***KNOCK ON THE DOOR*** Carbon tear down

[Fennellg]

You guys got me all pumped up. Put the bike on a trickle charger. And added this to the tank. Sta Bil always took the hesitation out of my boat after it had been sitting for a while.

Going to ride it today. Hard I think.

 

[thughes317]

I think the length of trips could also influence the carbon. I know it's apple & bananas, but I had an old Chevy truck with a 305ci and 4bbl carb. It would develop a hesitation when driven around town for a while. Until it was driven on the highway for extended periods. Hesitation disappeared and actually seemed to have more power. I wouldn't think that this would apply to Wheelin considering his 100mi per day trips though.

Italian tune up?

 

[Strummer]

Italian tune up?

I was wondering too...

 

[~TABASCO~]

This motor needs that more often than not. It has a rev limiter, no problem.

 

[Sierra1]

You guys got me all pumped up. Put the bike on a trickle charger. And added this to the tank. Sta Bil always took the hesitation out of my boat after it had been sitting for a while.

Going to ride it today. Hard I think.

View attachment 98305

You might be interested in STA-BIL 360. Does the same thing but specifically designed for metal tanks and ethanol.

I got to thinkin' . . . . if carrying a load, in addition to revin' the motor, helps keep it clean, mine should be spotless. My body weight is about equal to y'all loaded for a trip.

 

[WJBertrand]

Higher RON=higher ignition temps=less deposits?

or is it not that simple?

Actually it's the opposite of that. Higher octane fuel depresses combustion chamber temperatures and slow the burning rate. High compressions engines generate more heat just in the act of compressing the fuel air mixture even without a spark, so this mixture is already at a higher temperature than the same situation with a lower compression ratio and at risk of spontaneously igniting. If this higher temp mixture gets hot enough to self ignite causing preignition (very damaging) or if the mixture burns too quickly, partially exploding before the controlled burn can spread across the combustion chamber, spark knock or pinging can occur (also damaging).

Using high octane fuel in and engine that doesn't require it will lead to lower efficiency (reduced MPG) and the cooler combustion chamber temps could lead to less complete burning, resulting in left over unburnt or partially unburnt products. It's this unburnt stuff that can lead to excess carbon deposits. As pointed out above "babying" the engine, frequent short trips, etc. can also cause lower combustion chamber temps and contribute to carbon deposits.

 

[1911]

Before the last valve check on my FJR I dosed the tank with Yamaha Ring-Free, and then went for an enthusiastic little ride amongst the cow pastures and hay fields. The rear tire that I thought would last me another thousand miles barely lasted that tank of fuel but I sure had fun, and clean ports

 

[Sierra1]

. . . . Using high octane fuel in and engine that doesn't require it will lead to lower efficiency (reduced MPG) . . . .

Ok, brings up a question. During the summer, and my Jeep stays parked for weeks, I use premium for the higher initial octane. I know that over time, octane drops. I figure by the time I drive it again, the octane is close to being "regular". So, how wrong or right am I?

 

[Cycledude]

Chevron Techron is supposed to work great for removing carbon buildup , $5.99 for a bottle at NAPA

Techron® Complete Fuel System Cleaner

 

[WJBertrand]

Ok, brings up a question. During the summer, and my Jeep stays parked for weeks, I use premium for the higher initial octane. I know that over time, octane drops. I figure by the time I drive it again, the octane is close to being "regular". So, how wrong or right am I?

That makes sense. Lower octane fuels tend to be less stable. With a sealed fuel system and parking for only a few weeks, there may not be much degradation though.

 

[~TABASCO~]

Chevron Techron is supposed to work great for removing carbon buildup , $5.99 for a bottle at NAPA

Techron® Complete Fuel System Cleaner

Yep, any of those type of products help this motor keep the carbon down to a minimum. One of the 'main' things is to keep the use consistent. "thumbs up" !

 

[sheikyerbooty]

Cheers Jeff. That's way above my carpenter's pay grade, but interesting AF. 91, 95 and 98 available down here. I put 98 in if I can, 95 mostly, 91 if I have to. I do rag it on the highway, but prob. 30% putting round on manky gravel roads.

So Tabasco...a dose of Seafoam or equivalent thru the gas tank every oil change?

I'm not overthinking this at all!

 

[Sierra1]

. . . . So Tabasco...a dose of Seafoam or equivalent thru the gas tank every oil change? . . . .

Car or bike, I've always put the cleaner in a 2 tanks before the oil change. That way anything cleaned off/out gets taken out with the old oil. I was told, or read somewhere, that all the gunk in a motor goes into the oil.

 

[Eville Rich]

[

Cheers Jeff. That's way above my carpenter's pay grade, but interesting AF. 91, 95 and 98 available down here. I put 98 in if I can, 95 mostly, 91 if I have to. I do rag it on the highway, but prob. 30% putting round on manky gravel roads.

So Tabasco...a dose of Seafoam or equivalent thru the gas tank every oil change?

I'm not overthinking this at all!

Hey Sheik (any chance that's a Zappa reference?)

I think that for regular maintenance, using the amounts prescribed on the bottles for tank fills, you want to do that more frequently. If you do a shock treatment with a much larger dose, I'd do it one tank or so before an oil change. By shock treatment, I'm talking like volumes well in excess of the maintenance level. In that case, crud could affect the oil. But in the small doses used to prevent carbon I think you can just do it whenever.

Thats been my general practice for many years, though I don't tend to do the maintenance level service (that's going to change). And my S10 has carbon build up, so use my advice sparingly.

Eville Rich
2016 S10

 

[sheikyerbooty]

Cheers fellas. My '21 is only just run in at 20000ks but she's a keeper so I'll get a can of foaming goo (yes, another Zappa reference)

 

[Eville Rich]

Cheers fellas. My '21 is only just run in at 20000ks but she's a keeper so I'll get a can of foaming goo (yes, another Zappa reference)

Need all the additives to avoid that Cosmik Debris.

Apologies to those who have no idea what we're talking about.

 

[Wheelin]

I guess for me I would just like to understand what I’ve done that might be causing these problems. The bike has 78,000 miles. I go freeway speeds up to 90 mph, 100 miles, Monday through Friday. I follow the periodic maintenance guide, including valve adjustments. I use full synthetic Motul 10w-40. The motor doesn’t run at extremely high compression, so though I’m not a mechanic, I’m thinking that this motor is designed to easily go 100,000 miles without any major problems.

So, based upon what I’ve stated, how many issues could be causing these problems? What are the likely culprits? What could I have done differently? Are there other people in the forum with this sort of mileage who have had these issues?

Having not seen the bike personally (and admitting as much), Tabasco has stated his beliefs regarding carbon deposits. I know he has a good reputation in this forum, and perhaps that’s the only issue and he’s absolutely correct about the problem. That stated, other mechanics have stated “rarely is carbon deposit the sole reason for compression or no-start issues”. One mechanic stated that compression should be at 160 psi, and I politely thanked him for his time and don’t intend to ever return to that individual, because the manual clearly states that the compression is much lower than that, around 96.7 psi at 250 r/min. (He found compression on my bike to be at 65 and 45 psi.)


So I guess I’m just scratching my head,trying to figure out what past behaviors I’ve performed that would cause these issues on a 2016 that’s ridden highway speeds with annual mileage at roughly 16,000. I’ve rarely been off-road, keep the bike garaged when I’m not riding it. Really confused as to why this happened and what the possible culprits might be.

 

[Fennellg]

Every once in a while the motorcycle gods demand a sacrifice. (A Joke)

Every bike is unique just like it’s rider. We don’t always get to know why. But at the end of day will gladly settle for never again. I am sure you will do everything you can to prevent this from happening again.

If it were me. I would change to T6 and change the interval to 3000 miles. (popular on the forum no issues reported also recommended by Sonata forum to prevent this. ) I would also vary your gas stations as much as possible. Obviously an additive from time time. The cars that have this problem put catch can in. I did and it really helps

 

[hulkss]

The best gasoline additives for removing carbon contain polyetheramine, commonly called PEA. The ones I know of with the most PEA are Chevron Techron, Yamaha Ring Free, and Amsoil PI.
Amsoil data bulletin attached.

 

[Jlq1969]

Complete combustion would generate toxic (+/-) gases (CO, CO2, NOX, and others)...but incomplete combustion would generate less of these gases...preventing the fuel from burning completely, you would contaminate less...although carbon deposits are generated . One way to achieve this reduction in combustion would be to modify the degree of delay or advance of the spark….
I understand the carbon cleaner additives, I just don't like the expression:
“powerful detergent” + “Use it regularly”…..