My very 1st Bike.

[PhilokaRider]

Hi all

I need some sound advice. I am a 38yr old Father of 1, I am a pretty level headed guy who is getting into motorcycles. I am not a speed freak or an adrenaline junkie by any stretch of the imagination. I am getting into this mainly for the freedom of getting on two wheels and hitting the back roads. So I have been looking around for a 1st bike. Then I was hit left right and center by "get a small stater bike" and I must say I fell for it and seriously considered getting a small 250cc that I would learn on then when I can ride I can get the bike I want. I don't think I like this approach, and I think I have some valid reasons.

1. Buying and selling is not an option I have. I don't want to buy a vehicle that will severely depreciate the minute i walk out with it. So unless I am not doing proper research I don't think its that easy to buy a small bike and sell it a few months later and not lose money. I know riding is going to be a money pit but i would like to avoid as much unnecessary.
2. My size matters, I am 1.86m tall and pretty fit (light weight lifting 5 days a week). I don't think crouching on a small bike is going to be really educational. I think with a small bike I will pickup bad habits and wont learn to respect the bike, because speed is not much of an appeal I don't think i gain much from learning on a small bike.
3. Riding School. I plan on investing on riding courses. I will be taking a few riding courses that provide you with a bike and plan on getting a few hours riding that way as opposed to buying a small bike and not learning from a professional trainer.

So the 1st bike I fell inlove with was a Super Tenere 1200. Then I sort of accepted that i will only ride that years from now, but I have been geeking out on research to see if I really have to start small, then I realized the bike that every internet bike "guru" calls a good starter bike NC750x is only 20 or so KGs lighter than a super T. what I would like to know is obviously there a few holes in my logic, never ridden before and on top of that never having ridden a bike as big as the super T. I think between riding classes and practice and staying out of dangerous situations and being humble in my approach I really think my 1st bike can be a a 2011 Super T.

 

[thughes317]

Get the S10!

 

[whisperquiet]

Do not buy the S10 as a first bike……buy a 300-650cc dual sport as they are lighter and much more forgiving. Ride it a year or two and then look for a larger motorcycle.

 

[Sierra1]

Hey, below is your first post. @EricV and I gave you our thoughts. Don't know about him, but my recommendation still stands. But there's no rush to buy. Get the training course under your belt. That might provide you some insight as to what kind of bike you want or need. Nothing against the Honda, but I don't know what would make it a better choice than the T-12.




I am Pk, I am a fairly new rider looking to get my 1st Super Tenere. I have 2 options i need to make a decision on, pretty much the same bike only difference is mileage and extras and obviously the price. Both bikes look clean and in good nick. The bike 2 with less mileage on the other side of the country though, if I buy it I would have to do it without seeing it and go on pics and conversation with seller, then there would be the shipping cost of getting it here. The bike 1 with more mileage I will be able to view and ride home if i buy it, less than 100km away.

Bike	Mileage	extras	Price
Bike 1. 2011 Yamaha XT 1200 Z Super Tenere	75000km	Top Box only Touring screen	R 63 900
Bike 2. 2011 Yamaha XT 1200 Z Super Tenere	17075km	Yamaha OEM Pannier (incl Top Box)	R 94 900

I would like to get some advice from more seasoned Super Tenere owners, i think the risk of not being able to view bike 2 together with the shipping cost will have a cost implications that might take the bike over 100K. My question is is the 57 925km difference worth it? or should i just try get the bike closer to me and not worry too much about the mileage.

 

[Scott F]

You already know your answer - you want the Super Tenere - but you needed some confirmation about your choice so you asked folks here on this forum; I probably did the same thing when I purchased my first-ever bike. About me for context: I powerlifted my entire life and spent college as a Div 1 athlete throwing the discus and hammer, then a career as an artillery officer in the Corps. I am physically able to ride any motorcycle. My first-ever bike was a 2017 Suzuki V-Strom 650 purchased new right after I retired from the Marine Corps. It is a great bike but I lived in Florida where the sugar sand intimidated me too much for off-roading because I have ZERO experience with that. It was traded in less than a year with only 5400 miles on it for my second bike, a 2018 HD Ultra again bought new off of a showroom floor. I still have that bike but put over 54k miles on it but decided to buy an S10 for other reasons. It was nearly perfect for what I wanted in a bike and my commute in Tampa.

My advice from a couple short years of riding is simply to buy the bike you want, learn to ride it, take your safety seriously, wear the gear that is legal and makes you and your family feel safe about you riding and get out there and put your knees in the breeze. I regret not buying a motorcycle sooner in my life.

Smaller bikes have a purpose and you can learn a ton on them but the fundamentals are the same from bike to bike so long as you respect them. You can get in loads of 'trouble' on just about any bike that runs. Conversely you can ride any sized bike safely, but chances are it will be less taxing on a smaller bike.

The Super Tenere is a great bike, starter or otherwise, but don't confuse the size of a bike with how much fun and capable smaller bikes are to operate especially if your stated goal is to cruise around on some South African back roads.

 

[sheikyerbooty]

What about a used xt660z? I believe they sold well in SA? The superten is a big old bike and would be quite intimidating for a newby, especially on gravel? I'm with @whisperquiet here.

 

[bimota]

warm welcome

 

[PhilokaRider]

Wow, this is an amazing community the response time is amazing. @Scott F great response, thank you. @sheikyerbooty and @whisperquiet I fully understand what you are saying about the intimidation factor. My thing is, that very intimidation factor I think is what I need to learn the right way and to start with foundational safety habits informing how I learn to ride. My issue is that the absence of intimidation will overtime turn into ill-informed over confidence, and the thing I strongly suspect will happen with a forgiving bike is that that leeway it will afford me will cultivate some bad riding habits. There is a good deal on a Honda NC750x DCT in my area, I flat-out refused it because I feel if learn to ride on a DCT I will miss out on learning how to ride proper bikes, in the future when I am much older and have owned a few bikes, I might consider a DCT as a commuter, with that said there is no denying the fact that riding it would be much easier and much more forgiving, but I don't think that level of ease is something I want as an entry point into riding motorcycles. I want fear and intimidation so it can cultivate an appetite of good habits and safety as a serious consideration. The down side is going to be fewer opportunities to ride my bike except in parking lots with cones, more riding in courses intended to teach safety and correct riding and of course coming home to a S10 parked in my garage that I only get to ride around my complex for a few months. I think that is an acceptable downside. This line of thought was confirmed when I cam across content by Jocelin Snow and watching her ride with ease a bike she dangles from, I mean this confirms size is not an issue, if you learn how to control a motorcycle PERIOD. so I intend to learn how to ride proper before i get on the road, learn controls learn the mechanics of controlling a powerful bike, learn with respect and safety and learn right. Plus its hard to come by a good well taken care off S10 around my part of the world, so i really want to seize the ones that are available, very good gen 1s and later upgrade to newer more expensive newer models.

 

[thughes317]

So, you believe a woman when she says "size doesn't matter"? (just kidding, Jocelin is an amazing talent)

If you're into the you tube thing, take a look at this young lady's channel. I've followed her journey from being a complete noob, afraid to leave the confines of a parking lot, to taking cross country trips on full dress HD's. She's an inspiration for anybody entering the two wheel world, dispelling all the common myths (especially the "that bike is too big for you" ones) and showing just how far determination, education, and practice can take you.

https://www.youtube.com/@DoodleOnAMotorcycle

Keep us posted on your journey....

 

[Cycledude]

I say Go for it ! Plenty of folks have started their riding careers on big motorcycles and have done very well. Yes The Super Tenere is tall and top heavy but as long as you are strong enough to pick it up by yourself you should be ok. The training classes are very helpful, unfortunately when I started riding they didn’t have those classes but I managed to survive without doing any serious damage.

 

[EricV]

Apologies in advance for the long post below.

If you get the S10, buy some crash bars for it. It's a top heavy bike and when it starts to go over, you need to let it go, not try to save it and hurt yourself. The bars will mean a few scratches on the bars and little or no other damage. Worth the investment. All bars fit all years of Super Teneres'. I used to import and sell Rumbux crash bar systems in the US. They are made in the RSA and very good quality. If that's outside the budget, get what you can afford, anything is better than nothing.

Many first time riders end up nicknaming their 1st bikes "Scratchy". Mostly from no or low speed drops. A little sand under foot at a stop that you didn't notice, backing up in the garage and slip, a slow speed turn and too much front brake, it all happens. Rarely the case with 2nd bikes.

Part of learning to ride is control. Learning and understanding how to control the bike and make it go where you want at both low parking lot speeds, and at higher speeds. The techniques for these are different, but complementary.

Another part of learning to ride is about you. Learning to LOOK. Look where you want to go. Look to identify hazards, (ground conditions, debris, weather, RR tracks or road damage, uneven pavement, etc.) Look to identify Hazards, (Pedestrians, animals, parked cars at the side of the road with people inside them, on-coming road users that may turn across your path, other road users at intersections, etc.)

Situational awareness is a factor as well. Learning to take in everything around you at once and remain aware of what is a hazard and what is not, where are your escape paths if X car does a bad thing, what's behind you and are they a hazard if you brake hard w/o warning?

It takes time and practice, practice, practice to gain these skills. Anyone that rides is still learning and practicing. Every single ride I take has moments where I can die if I don't make the correct choices and have the correct reactions to the situations I encounter. After 40 years and over 500k miles, I manage to survive w/o much drama. It's no big deal that I was cut off, a car changed lanes into my space, something fell off the heavy truck in front of me, etc. It's no big deal because I noticed them before it happened and automatically prepared for it, backed off, slowed down, was ready to make an evasive maneuver, etc.

No drama, because I already knew they were going to do something dumb before they did. The driver with the phone to his ear = hazard. The driver with their sun visor down, and driving away from the sun = hazard. The driver at the intersection focused only on the signal, not on traffic = hazard. The truck with loose/unsecured junk in the bed = hazard (one bump in the road and something might fall off) The car full of kids = hazard (they are animated and talking, not paying attention) The truck coming up to the stop behind me = hazard (watch the mirror to see if they are slowing down enough, have an exit plan already so you're angled to escape if need be)

Good habits take time to develop. And practice to maintain. And every now and then it's good to take another riding safety course so an instructor can watch you and spot any bad habits you have developed that you are unaware of, and reinforce the good habits that maybe you're getting a little lazy with.

A little healthy awareness of what can go wrong is good. Fear and intimidation about riding is not. You don't need a 250 to start on, but something in the 500-650 range and used so you're not worried about that first scratch or drop is a good starter bike for an adult. No, I'm not saying you can't start with a 1200cc Super Ten. But you need to have some respect for how quickly things can go wrong too.

If you only take one bit of advice from all our posts, take this to heart: Ride your own ride. Do not be tempted to follow a better rider at their pace if you're uncomfortable with that. Do not be tempted to go someplace or take a road you have doubts about just because someone else tells you it's fine. Don't pull out with other bikes, pull out when you see conditions are safe to do so. Your safety is your responsibility, no one else's. To stay safe you have to see all the other road users that don't see you. You have to assume they don't see you, even if they look right at you, that doesn't mean they won't still do something that can harm you. Assume the worst and be happy if they don't do something that puts you at risk.

 

[PhilokaRider]

So, you believe a woman when she says "size doesn't matter"? (just kidding, Jocelin is an amazing talent)

If you're into the you tube thing, take a look at this young lady's channel. I've followed her journey from being a complete noob, afraid to leave the confines of a parking lot, to taking cross country trips on full dress HD's. She's an inspiration for anybody entering the two wheel world, dispelling all the common myths (especially the "that bike is too big for you" ones) and showing just how far determination, education, and practice can take you.

https://www.youtube.com/@DoodleOnAMotorcycle

Keep us posted on your journey....

Tell you what, I never trust a lady saying size doesn't matter and all she rides is behemoths.

As someone who didn't grow up with access to motorcycles and never having ridden from a young age the more I listen to SENSIBLE folks who have been riding for long, you realize that like everything in life if you are foolish and careless it will kill you, motorcyles are no more dangerous than an unchecked appetite for eating donuts, its just a matter of how quickly you wanna die. If you are foolish and you make donuts the cornerstone of your diet you will die a donut induced death. Outside the motorcycle community there is this MISCONCEPTION that motorcycles are death traps. I am slowly realizing that idiots are everywhere and they usually ruin things for everyone. so idiots on two wheels end up creating a bad impression about everyone on two wheel, dig a little deeper and you realize that that was just an idiot who didn't know what they were doing. So I want to put those who are uneasy about this approach at ease, I am not an idiot who wants to get on an overpowered bike to look cool and not know what I am doing, otherwise I would buy an overpowered and overoriced GS with keyless start and take it into the dessert with no prior training.......bazinga.

 

[PhilokaRider]

Apologies in advance for the long post below.

If you get the S10, buy some crash bars for it. It's a top heavy bike and when it starts to go over, you need to let it go, not try to save it and hurt yourself. The bars will mean a few scratches on the bars and little or no other damage. Worth the investment. All bars fit all years of Super Teneres'. I used to import and sell Rumbux crash bar systems in the US. They are made in the RSA and very good quality. If that's outside the budget, get what you can afford, anything is better than nothing.

Many first time riders end up nicknaming their 1st bikes "Scratchy". Mostly from no or low speed drops. A little sand under foot at a stop that you didn't notice, backing up in the garage and slip, a slow speed turn and too much front brake, it all happens. Rarely the case with 2nd bikes.

Part of learning to ride is control. Learning and understanding how to control the bike and make it go where you want at both low parking lot speeds, and at higher speeds. The techniques for these are different, but complementary.

Another part of learning to ride is about you. Learning to LOOK. Look where you want to go. Look to identify hazards, (ground conditions, debris, weather, RR tracks or road damage, uneven pavement, etc.) Look to identify Hazards, (Pedestrians, animals, parked cars at the side of the road with people inside them, on-coming road users that may turn across your path, other road users at intersections, etc.)

Situational awareness is a factor as well. Learning to take in everything around you at once and remain aware of what is a hazard and what is not, where are your escape paths if X car does a bad thing, what's behind you and are they a hazard if you brake hard w/o warning?

It takes time and practice, practice, practice to gain these skills. Anyone that rides is still learning and practicing. Every single ride I take has moments where I can die if I don't make the correct choices and have the correct reactions to the situations I encounter. After 40 years and over 500k miles, I manage to survive w/o much drama. It's no big deal that I was cut off, a car changed lanes into my space, something fell off the heavy truck in front of me, etc. It's no big deal because I noticed them before it happened and automatically prepared for it, backed off, slowed down, was ready to make an evasive maneuver, etc.

No drama, because I already knew they were going to do something dumb before they did. The driver with the phone to his ear = hazard. The driver with their sun visor down, and driving away from the sun = hazard. The driver at the intersection focused only on the signal, not on traffic = hazard. The truck with loose/unsecured junk in the bed = hazard (one bump in the road and something might fall off) The car full of kids = hazard (they are animated and talking, not paying attention) The truck coming up to the stop behind me = hazard (watch the mirror to see if they are slowing down enough, have an exit plan already so you're angled to escape if need be)

Good habits take time to develop. And practice to maintain. And every now and then it's good to take another riding safety course so an instructor can watch you and spot any bad habits you have developed that you are unaware of, and reinforce the good habits that maybe you're getting a little lazy with.

A little healthy awareness of what can go wrong is good. Fear and intimidation about riding is not. You don't need a 250 to start on, but something in the 500-650 range and used so you're not worried about that first scratch or drop is a good starter bike for an adult. No, I'm not saying you can't start with a 1200cc Super Ten. But you need to have some respect for how quickly things can go wrong too.

If you only take one bit of advice from all our posts, take this to heart: Ride your own ride. Do not be tempted to follow a better rider at their pace if you're uncomfortable with that. Do not be tempted to go someplace or take a road you have doubts about just because someone else tells you it's fine. Don't pull out with other bikes, pull out when you see conditions are safe to do so. Your safety is your responsibility, no one else's. To stay safe you have to see all the other road users that don't see you. You have to assume they don't see you, even if they look right at you, that doesn't mean they won't still do something that can harm you. Assume the worst and be happy if they don't do something that puts you at risk.

@EricV Thank you. You have summed it up perfectly, 40yrs of riding and there is learning that is still happening, i can believe that. I have just checked the Rumbux crash bars they not that bad pricewise, I will certainly invest in them. I fortunately stay in a pretty quite and not busy part of Centurion in South Africa, this will allow me to gradually go out into a very quite residential area (gated community) with little to no traffic. on certain weekends I plan on hiring a trailer and driving to an old mall with a unused parking lot and spend some hours practicing control and slow maneuvers. I don't plan on getting on the road before I at least get smooth with the controls. long learning curve but i feel it will keep me riding safer for longer. What do you guys think of the theory shared by the many retired motorcycle police, e,g Ride like a pro Joe Palladino. I know they do their drills on cruisers but the theory of their training is so educational and informative.

 

[Wymbly1971]

I can't say I know what it's like to be in your shoes, what you're capable of, etc. I've been riding motorcycles since I was 5....I'm now 53. I've ridden pretty much every size, shape of motorcycle.

I remember my first ride on my first street bike...a Honda 450. I had a ton of experience with motorcycle controls, operation in bad conditions and could ride a bike blindfolded in my sleep, but nothing prepared me for the weight, massiveness, rush of brute power and speed that even that 450 delivered.

Fast forward 37 years. My first ride on my S10. It was an animal...heavy, powerful, touchy, intimidating. By far enough to get into trouble quickly for the unprepared. I'm still highly respectful of the beast....and I've clocked 28,000 miles on it on-road and off in less than 1 year.

My point is that starting with a lesser bike, maybe a KLR 650, a DR 650, a Honda 500 will teach you a LOT and the fun factor will stay high for quite awhile. It's not that you're unskilled or unintelligent, but even the best of us can PANIC. Lot's of first timers whiskey throttle, forget to pull in the clutch and do their first wheelies into buildings, cars, etc. I've seen it a few times. People fight speed wobbles....a very natural reaction that's wrong and can get you killed.

You used the Jocelyn Snow example. Do you really think little miss 5'-2" started on a GS1250? I HIGHLY doubt it and would add that it would've been virtually impossible for her to do so. Even the tricks she makes look "so easy" are the result of a LOT of practice. Never judge a YouTube rider based on their size or innocence or their ability to make things look easy. Watching YouTube is not the same as DOING.

My advice. Spend time on a small bike for a bit...even a small dirt bike. They're cheap, you'll likely get your money back when you sell and you'll get the basics down pat. Make it so you can operate a bike safely without having to think about what you're doing. That will get you 50% prepared for a big powerful bike. The last 50% is up to you and a lifelong learning experience. I'm not trying to insult or discourage you...I'm trying to help make motorcycling a safe, fun and passionate thing for you.

 

[PhilokaRider]

Well well, new developments. It appears things are working in my favor. One of the reasons for my eagerness to jump to the S10 with immediately is because there is one i have been keeping my eye on for a few months. it was Priced at R67 900 then got slashed to R 63 900. last week it disappeared and I was convinced it was sold. it just came back with another price slash to R 59 900. I really want this bike it already has the crash bars and a few other accessories. I think I am going to Phil Ivey the situation and hold a bit longer because I think they are struggling to sell it. in the meantime I will listen to the decades of experience and look for a small learner bike. I saw a pretty cheap 2004 F650 Dakar with low mileage that looks in good condition try get that cash (here we go PB&J diet). In a month or two I hope that price will drop one more time as the new stock BMWs have come into the country and a few people will be letting go of their "old bikes" to get on the new GS'. Well I hope this works and I get that S10 even cheaper.



here we go.........

 

[EricV]

What do you guys think of the theory shared by the many retired motorcycle police, e,g Ride like a pro Joe Palladino. I know they do their drills on cruisers but the theory of their training is so educational and informative.

As to the online versions, there are a lot of good things that can be watched, then put into parking lot practice to get better understandings of how it works/feels. Nothing is as good as personal instruction, even with a group class. Keep in mind that some of the instruction will suit riders farther up the skill tree and doing more extreme low speed maneuvers.

I do parking lot drills most every ride when I see an opportunity. Especially when I test ride a bike. Usually I ride away from the dealership and find a nice empty car park to practice in. It tells me a great deal on how the bike compares to the one I'm currently riding and most familiar with. Both good and bad traits can quickly be noticed/identified.

There are basic epiphanies in learning to ride. Look where you want to go, being a primary one. Target fixation is a huge factor in crashes. People simply look at the object they want to avoid, instead of looking at the path around it, and run strait into the object. Be that a tree, the outer bank of a turn, a pothole, etc.

Another is counter steering. Really understanding it is important. There is a lot of misunderstanding about it, and some horrible 'expert' instructions that describe it poorly. Over ~15 kph/10 mph you don't turn the handlebars to steer, you counter steer. In other worlds, press left to go left, press right to go right. You're pressing forward though, not down on the bars. The link does a decent job of explaining it.

After those you start to get into weight shifting, at both slow and faster speeds. Some will instruct counter weighting to turn at parking lot speeds. This is serious technique to learn and can be used in dramatic ways. But in normal riding at speed, weight shifting is a different animal. At it's extreme end is pros on the race circuit hanging off and dragging knees and elbows. You're not going to need to do that level on the street.

However, learning to weight the outside peg when cornering works in concert with other techniques. Pressing the outside footpeg as you shift your shoulder to the inside of the turn stands the bike slightly more upright and works in concert with your counter steering press on the bars. These are not extreme moves. Done correctly, instead of looking through the center of the windscreen as you go through a corner, you will be looking through the left side of the screen going around a left turn and through the right side of the screen during a right turn. It's a dance of movement and weight shifting. A good friend, and far better rider than I, once told me that if you're not already at 80% of your comfort level in a turn, actually shifting your butt to the inside of the corner and 'hanging off' makes little difference. You see people doing this on the the street at reasonable speeds just because they think it looks cool. Like standing up on a flat, strait gravel road on your ADV bike. There isn't a reason to do that under those conditions. On a trail, going up or down hill in more challenging terrain, standing up is an important part of controlling the bike. That's another topic, off pavement techniques.

There are more, but those are the first three things that when you get them right, will be eye opening and improve your confidence and riding skill set.

 

[Wenisgoodenuf]

Greetings from Canada

 

[Strummer]

Welcome from Italy.
I would not worry too much about the weight eventhough I really think it is very heavy at least fot my body frame...
I am shorter than you , 176 cm and less than 70kg..
Once you get to know her you will find it very nimble, there are days I probably do easily more than 50- 60 hairpins up hill and down hill, hell I go seeking the more twisted roads around here...
After 4 years of ownership I still don't take it offroad because I am not strong enough for certain roads but on tarmac I have a lot of fun....
You seem a wise man so my theory is if you respect the bike and don't go full throttle size should not be a real issue.
I may be the skinniest one on the forum but that won't put me off driving this heavy thing.
Obviously this is just me.
Good luck and enjoy any bike you will end up with!

 

[barkingllizard]

a simple hello, PhilokaRider...

 

[Eville Rich]

I'll briefly share my experience. I started riding in 2015. No reason other than that I felt the calling. At the tender age of 44. It didn't hurt that my wife was also into it. We did the safety class. It was tremendously beneficial.

Our first bikes were dual sport 250s. I got a WR250R. I ran it for a year, including commuting and recreation. Did about 3500 miles on it in that year. I became very comfortable on it and learned many things in the process (and I continue to learn). I emphasized safety gear vs other mods in that year. I still have and use this bike, but it's shifted to more off-road recreation with various mods.

In 2016 I bought a new S10. I'd determined that my initial calling wasn't waning and wanted to do more types of riding. The S10 really fit the bill and it's been good to me. It's now my commuting/touring bike that I can handle gentle off-road or at least forest roads, etc. I have zero interest picking up the S10 from soft sand or other difficult off-road situations. The WR250R fits that for me.

Had I started with the S10, I'm not sure if I'd have really been comfortable as a brand-new rider. At the time, there weren't a lot of 650ish options in a dual-sport that I was interested in. Today, I might have started with T700, but that wasn't available. I knew I wanted to do off-road and smaller and lighter WR250R really fit the bill.

I'm lucky in that I can keep two motorbikes for different purposes. I've kept them for the long-term and it's been great. Consider what you want out of a motorcycle. I'm not saying don't get a S10, but consider smaller bikes, like the T700, which offers a flexible platform for multiple uses. I'm glad I went down the path I did. Might or might not be right for you.

Eville Rich
2016 S10