Is there something wrong with my clutch? I'm going to go crazy.

[snakebitten]

This forum is made up of a bunch of guys that have ridden YOUR bike for many hundreds of thousands of miles.
And for a collective many many years.

Nobody you can call on the phone will likely have ever ridden one. Certainly not spent years of focus on exactly YOUR bike.

Admittedly we haven't all agreed 100% on what the potential issue is. Not one single pinpointed solution. But you gotta admit, this thread is far from just throwing darts.

 

[RicoChet]

Sounds to me like absolute worst case scenario is I will have to buy the Yamaha clutch kit and install it. Either way I am positive this issue can be resolved so I'm feeling optimistic. However it is pretty frustrating.

 

[True Grip]

My clutch was sticky once and I took the lever off and greased the pivot pin. Problem solved. Haven't read this whole thread so not sure if that's been mentioned. Shifter also needs grease occasionally. Stopped washing my bike with simple green too.

 

[limey]

I suspect that bike just needs some barn love. But it doesn't sound like it's gonna get any.

Dealerships can be such a crap-shoot.

Ride to Romney. There's 30 guys who can fix it in the parking lot. And if that is an exaggeration, there's a mechanics bay as backup.

We could switch bikes for the weekend and I promise I'll clean it before I drop it off.

 

[RonH]

No help here unfortunately except to say I've ridden down to 10 below zero F to work on various motorcycles over the years. The weight of the oil or whether synthetic or not is not your problem. Once the engine starts, they all work the same to the clutch behavior in my opinion. My suspicion is when they fooled with your brakes, they probably blead the brake fluid, and probably blead the clutch as well and goofed it up by ??. Let air in by some mistake, like letting the fluid drop below the small volume in the master cylinder. I know you don't claim to be a mechanic. Of course some are and some aren't, but I've found letting dealers work for you, you never know what they did or didn't do. They may very well know what they did to cause this problem, maybe not, but man this stuff is aggravating, and sorry you have to experience it.

 

[RicoChet]

Hey Guys,

Just a quick update... I called that dealership's manager and told I would never return there for service ever again. He was not even trying to apologize or anything, told me he was doing me a favour by even taking me in at all "Because we have a 6 week wait for service" AND.... "We only service bikes that we sell." Whatever, douchebag!

Anyway.. I've been doing some diagnosing and it appears that they probably did do a clutch bleed, but the moron who did the bleed let in so much air into my lines that you can practically use my master cylinder as a Scuba Diving tank. After not riding for a day, I went and gently pulled in the clutch lever and it was soft, I could pull the lever in almost all the way to the handlebar with out any resistance... but pumping it made the lever hard again or "Normal" feeling.

So I think the whole bullshit with my clutch being fried was another way of trying to get me in to buy more parts. I will be doing a proper bleed on my clutch line and I am almost 100% positive that it will resolve the whole issue.

This is only my second bike that I've owned that has had a hydro clutch so there was a little learning curve for me to learn how this work. Previously I would just adjust the clutch cable to my liking within specifications and be good to go. It's hard to believe how such a tiny amount of air in the line can cause such a drastic change in clutch feel. But there it is.

I'm trying to source or find a copy of the service manual so I can see how the clutch has to be bled... The story continues!

 

[snakebitten]

Eric's excellent post for addressing exactly what you now suspect, is what I'd do first. Don't even need the manual.

 

[RicoChet]

Eric's excellent post for addressing exactly what you now suspect, is what I'd do first. Don't even need the manual.

lol I wish I had that kind of experience but I have never bled a brake or clutch, I need something to at least read on how its done. I definitely have the small tools necessary to do the job I am sure but I will do a search on the site if there are any pictures/video on how the process is done. Looking to do this this weekend hopefully!

 

[holligl]

lol I wish I had that kind of experience but I have never bled a brake or clutch, I need something to at least read on how its done. I definitely have the small tools necessary to do the job I am sure but I will do a search on the site if there are any pictures/video on how the process is done. Looking to do this this weekend hopefully!

Start with a new (unbroken seal) container of DOT 4 brake fluid.
Bike on center stand.
Cover painted surfaces with towels or rags. (Brake fluid will ruin paint if you splash any. Handle with care!)
Remove Master Cylinder reservoir cap and diaphragm.
Check level and quality. (Upper and lower range marks) Remove old fluid with a syringe if any discoloration.
Put bleeder tube on the bleed valve and route to catch container.
Ensure reservoir is to the full mark with new fluid.
Gently squeeze clutch several times and hold.
Open the bleed valve with a wrench. Clutch pressure will go away, but hold the handle in until the bleed valve is closed.
Once closed, carefully slowly release the clutch lever, as it can splash out of the reservoir. (I think I set the Diaphagm in place, so it didn't slash out.
Check level, refill and repeat, until the fluid runs clear. The reservoir is pretty small. Don't let it run dry as you bleed.
When done, ensure the bleed valve is tight, final check and fill of the level, and replace the diaphragm and cover.

It is easier with two people unless you have a vacuum bleeder.
Manual also states to use the same fluid as was in the bike (don't mix brands), so I used Yamalube.

 

[RicoChet]

Start with a new (unbroken seal) container of DOT 4 brake fluid.
Bike on center stand.
Cover painted surfaces with towels or rags. (Brake fluid will ruin paint if you splash any. Handle with care!)
Remove Master Cylinder reservoir cap and diaphragm.
Check level and quality. (Upper and lower range marks) Remove old fluid with a syringe if any discoloration.
Put bleeder tube on the bleed valve and route to catch container.
Ensure reservoir is to the full mark with new fluid.
Gently squeeze clutch several times and hold.
Open the bleed valve with a wrench. Clutch pressure will go away, but hold the handle in until the bleed valve is closed.
Once closed, carefully slowly release the clutch lever, as it can splash out of the reservoir. (I think I set the Diaphagm in place, so it didn't slash out.
Check level, refill and repeat, until the fluid runs clear. The reservoir is pretty small. Don't let it run dry as you bleed.
When done, ensure the bleed valve is tight, final check and fill of the level, and replace the diaphragm and cover.

It is easier with two people unless you have a vacuum bleeder.
Manual also states to use the same fluid as was in the bike (don't mix brands), so I used Yamalube.

Excellent explanation, thank you. What do you do if you do not know what the type of fluid was used previously? I know it says DOT4 but I dont know what the brand was.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Nice explanations above.
Here's a nicely done video is below. The only difference is that you won't need to remove a chrome cover to see the slave (bottom) cylinder. You'll need an 8mm wrench.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn4LPoYNYUQ

 

[holligl]

Excellent explanation, thank you. What do you do if you do not know what the type of fluid was used previously? I know it says DOT4 but I dont know what the brand was.

No way to know for sure. If it was original or done previously by a Yamaha dealer, chances are pretty good it was Yamalube. That's the route I would (did) go. The prior owner of my bike kept immaculate records which is really nice to know what all was done. Good Luck! Take your time and avoid spills. I had my son-in-law assist when I did mine.

 

[WJBertrand]

Excellent explanation, thank you. What do you do if you do not know what the type of fluid was used previously? I know it says DOT4 but I dont know what the brand was.

All DOT 4 (and DOT 3 for that matter) fluids will be compatible with one another but if you put 3 to 4 ounces or more of new fluid through the system, there won't be a significant amount of the old stuff left anyway. I use the Lucas Synthetic DOT 4 fluid. Before that I used Valvoline Synpower DOT 4, but it seems that Valvoline has discontinued that and replaced it with a DOT 3&4 combination product. Since Yamaha calls for DOT 4 and doesn't mention DOT 3, I've switched to the Lucas product.

http://www.autozone.com/brake-and-power-steering-fluid-additives/brake-fluid/lucas-oil-synthetic-dot-4-brake-fluid/458094_0_0

 

[hobdayd]

Just remember to fully lock off the clutch slave cylinder bleed screw before you release the bar lever each and every time you pump and also make sure you fully release the bar lever each time also (hands off) so that the Master Cylinder reservoir feed hole is uncovered allowing additional fresh fluid to enter the Master Cylinder for each pump. Any DOT 4 will do.

 

[EricV]

You can just buy a turkey baster from the dollar store if you don't have a large syringe to suck out the old fluid. I like to use some q-tips to clean any crud out of the reservoir before I add fresh fluid. Odds are yours is pretty clean and won't even require that though.

The "bleeder tube" is just some tubing. Buy a couple of feet from an auto parts store that sells it by the foot. Any tubing will work that fits nicely on the bleed nipple. Some prefer clear so they can see what's happening as fluid moves. Be aware that just because you see bubbles in the fluid, it doesn't mean air is coming out of the system. Air gets pulled in around the threads of the nipple if you are using a vacuum bleeder, and can also show up even when using the clutch lever to move fluid. "gently squeeze the lever" is sound advice! It's not uncommon for a nice squirt of fluid to come out of the reservoirs when squeezing the lever, especially on the brake side. Another reason to cover up the paint work with an old towel, etc.

There are nifty kits for bleeding that make it a little easier. And all kinds of more expensive tools for people that do it more often, but you don't need to spend a lot to do this task. The basics work just fine. Here are links to a couple of simple, inexpensive kits with one way valves that will make it easier to avoid sucking air back into the system if you let the lever out before closing the bleed valve. The kits with the one way valve allow you to squeeze and release the lever w/o closing the bleed valve, which speeds up the process. You still have to use care to avoid running the fluid in the reservoir down too low and sucking air in the top, which is likely the root cause of your issue, since the reservoir is tiny on our Super Tenere, compared to most bikes.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brake-Clutch-Bleeder-Hose-Kit-One-Way-Valve-Tube-Bleeding-Tool-Car-ATV-UTV-/291889249404?hash=item43f5f47c7c:g:wtgAAOSwYIxX2bRw

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorcycle-Car-Clutch-Brake-Bleeder-Hose-One-Way-Valve-Tube-Bleeding-Tool-Kit-/311651586888?hash=item488fe1d348:g:uPcAAOSwhOVXfgAC


On the Lisle kit below, you add some fresh fluid to the catch bottle so the hose there is in fluid when you start. This means if you don't close the bleed valve, it sucks up fluid instead of air. You still need to close the bleed valve before releasing the lever, ideally, but this saves you if you miss your timing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lisle-Tools-19200-One-Man-Brake-Bleeding-Kit-/282071129733?hash=item41acbfde85:gZ4AAMXQCgpRxL7n

Most, if not all, auto parts stores will sell simple and expensive kits for brake/clutch bleeding. Check out what's available when you buy the Dot 4 brake fluid.

 

[scott123007]

You might have a bad master cylinder. I know it may be a coincidence that it started showing up right after an oil change, but the clutch itself is definitely not the problem.
About a week ago when you started your initial thread about this, I told you to pump your clutch a few times before you put in gear to see if that would help. You claimed it didn't, but now you are stating that the lever feels soft initially, when it has been sitting a while. That is a classic case of one of two things. One, is that there is air in the system, and the other is that the master cylinder is going bad. Either situation, after a few pumps, generally makes the lever feel normal again and that is why the bike operates normally after a few minutes.
Since you are mechanically challenged, do yourself a favor and take the offer of one of those two fine gentlemen who offered to help you. Have them help/show you how to bleed your clutch before you try to do it yourself and end up with a real snafu on your hands. If you screw it up by yourself at the house, it will take a truck or trailer to get you somewhere it can be fixed and since your dealers leave a lot to be desired, then what?

Just for reference, my master cylinder took a shit on my '14. All the bleeding in the world did nothing. It would feel as normal as could be until it sat over night, then sure as the sun rises, when I would pull the lever in for the first or second time the next day, it would feel soft until I pumped it a few times. Unfortunately, it took a new master cylinder to fix it.

 

[2daMax]

Hey some videos on the One-man brake bleeding method. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4UQpxzQKMU

I saw this and made my own bottle and tube apparatus, added a zip tie on the zerk fitting for safe measure against air leaking in.

Procedures as spelt out earlier so not going to repeat it. Just to note the importance that the end of the hose inside the bottle has to be covered with brake fluid, as this will trap the air inside the hose and keeps the pressure constant. An open hose end will cause the air to suck into the zerk fitting when it is loosened and no pressure applied, or when the lever retracts. So this the only important point to follow.

I first did the Clutch first since the master cylinder is direct to the slave, unlike the brakes which has the ABS pump. I screwed up a couple of times letting in air because I wasn't attentive enough to fill the Master and not let it go empty. Noob mistake. But the air was removed rather quickly. Easiest procedure to do and am so glad I didn't send to the shop to have it done, because, it is unlikely they will wipe the spill off immediately off the painted surfaces (front cowlings, fenders, brake housings and even the rims).

After gaining confidence on the clutch, I did the brakes also. Just 1 important step for ABS brakes is that the ABS pump needs to be actuated (cycled) using a procedure outlined in the Service Manual, to purge stuck fluids in the valves, and sometimes air. Re-bleed 1 more time and you are at 100% clean and new brake fluid.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Before somebody asks about how to cycle the ABS pump, here it is:

Read this after pulling the two round plugs and using the paper clip approach. Confirmed this approach works by running the test. Very quick and easy. (Easier than pushing the bike down the driveway!!) It runs the pulsations 2-3 seconds Front, then rear, then front again, so a good 6 seconds or so.Summarized:Up on Center stand.Make sure the sidestand kill switch works.Leave it in gear.Make sure your battery is well charged.Install the test adapter (Jump top two wires, Light Blue and Black) on the ABS test plug under the seat.Confirm the side stand is down.Ignition key ON (I waited for fuel pump to stop)Press and hold the Starter Button for at least 4 seconds (doesn't start since it is in gear and sidestand is down)Release the starter button.After releasing the starter button, pull the front brake lever and press the rear brake pedal simultaneously and continue to hold both.The front lever should pulsate for a few seconds, then the rear pedal will pulsate a few seconds, and then the front will pulsate again.Release the brakes, ignition off, put it in neutral, remove the test adapter, etc....