Oil Analysis - Anyone else?

[stevepsd]

Just had a oil analysis done on my ST (I do them on all my vehicles), and the only item that came back a little high was lead, at 8ppm vs. 3ppm which is Blackstone labs 'universal averages'. They said it is not a concern at this point.

Anyone else had a oil analysis done on their ST?

 

[tomatocity]

Oil? Brand? Weight? Miles on oil when tested? Miles on Tenere when tested? ...?

 

[Don in Lodi]

Where would the elevated lead count come from? Y'all still running leaded fuel out there in the boonies?

 

[markjenn]

High lead is usually an indicator for bearing problems, but I'd go with Blackstone's reassurance for now.

- Mark

 

[Big Blu]

Tell me why you bother with this, does it influence your behavior in anyway or just provide the potential for something to worry about?

Regards, Paul

 

[stevepsd]

Lead is usually bearings, rod and/or main bearing in particular. Don't know if there are any other sources in the ST motor.

I am running Mobil 1 synthetic, 15W-50 (as I run in all my bikes), 3,000 miles on the oil, 15,000 on the bike, OEM oil filter. No leaded gas (that I know of!). No issues with increased lead in any of my other motors (Triumph Tiger1050, KTM 530EXC, Honda XR600R, Yamaha TDM850, Yamaha TTR-125)

I sent off a question to Blackstone regarding their 'universal averages' as I don't know if they are basing it off other ST motors they have done oil analysis on, or 1200cc bikes in general. I know the 'universal averages' are different for each of my vehicles. Hence the question on if others have had a oil analysis done. Blackstone said not to worry, and they have not steered me wrong over the past 12 years. Just curious.

The type of oil and weight will have very little bearing (no pun intended, and assuming you are not running a oil completely non-suited to your application) on the levels of lead found in analysis (or wear metal elements such as aluminum, chromium, iron, copper, tin, etc) but can be significantly different with the elements in the additive package in each type/brand of oil (magnesium, phosphorus, zinc, barium, etc).

Why run a oil-analysis? That is the only way to determine how your engine is wearing, and if there are any potential failures lurking around. That's the reason we pull oil samples on our tactical jets every 25 hours or so (engine, hydraulics, etc), same for the airlines, and lots of heavy-duty equipment operators (our local gold mining operation pulls samples on all their large equipment).

 

[RIVA]

::021:: ::021:: ::021:: ::021::

 

[tomatocity]

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coming from a rider sitting at a keyboard

 

[stevepsd]

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Not worried. Just curious.

And for the peanut gallery out there, since it is MY bike and not yours, if you have nothing worthwhile to contribute, maybe you should be riding more.

 

[knutte-bor-i-amerika]

And for those ppl that "why"...I do it on my car (and will do it on the SupTen when it's time) and at one time there was one value that was high, forgot which, but it was a possible indication of letting air past the airfilter and sure enough, the lid on the airfilter box wasnt properly closed. Thank goodness for Blackstone oil analyses.

 

[tpak]

Haven't done one but was thinking I might every 10k miles or so. I'd suggest we start a thread just for UOA's and post up the report as well as all the background info like oil, mileage, etc etc. So people can have a reference of sorts.

 

[tomatocity]

Not worried. Just curious.

And for the peanut gallery out there, since it is MY bike and not yours, if you have nothing worthwhile to contribute, maybe you should be riding more.

::026::

 

[Karson]

Something I've always considered doing - have the kit and everything. Just neglect to capture a bottle while it's draining everytime I drop the oil!!

 

[Dallara]

Not worried. Just curious.

And for the peanut gallery out there, since it is MY bike and not yours, if you have nothing worthwhile to contribute, maybe you should be riding more.

Isn't it bizarre, yet utterly predictable...

A rider posts that he has upgraded the suspension on his S-10 to better components than stock, and what happens? A bunch of folks posting "You don't need to do that! The stock suspension is fine! Better suspension components are a waste of money!"

Another posts he has put on Yamaha side cases and inevitably someone posts "The Yamaha cases are crap! You should only get (insert Jesse, Micatech, Caribou, Touratech, Happy Trails, or whatever boutique brand you prefer here) for a Super Ténéré!"

But another posts he has installed (insert Jesse, Micatech, Caribou, etc. boutique brand here again) and someone else has to post "Yamaha cases are fine! Those other brands are too much money and not worth it!" and tops it off with a...

::021::


And here you are, asking a valid question about oil analysis, and offering up your results - *WHICH COULD HELP ANY S-10 OWNER ONE DAY* - and wanting to compare analysis results with others with similar interests, and what happens?

Some have to question your motives and imply you worry too much, while others feel compelled to offer nothing more than several repetitions of the same useless emoticon referenced above... Again implying you are somehow worrying too much... Yet offer nothing about their experience or expertise proving how they somehow *know* there is so little to worry about that any oil analysis is somehow a frivolous exercise.

I just don't get it... :-[

I, for one, would love to hear from others who have had oil analysis done. We used to do it all the time with our race car engines and the info provided was always useful. IMHO, those that aren't interested in the subject serve no purpose other than wasting bandwidth to question or make light of your inquiry.

Just my two centavos... OMMV.

Dallara



~

 

[RIVA]

coming from a rider sitting at a keyboard

Bought my S10 in June 2011. I now have 28678 km. on it. I actually do ride it sometimes. I suppose you were riding yours when you posted .

 

[tomatocity]

Bought my S10 in June 2011. I now have 28678 km. on it. I actually do ride it sometimes. I suppose you were riding yours when you posted .

Just my reply to someone asking for information and getting "Ride More Worry Less". Can you tell I don't like that icon. :-[

As Dallara inferred. Do you want a thread filled with unnecessary information or positive helpful information.

I have had a bad year, 7/30/2011 to 9/3/2012, with only 18,489 Tenere miles. I missed a two month 10,000 mile trip to Whitehorse. I do feel lucky to live in a non-snow climate that allows me to enjoy winter riding, as long as I stay out of the Sierra Mountains.

 

[Koinz]

I'd like to stay on topic and ask a question. Not interested in participating in individuals pissing match. Thank You.

Ok, So I believe it's worth doing an oil analysis in extreme use equipment, race vehicles, etc..... My question is, once you have the oil analysis, is the damage already done to the engine or are you able to determine an impending failure from it and if you are able to determine an impending failure, what do you do? Tear down a perfectly good running machine for inspection? or continue running it.

I worked in an engine machine shop for a spell and a huge rock crusher diesel engine was dropped off. Engine must've been 20ft long. They didn't mess with just installing new bearings and sending it back out. Everything was replaced. Crankshaft, piston's and rods, cams. As long as the block didn't have a hole in it, they re-used that part. It's entirely posibble that a routing oil analysis identified an issue before rod's started going throught the block. If that's the case, it's money well spent.

 

[stevepsd]

I'd like to stay on topic and ask a question. Not interested in participating in individuals pissing match. Thank You.

Ok, So I believe it's worth doing an oil analysis in extreme use equipment, race vehicles, etc..... My question is, once you have the oil analysis, is the damage already done to the engine or are you able to determine an impending failure from it and if you are able to determine an impending failure, what do you do? Tear down a perfectly good running machine for inspection? or continue running it.

I worked in an engine machine shop for a spell and a huge rock crusher diesel engine was dropped off. Engine must've been 20ft long. They didn't mess with just installing new bearings and sending it back out. Everything was replaced. Crankshaft, piston's and rods, cams. As long as the block didn't have a hole in it, they re-used that part. It's entirely posibble that a routing oil analysis identified an issue before rod's started going throught the block. If that's the case, it's money well spent.

That is exactly true. A large gold mine around here does routine oil analysis to determine (1) when to change the oil - I know some of these machines hold 30+ gallons of oil and (2) if there impending internal problems they take it out of service to do a repair - as it is usually much cheaper to replace rod/main bearings before they fail and score the crank (or worse) then to let it continue.

My hunting buddy had a abnormal oil analysis come back in his truck (excessive coolant) although his coolant level was not dropping enough to notice. Turned out to be a oil-to-water cooler had developed a small internal leak. Left unchecked it would have damaged the rod/main bearings, the crank and who knows what else. He was almost out of warranty and he took the series of reports in, and they did a tear down, found the problem and fixed it.

I have not yet had a issue, my slightly elevated lead levels (which blackstone is not concerned about at this point) is the only abnormality that I have had in 12 years of running periodic analysis.

Another thing I have found is that it sure makes vehicles easier to sell when you show a potential buyer a history of the analysis done. I tend to do 1 a year per vehicle.

 

[markjenn]

I don't think there is any doubt that doing routine/regular oil analysis allows you to spot wear trends in your engine that potentially enhance reliability and/or allow preventative maintenance/repairs to be done before small problems become big ones. I think this is a given.

The more slippery question is whether oil analysis is cost effective on a consumer product like a motorcycle given the non-mission-critical nature of most of our riding and the relatively high cost of analysis compared to the low cost of the machine. $25 spent on preventative maintenance for a $250K bulldozer or a $1.5M airplane is a totally different proposition than the same spent on a $10K motorcycle. I've never seen anyone attempt to do a rigorous economic study of whether oil analysis truly "pays off" for a motorcycle. My gut says "probably not."

If I were to do oil analysis, I'd do it regularly. Doing it occasionally doesn't give you a very good picture of wear trends. I have done it in the past on piston airplanes I've owned, but again, there is a big safety angle on aircraft. It is always interesting and it can give you peace of mind. But burying your head in the sand also gives peace of mind if you choose not to worry about it.

- Mark

 

[Checkswrecks]

I don't think there is any doubt that doing routine/regular oil analysis allows you to spot wear trends in your engine that potentially enhance reliability and/or allow preventative maintenance/repairs to be done before small problems become big ones. I think this is a given.

The more slippery question is whether oil analysis is cost effective on a consumer product like a motorcycle given the non-mission-critical nature of most of our riding and the relatively high cost of analysis compared to the low cost of the machine. $25 spent on preventative maintenance for a $250K bulldozer or a $1.5M airplane is a totally different proposition than the same spent on a $10K motorcycle. I've never seen anyone attempt to do a rigorous economic study of whether oil analysis truly "pays off" for a motorcycle. My gut says "probably not."

If I were to do oil analysis, I'd do it regularly. Doing it occasionally doesn't give you a very good picture of wear trends. I have done it in the past on piston airplanes I've owned, but again, there is a big safety angle on aircraft. It is always interesting and it can give you peace of mind. But burying your head in the sand also gives peace of mind if you choose not to worry about it.

- Mark

::026::
It's normal in aviation and I've done it with many airplanes, but for the bike, just buying the $414 Yamaha Extended Service (YES) is much more cost effective.