xylo66
Member
Anyone read this week's MCN? Has a 'good' ( subjective ) article with a big trailie review, although the S-10 cracked its sump before the test even got going !!
MCN with big trailie review
- Thread starter xylo66
- Start date
Here comes another 10Kg in the next redesign :xylo66 said:
I assume this is MCN UK again?
xylo66
Member
sadly, yes. MCN is a bikers newspaper we get here in the UK.
Yeah, the morons decided to jump the bikes off a big drop-off and cracked the Tenere's sump, the idea of taking the Tenere / GS / KTM / Triumph and giving them to some proper off-road riders (Enduro & Paris Daker bods) to see what they are capable of (the bikes) was a great one.GrahamD said:
Not fitting a sump gaurd to the Tenere, or hand gaurds to the Triumph (they broke the clutch lever on that bike) was plain stupid, Yamaha offer a sump protector as an extra and lets face it most of us would never need one so I do not want the extra lump of metal as standard, similarly the Triumph is even more road orientated, had they equiped them better for the job the review may have been pretty interesting.
They did have an issue with the GS conking out and refusing to start and then developing an oil leak - the only genuine "fault" occured (not at all surprisingly to me) on the BMW.
On the plus side motorcycle sport and leisure gave the Tenere a good review this month, but it has to be noted by Mr Yamaha that most reviews tell of a dull engine, we all know this can be cured with a 5p fuse, but the press can only report as they find, I am sure the stupid low down restrictions have done more to harm the Tenere's sales than anything else, if they put the Diapson mapping on the next version it would get rave reports.
The other thing that hacks me off, and MCN did this again is they always bang on about equipment, apparently the GS was far better with its electronic suspension and Tyre Pressure monitors - they did not notice the BMW traction control is utter dogshit and the bike was shipped from BMW with about £3.5k of extra's which makes it about £14,500 to the Tenere's £11,999.
They also reckoned the BMW has the best build quality - please, I think the GS has had more factory recalls since its launch than every Yamaha model during the same period, these guys have obviously not done any research on the GS or they would realise the Final Drive rarely outlasts a decent chain, the electrics regularly fail, the fuel gauges never work properly and the engine covers furr up like a Polar Bear if they get within 100 miles of rain.
At least we all know the truth ::008::
xylo66
Member
Good one Rasher. Ditto, bar only one gripe I've always had and that is the screen. BM have done a far better job and my GSA is chalk and cheese compared to the S-10 for buffeting. Otherwise, agree with you !! Cheers
Re: Re: MCN with big trailie review
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Why pursue the truth when they can prop-up a European company that gives them massive infusions of money from advertisment? Oh, and you left out the fickle ESA that needs a reset whenever you look at it wrong.Rasher said:
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Re: Re: MCN with big trailie review
The Triumph gets some rave reviews over here, I guess as much from Patriotism as anything else, I am sure it is a great road bike, but then so is the Honda, and to a lesser extent the Kawasaki.
Even the Motorcycle sport and leisure review after raving about how good the bike is the reviewer said he would sill take the GS - then again if you have not been exposed to BMW reliability issues, dealer attitudes and servicing / repair costs and the huge amount it costs to add all the ABS / TC / Electronic Suspension the BMW seems very good.
The BMW demo and press bikes are always fully loaded, testers never have to worry about servicing and reliability and rarely consider the cost of the Extra's when comparig bikes, and when looking at used prices marvel at BMW residuals, again without noticing the bikes for sale at two years old just a couple of £k down on new price actually have £3k of extra's so have in fact lost £5k and not £2k in that two year period.
Just a pity Yamaha did not kit out the Tenere with the extra crash protection before handing it to these morons.
Read the review in full now, it appears the BMW never made it back either, but they made much less of an issue of the BMW going wrong than they did the Yamaha - and the Yamaha broke due to abuse, whereas the Beemer just went wrong all on its own accord.
I did notice a lot of double page spreads in Bike magazine when they had a BMW GS supplement for the 30th anniversary, and when the S1000RR won the sportsbike shootout, and again when they declared the GS the best bike of the last 25 years, and in fact whenever a UK mag does a group test the BMW always wins, not only the test, but normally the most advertising space contest.Tenerator12 said:
The Triumph gets some rave reviews over here, I guess as much from Patriotism as anything else, I am sure it is a great road bike, but then so is the Honda, and to a lesser extent the Kawasaki.
Even the Motorcycle sport and leisure review after raving about how good the bike is the reviewer said he would sill take the GS - then again if you have not been exposed to BMW reliability issues, dealer attitudes and servicing / repair costs and the huge amount it costs to add all the ABS / TC / Electronic Suspension the BMW seems very good.
The BMW demo and press bikes are always fully loaded, testers never have to worry about servicing and reliability and rarely consider the cost of the Extra's when comparig bikes, and when looking at used prices marvel at BMW residuals, again without noticing the bikes for sale at two years old just a couple of £k down on new price actually have £3k of extra's so have in fact lost £5k and not £2k in that two year period.
Just a pity Yamaha did not kit out the Tenere with the extra crash protection before handing it to these morons.
Read the review in full now, it appears the BMW never made it back either, but they made much less of an issue of the BMW going wrong than they did the Yamaha - and the Yamaha broke due to abuse, whereas the Beemer just went wrong all on its own accord.
RIVA
Well-Known Member
Not so many years ago, no UK bike magazine would rate any BMW. No matter which model was tested and that includes the 1100 and 1150 GS,s. The comparable Japaneese model was always rated better. Then this trend changed. With the introduction of the 1200 GS. rave reviews began. You could travel round the world on these super-machines or so we were led to believe. Nothing was mentioned of the problems with the ignition switch antennaes failing, the fuel pump failing ,the drive shaft failing, the bevel disentegrating, and the drive shaft housing collapsing. These are just some of the problems ignored by MCN and the other magazines. Methinks, money or gifts changed hands and continue to do so. No motorcycle is indestructable given the right set of circumstances and that includes the S10. But at this present time, if I was to travel around the world (bucket list) I would feel 100% confident in my Black (reliable & fast) S10. ::012:: ::014::
Paulvt1
New Member
Given the fanfare the UK bike press have showered on the Tiger (and it is good), i can still predict that when the BMW wethead comes out next year, the UK press will fall over it like the second coming.
Poohbear
Member
When was the second coming? Awwww I didn't miss it did I?Paulvt1 said:
snakebasket
Member
Any chance of scanning and posting the review. MCN has a bit of a deal going with Triumph, they are/have given an Explorer away as a prize so possibly a little love in going on?xylo66 said:
Their Germans are better than Triumphs Germans. (guess the movie)Paulvt1 said:
illustratedman
New Member
I don't get this dull engine thing the press always bang on about it's simply untrue.The motor in the s10 is absolute peach, plenty of power for me, low mpg for a 1200, nice and tractable. The bike sounds nice, when my mate heard it who always sticks a can on his bikes commented it sounds like a proper bike your bmw always sounded like a car, too quiet. Build quality is equal/better than my 1150 adv which i personally think was the last of the well built beemers. It's extremely stable at speed and handles very well in the twisties, standing up on the gravel it feels great and very manageable. It's not perfect the buffeting is a pain and the seat is a bit too hard but for those of not saddled with blind brand loyalty i think it's the best in class at the moment. I personally think the triumph is a road bike pure and simple. Also they tested the bm1200adv with all the bells and whistles more comparable to the worldcrosser with it's extra protection i think. Doing a bit of off roading in the woods is a pretty poor test as well really and not really what these bikes are meant for. I read a good ride report the other day where a guy on a 1200adv rode the length of s.america, he was at the dealers about 25% of the time getting repairs done and waiting days/weeks for parts the contrast with the nick sanders trip was marked. If mcn want to test these bikes properly why not take them to morroco for a week off piste and see how they go, but even then there would be little point as the bmw would win triumph second etc. The quality of the reporting in mcn is shite these day and advertising led, i read an editorial a couple of weeks ago with the guy saying the uk was the best place for touring on a bike ) says it all really.
) says it all really.
After watching all the reviews around the world regards the S10, you could spot the intended audience a mile off.illustratedman said:
The UK. Donlt really need an adventure bike at all. Sports tourers is what most of them seem to want. [edit - yes it's a one of those generalizations] The adventure class just lets them accessorize and look cool.
The rest of Europe depends really.
As the country got rougher, the S10 rated higher.
In OZ bikes like KTM' and GSA's are very useful. (If they had less trouble). What is good about the whole class is the manufacturers are not just making clones of the BMW's or KTM's. There is a good spread of "jacked up sports tourer" to feral off road beast.
Any review of this kind of bike should be about where it works better and where it doesn't work better. None of them are dogs while they are working.
Some of them are dogs to own, some of them aren't. Some are too new to tell.
The S10 may just be a bit off road suited, especially for the poms. It's a great machine of you want to do real variety though, but it pays for that with some less than perfect "for Sports Touring" compromises.
If you never take it near the rough stuff many owners seem to get into you would never "get it".
The guy from Hell for Leather finally got it, after not liking it at first, but it took a trip through Death Valley to figure out what the S10 is about.
Whether or not the just got a big fat cheque from YAMAHA I don't know, but it sums up what I had gathered over two years watching what reviweers and owners who bothered to test its off road limits said.
Which is why I refer to it as a nuclear powered dirt pig not a jacked up street bike, neither of which is an insult by the way.
xylo66
Member
Fair comments. I'm planning on taking the S-10 thru its real paces on the portuguese Serra da Estrela mountains ( see previous invitation ) like I did the 1200 GSA and should be a very interesting comparison !
By the way I should have probably put this a bit differently
It seems that is what a few UK MAGAZINES seem to think is the typical UK rider is what I meant to say, based on comments and adventure bike "tests" riding between pubs, if you get my drift.
illustratedman
New Member
You're not far wrong mate, the bike press here have jumped from the same old sportsbike reports into the "adventure" market as the next big thing, but are still doing the same thing on em as they did on sports/touring machines. MCN did a report recently on "adventure" bikes where they did a pure road trip with some readers and the multistrada came top with it's exhaust note being a major factor in the decision...GrahamD said:
Reviewers never "get" the ownership experience, and in a way this is not all their own fault, OK they sometimes get a long term bike, but it is still not theirs, the mods they do tend to be freebies, nothing is from their own pocket and the bike goes back at the end.
In the UK we do have the sports-bike culture and many mags now are having to adapt as just comparing the Jap 600's one month, 1000's the next and the odd Italian bike on the third month before repeating is not enough, unfaired bikes are more popular and adventure bikes are getting pretty mainstream - but their reviewing is all to cock with too much road riding and a lot of emphasis on how uch it weighs and how fast it goes.
Most sportsbikes refugee's are (contrary to popular belief) not buying these bikes as a fashion accessory, some may, but the vast majority are doing so as the sportsbike has become a victim of its own success, I loved my ZZR1400 (ZX14R to many of you) but it was pretty dull at speeds less than 90mph, motorway crusing "felt right" at about 120, twisty A-Roads were where it was best, short-shifting through the midrange would all too easily see 140,150 or more without the bike breaking a sweat.
I think more UK riders are finding the issue of just how fast these bikes have become too much, I loved the early CBR600's as you could cane them through the first 3 gears without going to jail if you got caught, these days all the 600's are about as fast as a GPZ1000RX was when I dreamed of such bikes, and we have far more traffic now, roads in far worse condition and a legal system that is far more likely to send you to jail for doing 150mph than for stabbing someone with a knife.
On top of that I think more people are also going abroad, perhaps modern machines are deemed more reliable, sat-nav's, mobile phones and the Internet makes Europe seem closer, smaller, safer and easier to navigate.
The UK riding population is ageing quite rapdily so riders are older and probably find the riding positions of these bikes more comfortable, and probably like me find them far more fun without the need to do warp factor nine.
The press have not really "got it" yet, and maybe never will, someone mentioned the MCN review where they went on what I think they described as an "epic" (or similar) journey, this was about 300 miles up a motorway, a day on some back roads and 300 miles back down the motorway again - I do more than that just to get to the Alps - which is where my Holiday begins.
As for the ownership experience, I can't see them ever truly taking into account things such as dealer costs and reliability as they are likely to upset advertisers pretty quick, and it takes time to really work out if you like a bike.
I never loved my GS, I wanted too but never really trusted it (for good reason) the dealers were also pretty crap (expensive and arrogant). I did think it was because when I had a superbike in the garage it was like a two wheeled Ferrari, an engineering masterpiece and thing of beauty that an adventure bike could never be, but I was wrong.
I really adore the Tenere, it looks fantastically well engineered and built (far better than the BMW) and whenever I walk into the garage now I feel proud of my bike again. I think many here feel the same, most reviews say it lacks character whereas I reckon it has far more than the BMW.
In the UK we do have the sports-bike culture and many mags now are having to adapt as just comparing the Jap 600's one month, 1000's the next and the odd Italian bike on the third month before repeating is not enough, unfaired bikes are more popular and adventure bikes are getting pretty mainstream - but their reviewing is all to cock with too much road riding and a lot of emphasis on how uch it weighs and how fast it goes.
Most sportsbikes refugee's are (contrary to popular belief) not buying these bikes as a fashion accessory, some may, but the vast majority are doing so as the sportsbike has become a victim of its own success, I loved my ZZR1400 (ZX14R to many of you) but it was pretty dull at speeds less than 90mph, motorway crusing "felt right" at about 120, twisty A-Roads were where it was best, short-shifting through the midrange would all too easily see 140,150 or more without the bike breaking a sweat.
I think more UK riders are finding the issue of just how fast these bikes have become too much, I loved the early CBR600's as you could cane them through the first 3 gears without going to jail if you got caught, these days all the 600's are about as fast as a GPZ1000RX was when I dreamed of such bikes, and we have far more traffic now, roads in far worse condition and a legal system that is far more likely to send you to jail for doing 150mph than for stabbing someone with a knife.
On top of that I think more people are also going abroad, perhaps modern machines are deemed more reliable, sat-nav's, mobile phones and the Internet makes Europe seem closer, smaller, safer and easier to navigate.
The UK riding population is ageing quite rapdily so riders are older and probably find the riding positions of these bikes more comfortable, and probably like me find them far more fun without the need to do warp factor nine.
The press have not really "got it" yet, and maybe never will, someone mentioned the MCN review where they went on what I think they described as an "epic" (or similar) journey, this was about 300 miles up a motorway, a day on some back roads and 300 miles back down the motorway again - I do more than that just to get to the Alps - which is where my Holiday begins.
As for the ownership experience, I can't see them ever truly taking into account things such as dealer costs and reliability as they are likely to upset advertisers pretty quick, and it takes time to really work out if you like a bike.
I never loved my GS, I wanted too but never really trusted it (for good reason) the dealers were also pretty crap (expensive and arrogant). I did think it was because when I had a superbike in the garage it was like a two wheeled Ferrari, an engineering masterpiece and thing of beauty that an adventure bike could never be, but I was wrong.
I really adore the Tenere, it looks fantastically well engineered and built (far better than the BMW) and whenever I walk into the garage now I feel proud of my bike again. I think many here feel the same, most reviews say it lacks character whereas I reckon it has far more than the BMW.
illustratedman
New Member
I agree rasher, i know you get a lot of crap on ukgser for criticising the beemer, where i have been a subscriber for many years and still am but i feel a lot of people are being taken in by the press reports regarding the bike. I never owned a 1200 and stuck with my 1150adv it's my belief after this model quality dropped through the floor, if buyers did a bit of research before their purchase i reckon the beemer sales would drop significantly. In the uk bmw just dont have the dealer network to make owning a new one viable for me and servicing cost is ridiculous for what is actually done, i know the costs involved i serviced mine myself, £70/80 in parts/oil and an hours labour so how does that equate to on average a £320 bill? my 1150 was a great bike but my s10 has just as much character.
snakebasket
Member
Hi fellow UKGSER's. I did heaps of research on GS's . I had a Tiger 955, which was good, but top heavy, had a few ongoing niggles (exactly as predicted on the Tiger forum, all almost to the exact mileage). One year i was at a check point on the National Rally and I did an unofficial survey. Loads of BMW riders do it and I had a friendly chat with the guys as they checked in and got feedback about the bikes. I concluded that nearly all 1200s had had a few problems (ignition ring was common at the time and obviously final drive) 1150s, a few fd issues, and I concluded that the 1100 was a really good bike (and the fact that it seemed a little lower), I ended up buying a mint 1100, and it is a great bike, but I still wanted a new bike last year and did the rounds. BMWs are a great ride. i tested the 1200 GS and GSA, loved them both, but always had a nagging doubt about reliability and the obvious costs associated with owning a BM. The S10 when it came obviously was an attraction but I felt ridiculously overpriced, but when they were discounted I snapped one up, and it is just fantastic. I have an FJR1300 which has legenry reliability and I trust the S10 will follow the same path.illustratedman said: