride it for 15 or 20 minutes and then put up on the center-stand and let it cool/settle. I had the same issue and ended up overfilling it past the top of the sight glass. I drained some to get it back to the middle, rode it for 10 minutes, checked it (was in the middle) and then today, rode it 150 miles, just looked at it again after letting it cool and it is near the top of the sight glass. It's a little wacky to deal with ever changing "levels" in the sight glass but I guess that is just how it is with this bike.

Well put. ::021::

 

[ErnsTT]

It's a little wacky to deal with ever changing "levels" in the sight glass but I guess that is just how it is with this bike.

Yup, thats how it is, but you always have the oillevel lamp, that flashes on way to early, so as long as thats not glowing there is nothing to worry, though it can also glow up when oil is really cold, and is pumped into the angine faster then the cold oil is dripping back into the sump to be picked up by the scavange part of the trochoid, but once warmed it will go out again, just fill up with 250 cc no more.

Any oil above the dot in the middle will be vented when the engine really heats up on long hauls or riding serious sticky mud.

 

[tomatocity]

http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=1494.0

Has already been discussed many times.

If you buy oil by the gallon... remove 13 ounces (.4 of a quart) from the container and and pour the remaining 3.6 quarts in. If you drained the oil on the sidestand and replaced the oil filter you can't be wrong.

 

[HamptonYami]

Roger that guys. Thanks

 

[Wanderer]

Howdy,
Just my 2 cents worth, I just did my 2nd change after having fits with the first with the ever changing site glass, so I bought a nice Pyrex measuring cup, drained the oil on the side stand, changed the filter and put in 3.5 liters assuming I was not going to get all the oil out of the cup with each pour. Pulled it out of the boat house (I live in an old Coast Gaurd Station) fired her up let her run the specified time, pulled back in, let her sit the specified time and the oil was close to the half way mark. Very Happy !!! Went on a nice 375 mile ride, got home checked the oil and it's over the sight glass!!!! WTF
Later,
Norm

 

[GrahamD]

Went on a nice 375 mile ride, got home checked the oil and it's over the sight glass!!!! WTF

Hot expanding oil?

Anyway it's just sitting in a tank so over is good, not seeing anything in the glass = bad.

You put the right amount of oil in, and you can see oil, so don't panic.

Being Dry sump the pistons aren't sitting in there slapping themselves into a large incompressible puddle. The pistons wouldn't even know the difference until there is no oil in the tank.

I'm trying to remember what I did. I think it went like this..

Heat up bike until fan comes on, therefore avoiding Hard starting.
Put bike on side stand.
Place tray under bolts. <-- very important step.
Remove bolts.
R&R filter.
Make tea.
Drink Tea while reading YamahaSuperTenere.com and ADV.
Replace bolts with new washers under bolts. <-- Important step.
Put on centre stand.
Poor oil in until It appears in the sight glass.
Start bike.
Watch oil disappear.
Stop bike.
Wait 1 minute.
Fill to top of sight glass.
Clean off spilled oil.

Go for a ride.

Hasn't budged since. ::001::

 

[tomatocity]

Do any of you check how much oil you drain from the engine? Thought I would stir the pot.

Guys, it is a sump engine and you will probably get a different reading every time you check it. It bothered me a lot in the beginning then I listened to the experienced ones (not me). I went as far as checking the amount of oil I drained from the engine. "Do the math theory", If you drain 3.5 - 3.6 quarts out and add 3.6 quarts in you can't be wrong. You can't gain oil and if it was coolant being added you would know that by the color.

Can you drain more oil if you tilt the motorcycle? Yes. But this brings up further discussion.

 

[GrahamD]

Do any of you check how much oil you drain from the engine? Thought I would stir the pot.

Nope, but I tend to take notice of the old oils behavior. Stringy or drippy? Black or brown etc.

Didn't even measure how much I put in.

Just read the manual and followed instructions (except for the amount bit)

 

[rem]

Yep, I concur. What the Tomato said. Get a big syringe or a graduated cylinder or whatever, add the exact amount of oil prescribed, and try not to worry about it. I have gotten variable glass readings every time. If you are confident that you added the correct amount, then you're covered. As I understand it, the dry sump has two reservoirs, and the oil may be a little more or a little less in either one from time to time. I know it can be disconcerting to not see any oil in the looking glass, but check it again in a few days and I bet you will. Just be sure you added the correct amount, and Fred's your plumber. R

 

[Wanderer]

HI,
Me once again, I am going to drain a small amount of oil out just to be able to see a little air in the site glass, will try to measure, and at next change will adjust my refill level and will let you know what I find.
Later,
Norm :

 

[GrahamD]

Just be sure you added the correct amount, and Fred's your plumber. R

Yes there is a reservoir and the collection "sump". Either way It doesn't have the same effect as with normal sumps if it is a bit full AFAIK.
What if Garry's your plumber though? ::001::

 

[rem]

Well, in that case, Bob's your Uncle. R

 

[Don in Lodi]

So I changed the oil for the first time today, and with a new filter, the manual states 3.59 qts. And it actually filled to the midpoint, but when I started the bike up, obviously I assumed some oil would be up in new filter, but I put the rest of the 4th qt. in the filler, but it still didn't come up to the sight line at all. Did anyone else have to add more than 4 qts there first oil change?

If over filled, well, filled above the glass window anyway, it's possible you're not even able to pick up the oil due to the new oil's clarity. I have to sneak up to it, otherwise I loose the oil's 'edge' above the sight glass.

 

[tpak]

Yep, I concur. What the Tomato said. Get a big syringe or a graduated cylinder or whatever, add the exact amount of oil prescribed, and try not to worry about it. I have gotten variable glass readings every time. If you are confident that you added the correct amount, then you're covered. As I understand it, the dry sump has two reservoirs, and the oil may be a little more or a little less in either one from time to time. I know it can be disconcerting to not see any oil in the looking glass, but check it again in a few days and I bet you will. Just be sure you added the correct amount, and Fred's your plumber. R

Not that wikipedia is the end all be all but I took a look there this morning and also at my service manual while having coffee. Indeed there are two "reservoirs" if you will, hence the two drain plugs. It seems that the distribution of oil through the entire system at any given moment could cause some to be in the pump or elsewhere and hence the different sight glass readings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_sump

That being said I think EricV sums it up best over in a another thread:

I basically use Tim's method. I have a known container set aside that I pour oil into to draw off the amount less than 1 gal. and then I add the remainder to the bike, setting the drawn off oil aside in another container for later use. I never use the sight glass. I just drain the oil, change the filter and add 3.6 quarts and call it done.

Much of the confusion here seems to be a lack of understanding of dry sump systems. A couple of ounces here or there is pretty meaningless for a dry sump system. The engine will always have the proper amount of oil, it's just the sump level that has a little more or less. The sight glass is in the sump, not the engine oil area. It's not really that accurate, depending on when you check it and how level the surface is while the bike is on the center stand. This is why the owner's manual has such a specific outline for warming the engine up before checking the sight glass level.

Remember, you have two drain plugs, one for the engine area, one for the sump. The engine only holds a relatively small amount of the total capacity. Unlike a wet sump design, all of the oil is not stored in the engine, only ~3/4 of a quart, (WAG, I didn't check the manual).

After a week of checking and watching it go up, down and sideways I'm used to it. If I can see oil I'm not worried.

::021:: it's a ::022::

 

[ErnsTT]

Heat up bike until fan comes on, therefore avoiding Hard starting.
::001::

Beying the Old-Scool mechanic i am, i really have to pull your ears ! >

Never let a bike idle until warm, because the warmth only gets into the head, the complete geartrain stays cold, and all the little debris sticks onto the cold gears, after being pushed through the oil pump onto the cold gears...

Before the oil change, do all the "cold" mechanics, then "check" if everything now is running fine for a roundtrip to the next village pub/diner to eat a donut...

Now when you come back the Complete engine has warmed up at the stay in the diner for lunch...

Pull the plug (don't forget the receptor !) and see the little glistening starletts giving the old brown oil the luster of a Max-Factor stick

Then rock your baby sideways and be amazed at the squirt she gives beying careessed like that
(you did not remove the receptable i hope) and fill your baby up with all new QS or B-R sensilube...

Take her for another spin and check her tights, if they are not leaking, whatch out not to overtighten het threads, and be espacialy carefull with the Filter, it just needs the force of a 3 year old, overtightening will be really painfull at the next filler change...


P.S. hop i did not frighten you too much with grabbing your ears