Mandatory recall coming: Hard start

[trainman]

The OP stated that she kept the starter turning for about a minute and she saw smoke coming out from under the side cover. She let off the started and the smoke got heavier and then flames came out from under the cover. I think her fire was caused by the relay and/or cables getting way too hot in an inclosed area with plenty of stuff to flame up.

I agree, the motor is 750 watts and on a cold start will try to pull 60 amps or so thru the cables, the cables are peak rated but not continuously rated to handle this size of current (If they were they might be the size of your finger) , they also lose rating by being loomed with other cables (so the heat has no where to go), eventually the insulation or terminal crimp will catch and then, as you say, under the tank there is plenty of fuel hosing to melt through

two bits of advice from me - keep an extinguisher in the garage (I have used one before, don't ask) and live on a hill!!

 

[OldRider]

I agree, the motor is 750 watts and on a cold start will try to pull 60 amps or so thru the cables, the cables are peak rated but not continuously rated to handle this size of current (If they were they might be the size of your finger) , they also lose rating by being loomed with other cables (so the heat has no where to go), eventually the insulation or terminal crimp will catch and then, as you say, under the tank there is plenty of fuel hosing to melt through

two bits of advice from me - keep an extinguisher in the garage (I have used one before, don't ask) and live on a hill!!

Yep, she turned the wire into a fuse and that never works out very well.

 

[EricV]

Actually, it would be more accurate to say the wire turned into an element, rather than a fuse. :lamp:

Moot, at this stage. Cause of said fire doesn't really matter. Point is, she suffered from the hard start issue. Bike burned up seems to be an accepted fact, so little point in discussion as to how exactly that occurred. The OP has the facts surrounding those events, we don't, nor do we need them at this point.

The interesting parts are that Yamaha changed something and that older model owners just might benefit if and when the recall comes to pass. We'll likely find out more next week and speculation can dwindle, replaced by facts and in time, actual, first hand, experience with dealers doing the recall procedure.

 

[JRE]

The interesting parts are that Yamaha changed something and that older model owners just might benefit if and when the recall comes to pass.

From what I read, gen II owners will benefit from the revised mapping as well.

 

[trainman]

Actually, it would be more accurate to say the wire turned into an element, rather than a fuse. :lamp:

Moot, at this stage. Cause of said fire doesn't really matter. Point is, she suffered from the hard start issue. Bike burned up seems to be an accepted fact, so little point in discussion as to how exactly that occurred. The OP has the facts surrounding those events, we don't, nor do we need them at this point.

The interesting parts are that Yamaha changed something and that older model owners just might benefit if and when the recall comes to pass. We'll likely find out more next week and speculation can dwindle, replaced by facts and in time, actual, first hand, experience with dealers doing the recall procedure.

I think some will have benefited from the OP's bad experience and these pages - they now know you cannot keep turning the starter.

do agree that the fix release is of more interest to the wider ownership, I have a service in a few weeks, will see what they say, if anything

 

[OldRider]

Actually, it would be more accurate to say the wire turned into an element, rather than a fuse. :lamp:

Moot, at this stage. Cause of said fire doesn't really matter. Point is, she suffered from the hard start issue. Bike burned up seems to be an accepted fact, so little point in discussion as to how exactly that occurred. The OP has the facts surrounding those events, we don't, nor do we need them at this point.

The interesting parts are that Yamaha changed something and that older model owners just might benefit if and when the recall comes to pass. We'll likely find out more next week and speculation can dwindle, replaced by facts and in time, actual, first hand, experience with dealers doing the recall procedure.

I agree "element" is the better description. I think the S10 could benefit a lot from a better starter or starter gearing. I've never had a MC that turned over so slow when starting. The first thing I did when I got home from the dealer was charge the battery. I watched them take it out of the crate and I figured they didn't have time to fully charge it, but it never got any better.

 

[EricV]

I think the S10 could benefit a lot from a better starter or starter gearing. I've never had a MC that turned over so slow when starting. The first thing I did when I got home from the dealer was charge the battery. I watched them take it out of the crate and I figured they didn't have time to fully charge it, but it never got any better.

A agree, this is a slow cranking bike. What did appreciably help was the heavier battery. I moved to a Yuasa YTZ14S from the YTZ12S. The standard 12S has 210 CCAs and the 14S has 230 CCAs and is a noticeably heavier battery that does turn the starter with a bit more authority. Both batteries have the exact same dimensions and terminal locations.

 

[True Grip]

Oldrider I thought the same thing. When I need a battery I'll be following Eric's lead.

 

[gaps]

I wonder what a voltage drop check would register from the battery to starter. My Triumph only needed a heavier gauge copper in this path, now it starts like....well... a Yamaha should.....and my Craigslist Bandit starts faster than you can release the starter button...

 

[whisperquiet]

A agree, this is a slow cranking bike. What did appreciably help was the heavier battery. I moved to a Yuasa YTZ14S from the YTZ12S. The standard 12S has 210 CCAs and the 14S has 230 CCAs and is a noticeably heavier battery that does turn the starter with a bit more authority. Both batteries have the exact same dimensions and terminal locations.

I have a YTZ14S in my bike also and it does seem to start easier.

 

[jbrown]

Of course, if you have the higher capacity battery and experience a hard start situation, a fire may come sooner!

 

[Checkswrecks]

Back to the basics of reading the owners manual and not just holding the button till something happens..

 

[RonH]

Yep, she turned the wire into a fuse and that never works out very well.

I think she turned the wire into a fabricated story. If I had a fire, the whole thing would be handled by insurance, then would get payed off and if they think Yamaha to blame, then the claim may escalate to a recall. Not here, like 10 days later a brand new bike courtesy of Yamaha, and forever previledges of email with all the top brass. I don't believe someone turns a motor over for a minute, then those 1/4" thick cables get hot to start a fire. First of all wire insulation does not burn, if you don't believe, take any modern wire out of any vehical loom, hold a match, lighter, torch to it, it will not catch fire. Also the battery is not a 800CCA battery capable of melting a cable, it's a 11ah battery, at 1 minute cranking it's about seen better days. So the 11ah battery had power to heat up cabling that doesn't burn and light fire to other combustible items. Right, it melted right through the fuel line, or possibly melted right through the tank where gas gushed out and 5 gallons went up in flames. Bull fricking sheet.
If there was a fire, maybe a fuel line came disconnected, someone with creative thinking disconnected the plugs and poured gas on the bike? Don't know, but bullsheet on the hard start fire scenerio.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Okay then. We all have one, and now know what opinion you have.


Again folks - address the issues or posts, not the people posting.


::024::

 

[Dogdaze]

Okay then. We all have one, and now know what opinion you have.


Again folks - address the issues or posts, not the people posting.


::024::

::026:: It seems to me all too much trouble to fabricate a story, to what end? It would have been better to leave well alone had it been a red herring and let sleeping dogs lie, that's just me. So let's wait and see, rather than speculate and let the demons run riot.........

 

[2112]

Just out of interest & comparison, my former Moto Guzzi Stelvio seemed to crank over at half the speed the S10 does and always fired up, although it often seemed like it wouldn't. The S10 on the other hand seems like it'll not fire but mystically bursts into life (not flames) every time. Odd.

Also out of interest my S10 has a standing voltage (ignition off) of 12.7 volts leaping to 13.4/13.5 volts when running (idle) from a calibrated 'Fluke' meter.




P.S. I always think 'Fluke' is a bad name for test equipment. Also when I was an overhead linesman we used 'Chance' live line tools, the name did not fill you with confidence... Good kit though.

 

[OldRider]

So RonH, did you take any pictures of the bike after it burned? I would like to see what it looked like.

 

[Big Blu]

::026:: It seems to me all too much trouble to fabricate a story, to what end? It would have been better to leave well alone had it been a red herring and let sleeping dogs lie, that's just me. So let's wait and see, rather than speculate and let the demons run riot.........

+ 1
I applaud the op for her efforts to bring this to the attention of Yamaha. Well done KCW, two thumbs up for you! ::008:: ::008::

Paul

 

[Ramseybella]

Just out of interest & comparison, my former Moto Guzzi Stelvio seemed to crank over at half the speed the S10 does and always fired up, although it often seemed like it wouldn't. The S10 on the other hand seems like it'll not fire but mystically bursts into life (not flames) every time. Odd.

Also out of interest my S10 has a standing voltage (ignition off) of 12.7 volts leaping to 13.4/13.5 volts when running (idle) from a calibrated 'Fluke' meter.




P.S. I always think 'Fluke' is a bad name for test equipment. Also when I was an overhead linesman we used 'Chance' live line tools, the name did not fill you with confidence... Good kit though.

Sort of like Yamaha using the name Impact Blue for the Blue Tenere..

 

[Defekticon]

I must be the only one that doesn't care about the hard start issue, and am hoping the rumored 2016 improved fuel maps are included in this recall. If they're not I'll send it off and get it remapped, you can't beat free.