Norden 901

Sierra1

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I have seen where KTM is selling the bikes with full electronics working then after a trial period they shut it all down . . . .
Keeping this post strictly factual. . . . people in CA that use Nest thermostats reported that their thermostats were raised (this last summer) without the consumer doing the raising. Apparently, Nests can be remotely operated/controlled.

I guess which is similar to certain cars being "hacked". Another benefit of having a total manual car without any web access.
 

Dirt_Dad

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I have seen where KTM is selling the bikes with full electronics working then after a trial period they shut it all down and if you want all the features you have to go back and pay for the software to get it all working again.
The 890 I have on order will be one of the first KTMs to do this "demo" method. Makes sense to me. Rather that having multiple versions, each with different features, and the one with the bells and whistles you want is only in stock 500 miles from home,...instead every unit everywhere is capable of being the highest level of trim.

If you don't have any interest in the added features, awesome, buy the entry-level for the lowest price available and enjoy the hell out of it. If you do want those features, awesome, but the same bike and pay for the features you do want and enjoy the hell out of it. How do you get better customizing than that?

For me, I already know what features I want on the 890. Demo mode is not really a factor.

I do know a SAS owner who does not have speed shifting. To me that is incomprehensible. He paid less and loves his bike. I paid more and could not be happier. Where's the downside?
 

Sierra1

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If that's what makes you happy. :) But, I've always felt that the reason BMW, KTM, and such, were more expensive was because of their features. Whether I was going to use them or not, they were there for the use. But now they still cost more, the same, and then you have to pay more for those features.

When Yamaha had two versions of the T-12, there was a price difference due to feature difference. Pay more, get more. But this new way is no price difference from last year, but no features either.
 
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Longdog Cymru

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I have seen where KTM is selling the bikes with full electronics working then after a trial period they shut it all down and if you want all the features you have to go back and pay for the software to get it all working again. I am just waiting for not only bikes but cars as well to sell you a vehicle and then charge you a monthly or annual subscription to keep it right and all the features working. I can see it coming. Tractor manufacturer's already say they own the software in the tractor you bought and are making some extreme expenses for farmers trying to keep them running. I hear Harley is looking into doing something similar. Corporate greed is rampant. Hope that doesn't happen but it is on the way.
That sounds like an urban myth to me, certainly there is nothing in UK to suggest this practice is used and it certainly doesn’t make any sense that a manufacturer should risk its reputation to do this.
 

Longdog Cymru

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Well I don’t think KTM or any other manufacturer sell you a bike with all options working then shut them down unless you pay! Yes, a lot or all of the electronic options are in there, (it’s cheaper to build it all in then activate things like quick-shifter, etc.), but they don’t sell you a bike with all options working then pull the plug after a few weeks unless you pay.
After reading DDs account, that is fine but I think cyclemike has the wrong end of the stick.
 

Sierra1

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I don't know. Computers and satellite services do that. And OnStar. Free for a while, and then it goes off unless you pay monthly. GM has been doing that forever.
 

cyclemike4

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Well I don’t think KTM or any other manufacturer sell you a bike with all options working then shut them down unless you pay! Yes, a lot or all of the electronic options are in there, (it’s cheaper to build it all in then activate things like quick-shifter, etc.), but they don’t sell you a bike with all options working then pull the plug after a few weeks unless you pay.
After reading DDs account, that is fine but I think cyclemike has the wrong end of the stick.
I may have miswrote my statement somewhat. Yes KTM is selling a bike with all the bells and whistles in tact and after a 1000 miles the bike looses all the bells and whistles unless you pay extra. But what I was getting at is every single thing in the world now is out for a monthly subscription of some kind it seems. I can see manufacturers selling a car or a bike or a tractor and saying you do not own the software and must pay a fee every little bit to keep all the bells and whistles working. It is possible and if they condition the consumer just as KTM is doing with this demo thing at some point people will accept a monthly payment for software. Or at the very least every couple years would require a software update that you would have to pay for. It is not a new thing. In the industrial world this has been going on for years. It just has not trickled down to the individual. Back to the KTM thing. For me anyway it would really rub me wrong that KTM would put hardware on the bike to do all the things they are supposed to do but then I would have to pay extra for the software to make it work. the hardware is the expense. It is an expense on every single bike but the software has been developed and cost basically nothing to put in every bike but they charge for it? That just seems wrong to me.
 

Dirt_Dad

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Will KTM be making a smaller version of the SAS ?
It's called the 890 Adventure. Other members here such as Donk and TNWalker have it or had it. Heck, Donk has had both the 1290 and the 890. He loves the 890 so much he kept it over his 1290. His positive talk of the 890 was ringing in my ears as I researched the 2023 Adventure R as my next dirt bike.

Well I don’t think KTM or any other manufacturer sell you a bike with all options working then shut them down unless you pay! Yes, a lot or all of the electronic options are in there, (it’s cheaper to build it all in then activate things like quick-shifter, etc.), but they don’t sell you a bike with all options working then pull the plug after a few weeks unless you pay.
After reading DDs account, that is fine but I think cyclemike has the wrong end of the stick.
From the KTM site.


If I were a first time KTM buyer I might be interested in the Demo mode. But as someone who purchased the full "Tech Package" on my last bike, I already know I want everything except Hill Hold. Buying the package was cheaper than buying each individually and leaving out the HH.

I may have miswrote my statement somewhat. Yes KTM is selling a bike with all the bells and whistles in tact and after a 1000 miles the bike looses all the bells and whistles unless you pay extra. But what I was getting at is every single thing in the world now is out for a monthly subscription of some kind it seems. I can see manufacturers selling a car or a bike or a tractor and saying you do not own the software and must pay a fee every little bit to keep all the bells and whistles working. It is possible and if they condition the consumer just as KTM is doing with this demo thing at some point people will accept a monthly payment for software. Or at the very least every couple years would require a software update that you would have to pay for. It is not a new thing. In the industrial world this has been going on for years. It just has not trickled down to the individual. Back to the KTM thing. For me anyway it would really rub me wrong that KTM would put hardware on the bike to do all the things they are supposed to do but then I would have to pay extra for the software to make it work. the hardware is the expense. It is an expense on every single bike but the software has been developed and cost basically nothing to put in every bike but they charge for it? That just seems wrong to me.
It is a one time purchase and not a subscription.

Everyone has their own perspective. Should people have to pay for technology they don't want or that they even consider undesirable, or could they pay less to have the basic bike they want?

In the end, these are software updates. There is a cost to develop software. I've made my living as a software developer for over 20 years, so I'm very aware of this factor. Quality software that works correctly requires a massive investment in both time and money. I find it impressive that KTM has the confidence to allow the bike to be competitively priced with lower featured bikes, and also provide the ability to compete with high-end, full feature bikes.

For me, I recognize the value of the software update to my riding satisfaction. I have zero hesitation, and no ill feelings about paying for the features I want. It's another reason I find KTM to be the #1 manufacture of high performance bikes that the average guy can afford.
 
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Donk

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KTM has always had an 'a la carte' option system. The base bikes are prewired or even have the parts installed and you just buy the ones you want then dealer turns them on. It's a great idea, pick and choose what suits your fancy. BMW tells you the base price is X but they don't import any base bikes the only bike you can buy has the "premium" package that is X plus $4000. You get hill hold whether you want it or not. Yamaha says here's the bike we make with the options we think are important to you take it or leave it. I think KTM's idea of letting you sample the full menu before you buy is brilliant and really helps the customer spend his money wisely. Throwing rocks at a manufacturer because they have a new idea and it's not "your" manufacturer's idea isn't really going to change anyone's mind about what bike they buy next. I would like to think unintentionally @cyclemike4 made one thing sound like another. As far as I'm concerned KTM builds a great product and they are doing a great job to insure customer satisfaction.

To answer fac191's question KTM does make a smaller version of the SAS it's called the 890 Adventure. A good bit smaller and a little bit quicker.
 

DamMechanic

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But what I was getting at is every single thing in the world now is out for a monthly subscription of some kind it seems. I can see manufacturers selling a car or a bike or a tractor and saying you do not own the software and must pay a fee every little bit to keep all the bells and whistles working.
Toyota just tried doing this with the remote start feature on their cars. After the first year it was going to cost $5 a month. They canceled the program just after a few weeks of customer outrage.
 

Donk

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Toyota just tried doing this with the remote start feature on their cars. After the first year it was going to cost $5 a month. They canceled the program just after a few weeks of customer outrage.
Again not the same thing. That is a monthly fee. KTM sells you the features you want after letting you try all the features for a period of time. You only pay for the options you want.
 

Dirt_Dad

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To answer fac191's question KTM does make a smaller version of the SAS it's called the 890 Adventure. A good bit smaller and a little bit quicker.
A little quicker??!!! Holy Crap! Very hard to imagine, but doesn't help with the anticipation I'm already feeling about the 890.
 
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HeliMark

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I may have miswrote my statement somewhat. Yes KTM is selling a bike with all the bells and whistles in tact and after a 1000 miles the bike looses all the bells and whistles unless you pay extra. But what I was getting at is every single thing in the world now is out for a monthly subscription of some kind it seems. I can see manufacturers selling a car or a bike or a tractor and saying you do not own the software and must pay a fee every little bit to keep all the bells and whistles working. It is possible and if they condition the consumer just as KTM is doing with this demo thing at some point people will accept a monthly payment for software. Or at the very least every couple years would require a software update that you would have to pay for. It is not a new thing. In the industrial world this has been going on for years. It just has not trickled down to the individual. Back to the KTM thing. For me anyway it would really rub me wrong that KTM would put hardware on the bike to do all the things they are supposed to do but then I would have to pay extra for the software to make it work. the hardware is the expense. It is an expense on every single bike but the software has been developed and cost basically nothing to put in every bike but they charge for it? That just seems wrong to me.
Here is an article on the subscriptions for vehicles:
 

Sierra1

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. . . .
This is horse shit! You're paying for the feature(s) whether you use it or not. The initial price is the same whether you plan to use the feature(s) or not. All they've done is find a way to double-f**k the customer. It's great for the manufacturers. One assembly line for one trim level. Every GM model will BE an LTZ but not really an LTZ unless you spend more money. And more internet connectivity? So when "big brother" decides you don't get to drive on certain days . . . . click . . . . your car won't start.

The US is going to start looking like Cuba. 40+ year old cars on the road because new cars are out of reach.
 

DamMechanic

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Again not the same thing. That is a monthly fee. KTM sells you the features you want after letting you try all the features for a period of time. You only pay for the options you want.
That is correct it’s not the same thing as KTM is currently promoting but if one of the largest vehicle manufacturers is trying monthly fees it will probably trickle down to other manufacturers at some point.
 

thughes317

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Go buy a new Toyota: OEM remote start works for 90 days and then ceases unless you pay the $8/mo subscription fee. Been this way for a few years now...and seems to be a direction everything is heading.
 
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