Lower Fork leg vibration- Help needed

[greg the pole]

Was just thinking about a new S10 ES, I like the MT-09 Tracer (FJ) but just seemed small and I like the ergo's of the S10!!
But will try to resolve the brake issue first, then see how it goes.......... I will not attempt fork oil change myself, not enough tools with me and possibly cost issue here from the local dealer ::010::

I feel for people that have to rely on their
You will not go wrong with either. The MT/FJ has lack of weight on it's side. It's very noticeable. If I didn't have to ride gravel, I'd have the FJ only.
But the Tenere is better over long distance, and of course on the rough stuff (paved). The oem suspension is very basic on the FJ, and needs addressing.

 

[Dogdaze]

Re: Lower Fork leg vibration- Help needed- Update

Update. I went to see the tyre store and confirm whether or not the front tyre was to blame, the owner and the service tech took it out for a ride ( both from track racing team background) and said the tyres were not an issue. So took a deep breath and ripped out the brake calipers, I had new seals shipped and arrive Friday, took out the pistons one and replaced the seals, starting with the small then the larger ones, one at a time. What a PITA, not like other caliper that you can split in half and service them, oh no, not these. After a lot of mess (brake fluid gets friggin everywhere) and loads of light, finally got it done, bled the system and waited overnight to take a test ride..........................

I think I got my old bike back ::012::

Having said that, now that it is work as normal, I'm looking to change...........................

 

[Checkswrecks]

DogDaze, you said the bobbins were checked and rotated, Do you have acess to a dial indicator and stand? I would suggest checking the run out on the disk. The only way a brake pad can gall is to have debris or the disk vent holes nicking the pad material due to a slight run out. You stated that the judder is gone with more brake lever pressure, this would stand to reason due to the higher pressure forcing the disk to run more true.

Is it possible a slight fork seal leak has allowed a small amount of oil to reach the pad material? Does not explain the galling, but it could show up as a judder under light pressure.

Good Luck

Dog -


We sure don't want to lose you and what you are describing is typically an indication of a warped disc or one which is not running true, so this would have been the first thing I would have suggested ensuring is right. Here's a thread on the same stuff:
http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=14134.0

For the next guy:
While on the bike, start by using a micrometer to make sure the disc is uniform in thickness and 4mm or more. Not a likely problem, but needs to be checked.

In addition to SilverGoose's use of ink to check, there is another relatively cheap and easy way to check. The ink idea usually works but a drawback is that what seems to be an out of round condition may be really how the disc sits on the bobbins.


Remove the wheel and put it on its' side, then lay a piece of window glass on top of it. Glass is cheap at any hardware store and truly flat. Because of the bobbins, you'll need to use a number of smaller scraps as spacers. Just make sure the scraps are exactly the same thickness. Then measure between the disc and big piece of flat glass every 30 degrees or so with a set of feeler gauges to see how out of round the disc is.


Repeat for the other disc.

 

[EricV]

Glad you found some resolution to your vibration under light braking issue. Sorry it turned into such an involved process.

Looking for a change? Ask yourself what things/features you want to gain? Can those be added to the existing bike for a reasonable cost, and function in an acceptable manner compared to the alternate bike option?

You can do a lot to the existing bike and still be well under the cost of a new bike. Every once and I while I get a little NBF, (new bike fever), but when I consider I'll probably only get ~$3000 out of selling my current bike, will have to tear all the farkles off and sell what ever doesn't fit on the new bike, buy replacement farkles for the new bike, AND the cost of the new bike, it just doesn't seem like I'm going to gain much other than some shiny paint and minor improvements.

I decided to upgrade the suspension after living with the stock stuff for 101k miles. Should have done it long ago, just couldn't rationalize the expense. Wife bought a new GSA, so I've convinced myself that I deserve some suspension work. $30k Vs $3k, I think I'm money ahead. I don't see any other bike on the market here that interests me. If I upgraded it would just be to a newer Super Tenere. Some new suspension, finishing the CC install I started back in '13 and a detail job and I have a bike that rides better than a new one and has the same features.

 

[Dogdaze]

Hey CW,
I did the SilverGoose method, dics have virtually zero runout as confirmed by the tyre tech, and as yet may just change those out too...... my main concern was the lower caliper pistons that were slow on pushing out. That has now been cured, and if I was critical then I would say they are about 5% slower still, but have read that they are secondary piston and as such the primary ones will extend first......... could well be BS! It was the internet after all :lamp:

EricV, I whole-heartedly agree with your sentiment, I will end up with another S10 (ES) if only to put the experiences of this particular bike behind me (long story, starting with the supplying dealer), but am open to look at the Honda CTX1300 and even the Tracer (although when I sat on one it did feel small) I ride pavement only, I like the S10 / BMW GS ergo's, having had proper custom cruisers in the past I'm somewhat over the ride-on-sunny-days-then-polish bit. Also don't want anything heavier. I would like ES, cruise would be nice, shaft is a biggy, other than that, I'm open, even looking at another TMAX ::010::

 

[EricV]

The CTX1300 should be an interesting comparison for you. I'm a big Honda fan, but they took a long time to bring that bike to the US. It's been available to you longer and should have more history there, in terms of any issues owners have had. It's a Honda, so I expect few, if any. The V4 motor should be very smooth and have nice power. Might generate some heat, as the V4s tend to do, but I have no idea how well they managed it for that bike. I believe it's the same basic motor as the Pan European, (ST1300 to the US), which is a very nice bike too. The CTX seems to have more soul than the Pan, imho. That's not a bad thing. ;D Maybe I will go see if I can get a test ride on one at the local dealer. I'm not in the market to spend that much right now, but it's always interesting to taste a new bike.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Hey CW,
I did the SilverGoose method, dics have virtually zero runout as confirmed by the tyre tech, and as yet may just change those out too...... my main concern was the lower caliper pistons that were slow on pushing out. That has now been cured, and if I was critical then I would say they are about 5% slower still, but have read that they are secondary piston and as such the primary ones will extend first......... could well be BS! It was the internet after all :lamp:

EricV, I whole-heartedly agree with your sentiment, I will end up with another S10 (ES) if only to put the experiences of this particular bike behind me (long story, starting with the supplying dealer), but am open to look at the Honda CTX1300 and even the Tracer (although when I sat on one it did feel small) I ride pavement only, I like the S10 / BMW GS ergo's, having had proper custom cruisers in the past I'm somewhat over the ride-on-sunny-days-then-polish bit. Also don't want anything heavier. I would like ES, cruise would be nice, shaft is a biggy, other than that, I'm open, even looking at another TMAX ::010::

All sounds good.


btw - The smaller pistons are not because they are secondary, it's so the clamping force is even and the pads wear evenly.

 

[Dogdaze]

All sounds good.


btw - The smaller pistons are not because they are secondary, it's so the clamping force is even and the pads wear evenly.

::008:: Warned you it might be internet BS! They last bike I had was Tokico 6 pot pistons, worked flawlessy.

 

[Dogdaze]

The CTX1300 should be an interesting comparison for you. I'm a big Honda fan, but they took a long time to bring that bike to the US. It's been available to you longer and should have more history there, in terms of any issues owners have had. It's a Honda, so I expect few, if any. The V4 motor should be very smooth and have nice power. Might generate some heat, as the V4s tend to do, but I have no idea how well they managed it for that bike. I believe it's the same basic motor as the Pan European, (ST1300 to the US), which is a very nice bike too. The CTX seems to have more soul than the Pan, imho. That's not a bad thing. ;D Maybe I will go see if I can get a test ride on one at the local dealer. I'm not in the market to spend that much right now, but it's always interesting to taste a new bike.

My local Honda dealer has one that you can rent for 24 hours, so I may do that, just to get it out of my system............

 

[taskmaster86]

Re: Lower Fork leg vibration- Help needed- Update

Update.

I think I got my old bike back ::012::

Having said that, now that it is work as normal, I'm looking to change...........................

I am glad you got it figured out and glad my suggestion was correct. Besides fixing the vibration issue, you ensured your braking system is reliable, something that is so important and over looked on a motorcycle.

 

[Dogdaze]

Re: Lower Fork leg vibration- Help needed- Update

I am glad you got it figured out and glad my suggestion was correct. Besides fixing the vibration issue, you ensured your braking system is reliable, something that is so important and over looked on a motorcycle.

::008::

And please excuse my grammatical errors, I noticed a few today! It's what happens when the good lady is talking about other things while you are trying to type :

 

[WJBertrand]

Update on my brake vibration/pulsing issue. After going back and forth with Yamaha they finally "Good Willed" me a new set of front rotors. I'm still covered under Y.E.S. and though wear items are excluded, my argument was that the rotors were nowhere near minimum thickness so objected to the wear claim they were making. The dealer insisted on fitting new pads at my expense so I insisted on them giving me the old ones back which still have 3/4 thickness left. Assuming I'll need new pads eventually, this won't turn out to be any additional expense in the long run. I'm a bit miffed at having to pay the one hour $89 labor charge though.

The result? Smooth vibration & pulsation free braking now. In fact it's smoother than it was when new which convinces me there was an issue from day one. The service manager at the dealer doing the repair (different from the dealer where I purchased the bike) told me it's important to properly bed-in the brakes on a new bike or when replacing a rotor, it's part of their normal new bike set up. What he described doing was riding with the brakes dragging moderately and using throttle to maintain speed. He says he can feel the brakes begin to grab, sometimes rather suddenly, and then he knows that material has transferred from the pads to the rotor properly and evenly. This bedding-in was certainly not performed on my bike when delivered as it had less than a mile on the odometer when I rode it away from the dealer.

If you search "brake bedding-in" in your browser, there's a lot of information that indicates brake pulsation is more often a problem of pad-to-disk uneven material transfer than actual warpage. When this happens the rotors may not heat evenly under use causing a change in the material hardness in the hot spots that then wears differently. Re-machining the rotors only temporarily fixes it because of the underlying uneven changes in the rotor hardness, All I know is my bike brakes like a dream now.

 

[Dogdaze]

Hey Jeff, thanks for the update. I too change the pads and replaced with new discs (albeit at my expense) evert
hyping worked fine, bedded gently for about 100 miles, hardly touching the brakes, then last sunday went for ar ride up the mountains and back down, didn't think I was hard on the brakes but about 20 miles from home noticed a slight judder again,I was so pissed off. It's time to let this bike go. Taking up way too much of my head space. I'm glad your machine is rideable again ::012::

 

[WJBertrand]

Hey Jeff, thanks for the update. I too change the pads and replaced with new discs (albeit at my expense) evert
hyping worked fine, bedded gently for about 100 miles, hardly touching the brakes, then last sunday went for ar ride up the mountains and back down, didn't think I was hard on the brakes but about 20 miles from home noticed a slight judder again,I was so pissed off. It's time to let this bike go. Taking up way too much of my head space. I'm glad your machine is rideable again ::012::

I sure hope my brakes don't do that again but if they do I will go with aftermarket EBC, Galfer or Ferodo as I will have to conclude that Yamaha has a basic problem with these parts. Of interest is that a friend of mine just bought a brand new '16 FJR ES and has had the exact same problem as me, right out of the gate.

Based on what I'm reading here;

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/bed-in-theory-definitions-and-procedures/stock-brake-system-bed-in

And what the dealer told me yesterday, breaking them in easy is not the correct way to bed them in. I used the stop tech technique on our family minivan (Toyota Sienna) after many pad and rotor replacements/re-machinings trying to chase the shudder and pulsation, this finally solved the problem for good with those brakes. I've followed this procedure since on all of my cars.

 

[Dogdaze]

I think the root cause are the calipers, they come out unevenly and create hotspots, this in turn cause the discs to have uneven wear, not warping as such, just not a clean surface, this is the issue. My original discs were made by Galfer, the replacements are a pattern part, and the pads are EBC 380's, but I may just go to full organic as they are easy on the disc, wear faster but who cares if they prevent juddering? I can replace pads in about 10 mins for both sides (lots of practice). As I said to my wife the other day, this bike has made me a better mechanic for all the wrong reasons ::010:: ::010:: ::010::