Low Oil light? How low before it comes on?

roy

Member
Founding Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Messages
751
Location
Mississippi
Re: oil light came on...

Z06 said:
Mine has come on 6 or 7 times. 2 times in last 4 days. Always about 2 miles from the house and at a steady 45 MPH. Stay's on until I shut off bike and restart. Oil level near top of glass. Have no idea why. But I will always check for reason when it does come on.
Early model FZ1's did this on occasion and even with oil showing in the window. It's a Yamaha thing me thinks. :mad:

Mine has yet to come on even at oil changes but I prefill the oil filter before installing so I've never even seen my oil light on with the bike running.
 

EricV

Riding, farkling, riding...
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
8,302
Location
Tupelo, MS
Re: oil light came on...

Guys, don't compare wet sump bikes to dry sump bikes. Do remember that Yamaha likes an oil level light, not an oil pressure light.

Now, say it with me: Dry sump, dry sump, dry sump!

Got oil in the bike, ya got oil in the motor. The oil is thick when cold and flows a little slower. In some cases this can cause the low level light for the sump to come on. This does not mean the bike is in danger of running dry, only that the oil is returning to the sump slightly slower than when warmed up.

If it's a little low or hi, it matters not on a dry sump engine. The forward plug drains the engine, which only holds a small amount of the total oil capacity. The rear plug drains the sump, which holds most of the oil. The low level light is on the sump. Even if it comes on, there is still oil in the sump and it will be pumped to the engine. The engine will not starve of oil if you have oil in the bike.

Yeah sure, the light shouldn't stay on. Probably too little oil there, but not so little that you're going to starve the engine. Probably means you're an anal retentive fuck that let it drain overnight. Stop that!!! You don't need to try and drain every drop of oil out of the engine. You're not supposed to try. Drain it until it is just dripping slowly and put the drain plug back in. Draining it all night means you need to add a touch more oil than the manual says, because you drained out more oil than they expected you to. No shop on the planet is going to drain the oil over night. Think about it.

The sight glass? Yep, it's to see if the goldfish are still alive. It's not the be all, end all of oil level gauges. It's just a hole in the engine with a little glass port there. Depending on the temp of the engine and how long you let it run, and set after you shut it down, it will be high, low or just right. If this was a wet sump engine, it would be more useful. IT'S NOT.
 

big dave

New Member
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
Joined
May 19, 2011
Messages
299
Location
Huddersfield, UK
Re: oil light came on...

EricV said:
Guys, don't compare wet sump bikes to dry sump bikes. Do remember that Yamaha likes an oil level light, not an oil pressure light.

Now, say it with me: Dry sump, dry sump, dry sump!

Got oil in the bike, ya got oil in the motor. The oil is thick when cold and flows a little slower. In some cases this can cause the low level light for the sump to come on. This does not mean the bike is in danger of running dry, only that the oil is returning to the sump slightly slower than when warmed up.

If it's a little low or hi, it matters not on a dry sump engine. The forward plug drains the engine, which only holds a small amount of the total oil capacity. The rear plug drains the sump, which holds most of the oil. The low level light is on the sump. Even if it comes on, there is still oil in the sump and it will be pumped to the engine. The engine will not starve of oil if you have oil in the bike.

Yeah sure, the light shouldn't stay on. Probably too little oil there, but not so little that you're going to starve the engine. Probably means you're an anal retentive fuck that let it drain overnight. Stop that!!! You don't need to try and drain every drop of oil out of the engine. You're not supposed to try. Drain it until it is just dripping slowly and put the drain plug back in. Draining it all night means you need to add a touch more oil than the manual says, because you drained out more oil than they expected you to. No shop on the planet is going to drain the oil over night. Think about it.

The sight glass? Yep, it's to see if the goldfish are still alive. It's not the be all, end all of oil level gauges. It's just a hole in the engine with a little glass port there. Depending on the temp of the engine and how long you let it run, and set after you shut it down, it will be high, low or just right. If this was a wet sump engine, it would be more useful. IT'S NOT.
::026::
 

Koinz

Active Member
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 13, 2010
Messages
2,100
Location
Newtown, PA
Re: oil light came on...

This issue just happened to me. A little unnerving when the oil light comes on and it stayed on for about 5 seconds then turned off. Level was in the middle of the site glass. Just wanted to post so we have some unofficial tracking.
 

Ron_Luning

Active Member
Founding Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
143
Location
Ellicott City, MD
Re: oil light came on...

Mine did this a few times last week. The light didn't go off after a few seconds, so I stopped and checked the oil level. It was in the middle of the sight glass. My old FZ1 would do the same thing if the level got below about the 60% point on the sight glass.
 

coastie

Active Member
2012 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Messages
1,825
Location
St Petersburg Florida
Re: oil light came on...

This happened to me for the first time in almost 7k miles. I was in heavy traffic and no shoulder to pull over on. It rode it for about 20-30 more seconds until I had a safe spot to pull over and prayed it was not a mechanical issue and just a finicky oil level sensor. When I finally pulled over, I switched off the bike got off and went to the sight glass side and held the bike straight up. Watched the sight glass fill up with nice clean oil for about 30 seconds. So I knew it was drawing oil from the sump and back flowing back in after shutoff. I went back and turned the ignition on, and no oil light. Then I started it and let it run for about a minute with no oil light, then proceeded to ride it home. She ran like a champ. What did i do different? Well it was about to be a monsoon and nasty thunder and lighting were in the area, as I was leaving work. In my haste to try to beat the rain, I fired up the old girl and took off out of the parking lot with no warmup. The light came on less than a half mile down the road. I chalk it up to the big twin not being very happy with me. 99.9% of the time, I let it warm up properly. Now Ill just make sure its 100% of the time, or I just have to take it very easy while it warms up.
::021::
 

Yamaguy55

No difficult problems, just difficult people
Joined
Mar 18, 2011
Messages
881
Location
Sunbury, PA
Re: oil light came on...

Like EricV said: the light is level, not pressure activated. So if the oil shows in the window, then the switch is fubar. Or sticking. It is item number 8, on the Electrical 1 page of the 2012 Super Tenere parts list. It has nothing to do with oil pressure, which is what triggers the light in most cars. Merely level in our case.

Dry sumps for the uninitiated:

Oil is scavenged (drawn out of) the transmission, clutch housing, crankcase, etc. A pump does this, and in our case, pumps it into a "tank" formed by the engine castings under the transmission. Other bikes such as the original Honda 750 Four and Harleys and some others use an actual tank, often below the seat in place of a frame side cover. Some, like Yamaha's SR/XT 500 series used the hollow frame backbone tube and front downtube as the tank. Doesn't matter much where the tank is, just that there is a tank. Yamaha first used this in-case style to my knowledge in the TX/XT500 twin of the early to mid seventies. The idea is to have sufficient oil without a really tall/deep engine made that way by an oil pan with reasonable capacity. Another advantage is reduced 'windage", where the oil is whipped into a froth by the rotating crankshaft and other things. By extracting the oil from the operating parts with a scavenge pump, and then getting it to whatever is being used as a "tank", not only does the oil not become fluid friction, but cools off some and also has a chance to rid itself of excess air. The fluid friction becomes a problem in wet sump four strokes because of overfilling or excessive windage. Imagine trying to run through waist deep water vice perfectly dry, soft ground. That's why overfilling four strokes is such a big no-no. In the old V8 hot rod days, they made add-on windage trays to bolted onto the bottom of the main bearing caps, separating the rotating crankshaft from the sump. We get this free of charge by our dry sump system.

From the tank, the oil is drawn into the supply pump, a different set of separate pump rotors in our pump assembly, which pumps the oil around around the engine under pressure. Most scavenge pumps are high volume, very low pressure pumps compared to the supply pump that pressurizes the oil system.

a last benefit of the dry sump system is that the oil supply pump pickup is usually, but not always, submerged deeper into the oil tank, drawing off the bottom. This has two benefits: A) G-loads and hills have a much harder time moving the oil away from the pickup which would cause oil starvation. The old Honda 100s and 125s from the early seventies would lock up if you did prolonged wheelies, as the pickup was up front. B) The other benefit is if you bust off a gear tooth or something else, it seldom ends up in the tank, because the scavenge pump system is generally set up to avoid debris. That way, the supply/pressure pump can draw off the absolute bottom of the tank, not a bit up to avoid debris.

So: that's why I have adopted the following method to check the oil. It has to be consistent to mean anything. I usually store the bike on the centerstand in the garage. After wheeling it outside and starting, I let it run for about a minuet or so, on the side stand, but that isn't important. What is important is I shut it off, get it level with both tires on the ground, and stoop down and look at the window. If the air temps are colder, then it tends to be at the lower mark, if warmer, then the upper. But always between the marks. Because I do it the same way, every time, I eliminate the differences caused by a really hot engine vs a not so hot engine, a hard ride vs an easy one. I always check before the ride, don't care about it before i put it away. If the engine isn't running, it doesn't care either. I'll add a caveat that it always shows full to over full if hot. But the amount of perceived overfill has a lot to do with temperature. Which is why i do what I do. After shutoff, there is some drain back into the forward crankcase sump, which is why i let it run for a minute or so before I check. that way, the scavenge pump can do it's job.

Sorry for the saga, but that's how it works.

::26::
 

coastie

Active Member
2012 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Messages
1,825
Location
St Petersburg Florida
Re: oil light came on...

Yamaguy55 said:
Like EricV said: the light is level, not pressure activated. So if the oil shows in the window, then the switch is fubar. Or sticking. It is item number 8, on the Electrical 1 page of the 2012 Super Tenere parts list. It has nothing to do with oil pressure, which is what triggers the light in most cars. Merely level in our case.

Dry sumps for the uninitiated:

Oil is scavenged (drawn out of) the transmission, clutch housing, crankcase, etc. A pump does this, and in our case, pumps it into a "tank" formed by the engine castings under the transmission. Other bikes such as the original Honda 750 Four and Harleys and some others use an actual tank, often below the seat in place of a frame side cover. Some, like Yamaha's SR/XT 500 series used the hollow frame backbone tube and front downtube as the tank. Doesn't matter much where the tank is, just that there is a tank. Yamaha first used this in-case style to my knowledge in the TX/XT500 twin of the early to mid seventies. The idea is to have sufficient oil without a really tall/deep engine made that way by an oil pan with reasonable capacity. Another advantage is reduced 'windage", where the oil is whipped into a froth by the rotating crankshaft and other things. By extracting the oil from the operating parts with a scavenge pump, and then getting it to whatever is being used as a "tank", not only does the oil not become fluid friction, but cools off some and also has a chance to rid itself of excess air. The fluid friction becomes a problem in wet sump four strokes because of overfilling or excessive windage. Imagine trying to run through waist deep water vice perfectly dry, soft ground. That's why overfilling four strokes is such a big no-no. In the old V8 hot rod days, they made add-on windage trays to bolted onto the bottom of the main bearing caps, separating the rotating crankshaft from the sump. We get this free of charge by our dry sump system.

From the tank, the oil is drawn into the supply pump, a different set of separate pump rotors in our pump assembly, which pumps the oil around around the engine under pressure. Most scavenge pumps are high volume, very low pressure pumps compared to the supply pump that pressurizes the oil system.

a last benefit of the dry sump system is that the oil supply pump pickup is usually, but not always, submerged deeper into the oil tank, drawing off the bottom. This has two benefits: A) G-loads and hills have a much harder time moving the oil away from the pickup which would cause oil starvation. The old Honda 100s and 125s from the early seventies would lock up if you did prolonged wheelies, as the pickup was up front. B) The other benefit is if you bust off a gear tooth or something else, it seldom ends up in the tank, because the scavenge pump system is generally set up to avoid debris. That way, the supply/pressure pump can draw off the absolute bottom of the tank, not a bit up to avoid debris.

So: that's why I have adopted the following method to check the oil. It has to be consistent to mean anything. I usually store the bike on the centerstand in the garage. After wheeling it outside and starting, I let it run for about a minuet or so, on the side stand, but that isn't important. What is important is I shut it off, get it level with both tires on the ground, and stoop down and look at the window. If the air temps are colder, then it tends to be at the lower mark, if warmer, then the upper. But always between the marks. Because I do it the same way, every time, I eliminate the differences caused by a really hot engine vs a not so hot engine, a hard ride vs an easy one. I always check before the ride, don't care about it before i put it away. If the engine isn't running, it doesn't care either. I'll add a caveat that it always shows full to over full if hot. But the amount of perceived overfill has a lot to do with temperature. Which is why i do what I do. After shutoff, there is some drain back into the forward crankcase sump, which is why i let it run for a minute or so before I check. that way, the scavenge pump can do it's job.

Sorry for the saga, but that's how it works.

::26::
Not sure if you directed that at me or it was a general statement for education to the masses; but that is why is said oil level, and why I stopped the engine, got off and observed the site glass after shutting down the engine. I knew if I got off and it was full, I might have a problem, but if I saw the oil flowing back in then i'm probably ok. Either way thanks for the explanation. Now one thing I'm not to sure on is the location of the sensor. I never really thought about its locate, but based on your explanation, Id assume its in the crank and not the sump/tank?
 

Yamaguy55

No difficult problems, just difficult people
Joined
Mar 18, 2011
Messages
881
Location
Sunbury, PA
Re: oil light came on...

Tank, not sump. Look at the parts diagrams or service manual. theoretically, there should be very little to no oil in the area under the crankshaft; it should all be in passages or the tank under the transmission.

The saga was intended for anyone that didn't understand the how and why of a dry sump. No one in particular. The responses indicated maybe many weren't aware of the different systems. Given that cars are mostly wet sumps, and the oil lights come on due to lack of pressure, that's what most expect. Not a level problem (or a stuck switch)

I'm not sure exactly why they use a float switch rather than a pressure one, but that's what it is. My FZ and WR are the same way. Maybe they bought too many and are trying to use them up?
 

behindbars

Member
2013 Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
82
Location
Houston, TX
Re: oil light came on...

Yamaguy55 said:
I'm not sure exactly why they use a float switch rather than a pressure one, but that's what it is. My FZ and WR are the same way. Maybe they bought too many and are trying to use them up?
Yamaha has been using oil level switches for quite some time. My '86 Radian and '86 FJ1200 both had them.
 

Yamaguy55

No difficult problems, just difficult people
Joined
Mar 18, 2011
Messages
881
Location
Sunbury, PA
Re: oil light came on...

They were leftovers from the oil injection tanks of 77 DT250/400s 8)

They have been using floats for quite a while. I think they bought a few million too many and are still trying to use them up, anywhere/anyway they can. :)
 

cbrunsw

New Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2011
Messages
156
Location
Calgary Alberta
Re: oil light came on...

EricV said:
Guys, don't compare wet sump bikes to dry sump bikes. Do remember that Yamaha likes an oil level light, not an oil pressure light.

Now, say it with me: Dry sump, dry sump, dry sump!

Got oil in the bike, ya got oil in the motor. The oil is thick when cold and flows a little slower. In some cases this can cause the low level light for the sump to come on. This does not mean the bike is in danger of running dry, only that the oil is returning to the sump slightly slower than when warmed up.

If it's a little low or hi, it matters not on a dry sump engine. The forward plug drains the engine, which only holds a small amount of the total oil capacity. The rear plug drains the sump, which holds most of the oil. The low level light is on the sump. Even if it comes on, there is still oil in the sump and it will be pumped to the engine. The engine will not starve of oil if you have oil in the bike.

Yeah sure, the light shouldn't stay on. Probably too little oil there, but not so little that you're going to starve the engine. Probably means you're an anal retentive smurf that let it drain overnight. Stop that!!! You don't need to try and drain every drop of oil out of the engine. You're not supposed to try. Drain it until it is just dripping slowly and put the drain plug back in. Draining it all night means you need to add a touch more oil than the manual says, because you drained out more oil than they expected you to. No shop on the planet is going to drain the oil over night. Think about it.

The sight glass? Yep, it's to see if the goldfish are still alive. It's not the be all, end all of oil level gauges. It's just a hole in the engine with a little glass port there. Depending on the temp of the engine and how long you let it run, and set after you shut it down, it will be high, low or just right. If this was a wet sump engine, it would be more useful. IT'S NOT.
I concur. My buddy knocked my bike over accidentally and when I started it the light came on and stayed on for about a minute till I shut it off. I restarted it and all was good. Went on a 1400km ride after that with no problems.
 

greg the pole

There are no stupid questions, only stupid people
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Messages
3,343
Location
Calgary AB
Oil light

Here's the issue.

Start the bike in the morning, let it warm up (switch from LOW to actual temp reading) ride away.
Ride gingerly till temp comes up to 120 F or so.
Oil warning light goes on, continue riding, light goes off 2 minutes later. ???
Seems to happen in the morning only, and yes the oil level is fine.
Same issue happened to me and Camshaft on our ride last weekend, pretty much at the same time.
anyone have insight into this?
 

BadKarmaPa

New Member
2012 Site Supporter
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
100
Location
SW Pennsylvania, USA
Re: Oil light

Is the light full on bright? Generaly oil pressure switches are just on/off. If the the light is dime or flickering it could indicate a current leak caused by a shorting wire or water someplace it shouldn't be.
I had this issue on my Triumph Scrambler a couple times when water got into the rubber cap over the pressure switch wire connection when washing the bike.
 

coastie

Active Member
2012 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Messages
1,825
Location
St Petersburg Florida
Re: Oil light

Mine has done that one time. I think they are just a little cold blooded and get cranky when they are not fully warmed up. Now the first thing i do is start it up before I start putting on all my gear. I have not had a problem since.
 

snakebitten

Well-Known Member
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 6, 2011
Messages
5,681
Location
Coastal Texas
Oil light

Mine did it a few times EXACTLY as you describe.
My oil level seemed to be within spec via the view window.
Also, if I went 2 days or more between rides, my cam chain rattled for a second or 2 on startup.

But with the dry sump design of this bike, the view window isn't absolutely reliable.

I added just enough oil to go to max in the view window. (warming bike up and then waiting 10 minutes)

Both the oil light and the cam chain rattle went away.
I suspect there is more oil in the bike on this latest service too. Because neither symptom has returned.
 

greg the pole

There are no stupid questions, only stupid people
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Messages
3,343
Location
Calgary AB
Re: Oil light

BadKarmaPa said:
Is the light full on bright? Generaly oil pressure switches are just on/off. If the the light is dime or flickering it could indicate a current leak caused by a shorting wire or water someplace it shouldn't be.
I had this issue on my Triumph Scrambler a couple times when water got into the rubber cap over the pressure switch wire connection when washing the bike.
full on bright
 

greg the pole

There are no stupid questions, only stupid people
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Messages
3,343
Location
Calgary AB
Re: Oil light

thanks guys, i'll try that tomorrow morining.
My neibhours should love me even more at 530 am, with my two brothers exhaust installed ::015::
 

thfraser

New Member
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
Messages
563
Location
Northern VA
Re: Oil light

It happened very briefly for me one time. Hasn't happened since. And I changed the oil shortly thereafter, as I had recently acquired the bike and I wanted to ensure it had fresh oil. When I start out in the morning, I take it easy on the throttle until it warms up. YMMV
 
Top