My bizarre & seemingly unsolvable cruise control issues...hoping for new ideas.

mebgardner

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I'll be back later with relay "in use" wattage.
Relay is:

1.1 to 1.5 Watts, rated power consumption at operation.

I would have no trepidation at putting my fingers or hand on a 1.5 W light bulb, for burn heat risk.

If there is evidence of brittle plastic on the relay's housing, it's for a different reason than relay being "on" all the time.
 

sigeye

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For what it is worth, I should elaborate on my experience in replacing the brake light relay.

My prior post explained that I was experiencing relay chatter from it and it was also certainly keeping the brake light 'on' for several seconds after I released (occasionally). After I replaced it with new OEM, I have not experienced a recurrence of the issue or symptoms relative to the relay again. That was about 3-4k miles ago too. Additionally, if memory serves me right, the OEM relay part number was superseded by a new Yamaha part number. I remember when I ordered it that the parts manager and I both figured that this could indicate an issue with the original. May just be the case given that I've not had an issue since.

As the OP for this thread, and still having the cruise control issues....I have another update.

The dealer confirmed today that Yamaha is going to send a factory rep to physically hook up my bike to their diagnostic tool before they proceed with replacing any additional parts (makes sense). I wish it had not taken so long to get an update, but at least it is movement again.

I also said heck with it today, and ordered the following parts myself so that I can further continue the path toward hopeful resolution:
1. OEM clutch switch. Interesting Note: This switch part number has now also been superseded. Could this be good news and indicate a possible fix for the original #? Who knows, but I will remain positive.
2. OEM front wheel sensor & OEM front wheel sensor rotor + 5 replacement screws
3. OEM rear wheel sensor & OEM rear wheel sensor rotor + 5 replacement screws

I know it may seem foolish to order the above parts, but I'm ready to get the show on the road...even it if means I'm out some cash. I'll keep you guys updated as I go through the parts. I'm going to start with the clutch switch, install and test ride and then go from there.

I found myself looking at the new 2018 GS Adventure with the new TFT display yesterday and I felt temptation for a bike that would resolve my immediate issues. However, a good night's sleep quickly restored my devotion to my Super Tenere and I decided spending $280 on parts for a bike I love was a way better path than spending $27kish ::022::
 

gv550

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Today my front brake side cruise cancel and brake light switch assembly was replaced. The stored code was again cleared and I rode for 200 kms with the cruise switch on all the time. The amber light stayed on solid and the cruise set every time I pressed the button. 200 kms isn't enough to declare the problem fixed, more riding this weekend should tell the story.
I did pull the side cover and plugged in my analog VOM to check both switches, zero resistance and a nice clean off/on/off for both switches while moving the brake lever fast and slow. Clearly an improvement over the old switch, that had 9 ohms resistance when closed and bounced when switching on and off.
I didn't think to record the markings on my old switch, but the new one has 334 and 2 cast into the plastic housing, and the numbers 1 42 04 inked below the cast numbers. Maybe it's a date code.
Many thanks to Crew Chief, Mebgardner and others for your help, and to Yamaha for looking after this after my warranty expired.
I will report back later, hopefully 1000 kms trouble free!
 

mebgardner

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sigeye said:
For what it is worth, I should elaborate on my experience in replacing the brake light relay.

My prior post explained that I was experiencing relay chatter from it and it was also certainly keeping the brake light 'on' for several seconds after I released (occasionally). After I replaced it with new OEM, I have not experienced a recurrence of the issue or symptoms relative to the relay again. That was about 3-4k miles ago too. Additionally, if memory serves me right, the OEM relay part number was superseded by a new Yamaha part number. I remember when I ordered it that the parts manager and I both figured that this could indicate an issue with the original. May just be the case given that I've not had an issue since.

As the OP for this thread, and still having the cruise control issues....I have another update.

The dealer confirmed today that Yamaha is going to send a factory rep to physically hook up my bike to their diagnostic tool before they proceed with replacing any additional parts (makes sense). I wish it had not taken so long to get an update, but at least it is movement again.

I also said heck with it today, and ordered the following parts myself so that I can further continue the path toward hopeful resolution:
1. OEM clutch switch. Interesting Note: This switch part number has now also been superseded. Could this be good news and indicate a possible fix for the original #? Who knows, but I will remain positive.
2. OEM front wheel sensor & OEM front wheel sensor rotor + 5 replacement screws
3. OEM rear wheel sensor & OEM rear wheel sensor rotor + 5 replacement screws

I know it may seem foolish to order the above parts, but I'm ready to get the show on the road...even it if means I'm out some cash. I'll keep you guys updated as I go through the parts. I'm going to start with the clutch switch, install and test ride and then go from there.

I found myself looking at the new 2018 GS Adventure with the new TFT display yesterday and I felt temptation for a bike that would resolve my immediate issues. However, a good night's sleep quickly restored my devotion to my Super Tenere and I decided spending $280 on parts for a bike I love was a way better path than spending $27kish ::022::
Invest in a cheap VOM, and test both sides of the handlebar switch assemblies. Or, have the factory tech do it for you. My .02: Ask him to start with those, and get all 4 tested (2 ea. per lever / side). FWIW.

"1. OEM clutch switch. Interesting Note: This switch part number has now also been superseded. Could this be good news and indicate a possible fix for the original #? Who knows, but I will remain positive."

Remember, we have found electrical linkage between the BLC circuit, and the CCC circuits. It might not be the clutch switch assembly that need replacing. (Thank You, CrewChief!)
 

sigeye

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Re: My bizarre & seemingly unsolvable cruise control issues...hoping for new ideas.



mebgardner said:
Remember, we have found electrical linkage between the BLC circuit, and the CCC circuits. It might not be the clutch switch assembly that need replacing. (Thank You, CrewChief!)
With me already having replaced the front brake switch twice, and the rear brake switch once (for the cc issues) - I'm not sure I follow. Can you please clarify?

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Squibb

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Sorry sigeye, hopefully you can excuse me getting a bit lost as to progress with your bike, given all the other traffic on this thread. I think the issues that have been discussed by others had already been addressed on your bike, save maybe for that relay & maybe any switch 'bounce', so I was trying to think what else could it be.

I think I am right in saying Yamaha have insisted that the ABS system isn't involved in your case, but I don't think anything was actually tested, just a check for codes.
It might be worth checking the sensors, where the resistance rises as they begin to fail, often before any problems with the braking system actually emerge - I am told the resistance should read about 1.1k ohms, but you may want to check with your Yamaha contacts. The wiring for each sensor needs checking as it can get damaged during a tyre change - was this checked during the loom swop I wonder? Feedback from the sensors can be scoped, but I have no idea what allowance Yamaha make for wheel rotational difference front to rear, given the interconnection with TCS, which seems to work Ok I believe.
 

mebgardner

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Re: My bizarre & seemingly unsolvable cruise control issues...hoping for new ideas.

sigeye said:
With me already having replaced the front brake switch twice, and the rear brake switch once (for the cc issues) - I'm not sure I follow. Can you please clarify?

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I'd lost that detail, that those things got done already. Sorry...

Since you did not mention the clutch switch assembly, I guess I'll put in another "plug" for checking that. :D
 

sigeye

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Re: My bizarre & seemingly unsolvable cruise control issues...hoping for new ideas.

mebgardner said:
I'd lost that detail, that those things got done already. Sorry...

Since you did not mention the clutch switch assembly, I guess I'll put in another "plug" for checking that. :D
Haha, well I'll be replacing it next week with the new part number... So I'm hoping for something positive.

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gv550

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I've added another 700 kms of riding and my cruise is working perfectly. Replacing the front brake switch assembly appears to have solved the problem on my bike. Sigeye has already replaced this part without success so discussing my bike is a distraction to this thread, so I've continued my discussion on the 'Flashing cruise light' thread. I hope a resolution is found here too. :)
 

myzter.red

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Re: My bizarre & seemingly unsolvable cruise control issues...hoping for new ideas.

Me and my other friend riding 2014 having Cruise Control Issue as well. No fault code etc. Able to turn on the cruise control but not able to set it.

He discovered that one of the switch for CC snapped which located at the throttlebody.

He solder both end of the wire. Problem fixed.

Thanks to him, now my CC is back in business. Lolx.
 

mebgardner

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myzter.red said:
Me and my other friend riding 2014 having Cruise Control Issue as well. No fault code etc. Able to turn on the cruise control but not able to set it.

He discovered that one of the switch for CC snapped which located at the throttlebody.

He solder both end of the wire. Problem fixed.

Thanks to him, now my CC is back in business. Lolx.
This reads like the "Less Than Zero Throttle" CC disconnect switch, is now defeated.

That is, rolling off throttle to "Past Fully Closed", which would normally disengage CC, will no longer perform the CC disconnect.

You should ask yourself: Are you OK with that (lack of) function?

Personally, I would want it, but that's me.

I would also be asking myself: Why did the wiring break there? Is there something incorrectly routed from a previous service?

You might be better off replacing that wiring, and if needed, reroute it upon installing new wiring.

Thanks for the information, that was kind of you to post up!
 

scott123007

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mebgardner said:
This reads like the "Less Than Zero Throttle" CC disconnect switch, is now defeated.

That is, rolling off throttle to "Past Fully Closed", which would normally disengage CC, will no longer perform the CC disconnect.

You should ask yourself: Are you OK with that (lack of) function?

Personally, I would want it, but that's me.
Just curious why you find that option important. To my knowledge, a motorcycle is the only motor vehicle that has that function.
 

scott123007

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Also, while you guys are digging, there is another way to turn off the cruise control that has not been discussed. In other words, not only is the throttle, front brake, rear brake, clutch, ignition switch, or the cruise control button itself able to disengage cruise, so will changing what gear you are in, (without the use of the clutch, of course).
 

sigeye

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Re: My bizarre & seemingly unsolvable cruise control issues...hoping for new ideas.

scott123007 said:
Also, while you guys are digging, there is another way to turn off the cruise control that has not been discussed. In other words, not only is the throttle, front brake, rear brake, clutch, ignition switch, or the cruise control button itself able to disengage cruise, so will changing what gear you are in, (without the use of the clutch, of course).
Good point and could be a variable in my case. I will have to dig into the service manual later to see if I can connect the dots on how to troubleshoot it. I feel like it's unlikely for me though because it would make sense that this would cancel cruise but it doesn't make sense to me that it could prevent setting of cruise (if the gear indicator always holds accuracy. I feel like I would see gear indicator issues if this was a culprit.

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mebgardner

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scott123007 said:
Just curious why you find that option important. To my knowledge, a motorcycle is the only motor vehicle that has that function.
IMO, I would be more inclined to accept, or keep, methods of dis-engagement (Hey turn off, I want Off Now...)

Rather than lose them (Hey, I said Off, and you're not Off yet. WhyNot? Ummmm Too Late! <Bang>).

I think that's why.

I understand your point: There's already so many methods of gaining CC Off, why be disappointed about losing one? I get it... But, that's my opinion.

Having written that, my pre-programmed (brain wired) method is to grab clutch. I never use the "Close Beyond Zero" throttle switch method. So, would I sorry to see it wired defeated? *Maybe*. Sorry when I needed it, and did not have it.
 

WJBertrand

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After 2-years and 35K+ miles, i did not know the CC could be disengaged by rotating the throttle the opposite direction, I usually use the brakes, clutch or on/off switch to disengage. Had to try it and sure enough, that works, though it is not a maneuver that comes naturally to me. The aftermarket cruise on my ST1300 never had that feature and I never missed it. I would not go out an eliminate it for no reason but if it proved to be the fix for a CC problem, I'd have no problem defeating it, at least temporarily.
 

RicoChet

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WJBertrand said:
After 2-years and 35K+ miles, i did not know the CC could be disengaged by rotating the throttle the opposite direction, I usually use the brakes, clutch or on/off switch to disengage. Had to try it and sure enough, that works, though it is not a maneuver that comes naturally to me. The aftermarket cruise on my ST1300 never had that feature and I never missed it. I would not go out an eliminate it for no reason but if it proved to be the fix for a CC problem, I'd have no problem defeating it, at least temporarily.
I find that interesting that people who have CC did not know about the opposite throttle move, I happened to find it by accident when I rented a harley davidson a few years ago and I've noticed that almost every single bike that has CC can be disengaged by rolling the throttle forward. It's nice to have the option but I usually tap the rear brake to turn it off, maybe a habit...
 

mebgardner

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RicoChet said:
I find that interesting that people who have CC did not know about the opposite throttle move, I happened to find it by accident when I rented a harley davidson a few years ago and I've noticed that almost every single bike that has CC can be disengaged by rolling the throttle forward. It's nice to have the option but I usually tap the rear brake to turn it off, maybe a habit...
... and this is the type of thing that also drives me to keep the OEM model, and wiring.

I could lend my cycle to a friend that expects it to function a specific way, and then it does not at a critical moment.

Or, I could sell it in a non-OEM configuration (and, we do this all the time, I know...) and then the buyer wrecks and blames me in a lawsuit.

I do not have just this wiring change in view, when I write this. It could be something that I changed years ago, and then forgot about and adapted to the "new model" of behavior. Along comes someone else and then a fight begins. Yes, buyer beware, caveat emptor and all that, yes, I get it.

But you get my point, right?

Anyway, back to your normally scheduled broadcast, about CC mis-behavior!
 

Crew Chief

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A couple of random thoughts from the peanut gallery:

This is the first bike I've had with CC and I really haven't ridden it all that much, but I find that when I want to slow down that it's instinctive to roll the throttle forward. I guess I found that feature by accident because I don't think I'd gotten an owners manual yet when I started doing it. I don't think I'd bypass it.

Since we have at least one bike with broken wires here, has anyone done a resistance check on that switch? It's in series with the others but feeds the main ECU rather than the brake relay and ABS ECU. This is the CC circuit, and is normally powered where the other one (BLC) is normally open.

The only thing I can find that's electrical in the transmission, is the neutral switch and it doesn't interconnect with either ECU or the CC circuit. As I recall, the gear indication is a calculated value. If shifting without the clutch shuts down the CC, I think it must be because of a momentary difference in wheel speed. Edit: There actually could be many software related flags that would turn off the system in that circumstance.

Part number changes typically happen for one of three reasons. They made a change in production techniques; there's a change in manufacturer: both of those are driven by the supply chain; or because a part was deficient. The last one is generally driven from the field. A quick search yesterday seemed to indicate that the clutch and both brake switches are unique to this bike. If there was a deficiency in the part, it seems it would have had to have been found via internal testing by Yamaha, because almost all Tenere' problems are going to show up here pretty quickly. Apparently there has only been some minor issues surrounding the foot switch to date. I would think that the engineers would be all over Sigeye's switches if they had found a problem with internal testing. The other reasons for part number changes could still be significant. I'd like to be able to compare them side by side.

I'm curious how Sigeye's switches would test using mebgardner's technique and if any of them have resistance across them like gv550 found. Were Sigeye's new switches the same part number as the originals? Are the old switches still around?

It's interesting that Sigeye had the relay chatter and if I understood correctly, solved it with a new relay. With a new part number for the relay too, I'm wondering if the new coil may stay closed with a little less current. The circuit that opens the relay, forks before going through the relay so neither ECU is dependent on anything that goes through the relay. That's why I tend to believe that the chatter was symptomatic rather than a cause of these problems. Of course there could be multiple problems between the affected bikes. It would seem unlikely, but certainly not impossible.

It is still possible that this problem is software/ECU related. If that's the case, we are unlikely to find it and will be dependent on Yamaha to do so. I'm still betting on the safety circuit(s).
 
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