Is the GS1250 the reason?

Purificator81

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Just an update after I drove a friend's GSA1200 2018 model. Here is my objective feedback:
PROS:
1- weight: it definitely FEELS lighter when moving it around compared to the S10
2- Power: the engine is punchier and Revs pretty well we great acceleration sensations and less vibration compared to the S10.
3- Agility: it felts more agile

CONS:

1- feels: S10 feels solid when riding it. My friend told me that it is probably due to the chassis of the S10 and may be its extra weight...but for me I felt like there is more concentration of metal while the gs has may be more fairings and spaces in between.

2- cornering: there is no resistance from the GS when cornering compared to the S10. May be it is a matter of being used to the S10 but I kind of like more the way the S10 corners slowly but steadily..

3- riding position: the main difference in the riding position is the cylinder heads in the GS which do restrict my legs movement...
4- screen and info: yes the GS has much more info in the display but I felt I could still be fine with the basic info and not having to go through so many screens and buttons to adjust things. Also, I tried road and dynamic pro modes and while there is a difference in the seat height I felt the other differences were not noticeable so it kind of hype for me.
5- telelever: I took the GS to a light offroad and felt that the front wheel does not give me the feedback I needed...traditional fork is better for me at least

Good experience but I am not sure I would go for it while having my S10. If I have to go for another bike I would rather add a dirt bike that would give me a totally different ride experience and probably will be an addition to the S10.
 

Streethawk

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Just an update after I drove a friend's GSA1200 2018 model. Here is my objective feedback:
PROS:
1- weight: it definitely FEELS lighter when moving it around compared to the S10
2- Power: the engine is punchier and Revs pretty well we great acceleration sensations and less vibration compared to the S10.
3- Agility: it felts more agile

CONS:

1- feels: S10 feels solid when riding it. My friend told me that it is probably due to the chassis of the S10 and may be its extra weight...but for me I felt like there is more concentration of metal while the gs has may be more fairings and spaces in between.

2- cornering: there is no resistance from the GS when cornering compared to the S10. May be it is a matter of being used to the S10 but I kind of like more the way the S10 corners slowly but steadily..

3- riding position: the main difference in the riding position is the cylinder heads in the GS which do restrict my legs movement...
4- screen and info: yes the GS has much more info in the display but I felt I could still be fine with the basic info and not having to go through so many screens and buttons to adjust things. Also, I tried road and dynamic pro modes and while there is a difference in the seat height I felt the other differences were not noticeable so it kind of hype for me.
5- telelever: I took the GS to a light offroad and felt that the front wheel does not give me the feedback I needed...traditional fork is better for me at least

Good experience but I am not sure I would go for it while having my S10. If I have to go for another bike I would rather add a dirt bike that would give me a totally different ride experience and probably will be an addition to the S10.
Coincidentally, I had a lengthy ride on a 2019 GS a week ago. I've ridden one before and also the 1250 but my buddy is interested in the Super Tenere so we did a bike swap. The run was in the Texas Hill Country and we were on more technical and bumpy backroads. This was probably the hardest I've ever cornered on the GS. We rode on pavement only and the pace was super spirited ;-) Coming off the GS, I felt I was in a great position to update my mental notes (especially hopping right back on my S10). For what it's worth, they follow:

2019 R1200 GS (my buddy's in "Road" mode)
* Imo, it's still the all-rounder "king"; entire package comes together almost TOO perfectly. Lol!
* Fueling is supreme; throttle roll on/off is oh so smooth!!
* Cockpit is ultra luxury and ultra comfortable.
* Standing riding position is superb! Excellent foot accommodation while standing
* Cylinder heads are vaguely "in the way" of certain forward foot and lower leg movements and man, they are HOT!
* Tips in very well but, the front end response is sort of vague; not appreciated for my riding style.
* Overall, everything is so refined that to me, lots of inputs almost feel like they're on a 50 millisecond delay (lol) A sort of overall input latency (?!)

2016 XT1200Z Super Tenere ES (mine)
* Less refined but absolutely more sporty (all things considered); imo, post ECU flash, it's more akin to a KTM (if the Austrian marque were to make a shafty).
* Post ECU flash with its improved fueling/smoothness, it's STILL an anchor overboard compared to the GS! Lol! Still MUCH more manageable post flash though.
* More tactile/utilitarian yet comfortable cockpit; more dirtbike/dual sport-ish compared to the GS; not as lush as the GS but things feel more immediately within reach.
* Standing riding position is less neutral than the GS but not at the expense of quicker transitions and having everything be seemingly quicker to get to.
* Better airflow around entire body
* Traditional USD fork arrangement and overall chassis performance makes it better in the corners for sure! Feels like you're on a quick but heavy dirtbike or dual sport, compared to the GS.
* Overall, more "urgent" and more sport tour-ish in feel by comparison; my hard/spirited riding style is better accommodated by the S10; 2nd pick for a big bore shafty for my riding style, would be the Triumph Tiger 1200 (which I've also ridden).
* Purely subjective but I prefer the rugged military vehicle-like looks of the S10.

Rider info (me): Male, 5'11", 200 lbs, 32" inseam, somewhat athletic build (lol). Disciplines: Road, track and trail.

Lastly, my buddy's feedback was overall positive. He said it was totally not what he was expecting but that it was a great bike! He felt it was more aggressive, had more vibration, more character. He tried both riding modes also. I let him the (purported) 20+ extra hp via the ECU plays a part. He loves his GS but he's still interested in the S10. I asked why and he said it was because of the reliability. He wants to go far and occasionally into the wild, with a lot less tech and more reliability (access to parts if need be).
 

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Checkswrecks

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What I find interesting is how people do not say the Tenere is an absolute KLR-like dinosaur compared to the newest latest greatest of the BMWs. I REALLY liked the times I go tot ride Dirt Dad's KTM 1290 and if it had a shaft there would be one in my garage today. But when I got back on my my old 2014 Tenere I was OK with it, even though the bike is basically the same as when the model was first released 12 years ago in 2010.
 

Sierra1

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. . . . But when I got back on my my old 2014 Tenere I was OK with it, even though the bike is basically the same as when the model was first released 12 years ago in 2010.
It was the same thing with my '86 FJ. Every time I rode a different bike, and then got back on the FJ . . . . I preferred the FJ. Even when the RT 1150 was new, and it was great, I still didn't like it as well. The ST 1300 is a good bike, but no FJ. The Tenere is the only bike that when I rode it . . . . I knew I had found my new favorite.
 

Purificator81

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Interesting feedback and interesting also the fact that we had some common impressions about the comparison.

I guess I forgot to mention also how hot the cylinder heads feel. That is a very valid point. And while I do rarely have to thrown my leg forward, I thought between the panniers behind and the cylinder ahead, my leg is already in a prison...
The highlight of what I rememberd was still that feeling of the GS being empty...and it has to do with that fact that it does not have the traditional chassis...

I will probably go with an ECU reflash but will do it only for the Sport mode (not sure if that is possible) because the touring mode has that grunt that I like most for technical offroad ...will have to think about it

By the way I am 6'2", 100kg...33 inseam and I did not feel an improvement in the riding position of the GS...not that it is bad but almost the same as my S10 especially when I stand up.

Coincidentally, I had a lengthy ride on a 2019 GS a week ago. I've ridden one before and also the 1250 but my buddy is interested in the Super Tenere so we did a bike swap. The run was in the Texas Hill Country and we were on more technical and bumpy backroads. This was probably the hardest I've ever cornered on the GS. We rode on pavement only and the pace was super spirited ;-) Coming off the GS, I felt I was in a great position to update my mental notes (especially hopping right back on my S10). For what it's worth, they follow:

2019 R1200 GS (my buddy's in "Road" mode)
* Imo, it's still the all-rounder "king"; entire package comes together almost TOO perfectly. Lol!
* Fueling is supreme; throttle roll on/off is oh so smooth!!
* Cockpit is ultra luxury and ultra comfortable.
* Standing riding position is superb! Excellent foot accommodation while standing
* Cylinder heads are vaguely "in the way" of certain forward foot and lower leg movements and man, they are HOT!
* Tips in very well but, the front end response is sort of vague; not appreciated for my riding style.
* Overall, everything is so refined that to me, lots of inputs almost feel like they're on a 50 millisecond delay (lol) A sort of overall input latency (?!)

2016 XT1200Z Super Tenere ES (mine)
* Less refined but absolutely more sporty (all things considered); imo, post ECU flash, it's more akin to a KTM (if the Austrian marque were to make a shafty).
* Post ECU flash with its improved fueling/smoothness, it's STILL an anchor overboard compared to the GS! Lol! Still MUCH more manageable post flash though.
* More tactile/utilitarian yet comfortable cockpit; more dirtbike/dual sport-ish compared to the GS; not as lush as the GS but things feel more immediately within reach.
* Standing riding position is less neutral than the GS but not at the expense of quicker transitions and having everything be seemingly quicker to get to.
* Better airflow around entire body
* Traditional USD fork arrangement and overall chassis performance makes it better in the corners for sure! Feels like you're on a quick but heavy dirtbike or dual sport, compared to the GS.
* Overall, more "urgent" and more sport tour-ish in feel by comparison; my hard/spirited riding style is better accommodated by the S10; 2nd pick for a big bore shafty for my riding style, would be the Triumph Tiger 1200 (which I've also ridden).
* Purely subjective but I prefer the rugged military vehicle-like looks of the S10.

Rider info (me): Male, 5'11", 200 lbs, 32" inseam, somewhat athletic build (lol). Disciplines: Road, track and trail.

Lastly, my buddy's feedback was overall positive. He said it was totally not what he was expecting but that it was a great bike! He felt it was more aggressive, had more vibration, more character. He tried both riding modes also. I let him the (purported) 20+ extra hp via the ECU plays a part. He loves his GS but he's still interested in the S10. I asked why and he said it was because of the reliability. He wants to go far and occasionally into the wild, with a lot less tech and more reliability (access to parts if need be).
 
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Purificator81

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Have you reflashed the ECU?

What I find interesting is how people do not say the Tenere is an absolute KLR-like dinosaur compared to the newest latest greatest of the BMWs. I REALLY liked the times I go tot ride Dirt Dad's KTM 1290 and if it had a shaft there would be one in my garage today. But when I got back on my my old 2014 Tenere I was OK with it, even though the bike is basically the same as when the model was first released 12 years ago in 2010.
 

Dirt_Dad

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What I find interesting is how people do not say the Tenere is an absolute KLR-like dinosaur compared to the newest latest greatest of the BMWs. I REALLY liked the times I go tot ride Dirt Dad's KTM 1290 and if it had a shaft there would be one in my garage today. But when I got back on my my old 2014 Tenere I was OK with it, even though the bike is basically the same as when the model was first released 12 years ago in 2010.
I was as pro-shaft as anyone out there. With the auto-oiler installed I just don't give the chain any thought at all. Hell, with the wife's BMW and basically a non-functioning oiler, I can't say I give it much thought either.

Modern bikes are too much fun to avoid them due to lack of shaft. I still strongly prefer a shaft, just not strongly enough to be forced to keep the front wheel grounded in 4th gear. :eek:
 

Checkswrecks

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Have you reflashed the ECU?
No but have ridden a number of Gen2 bikes which have been and there is definitely a difference. But then I was referring to whether the overall bike was SO much better that I would have cringed in getting back on mine. That didn't happen.

I could see me on a 1290 but just have no reason to switch for now other than occasional "New Bike Syndrome."
 

Dirt_Dad

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No but have ridden a number of Gen2 bikes which have been and there is definitely a difference. But then I was referring to whether the overall bike was SO much better that I would have cringed in getting back on mine. That didn't happen.

I could see me on a 1290 but just have no reason to switch for now other than occasional "New Bike Syndrome."
And to be honest, when pushed, i never lost the Teneres on that group ride last year in SD. I did hear them over the Bluetooth hitting some pretty good revs, but we stayed together as a group just fine.
 

Streethawk

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I will probably go with an ECU reflash but will do it only for the Sport mode (not sure if that is possible) because the touring mode has that grunt that I like most for technical offroad ...will have to think about it
I don't see how that would be possible but what I can tell you is that post ECU flash, Touring mode is a much smoother, quicker and safer all purpose mode. It's where I keep it most of the time. Sport mode post ECU flash is great for having fun on more wide open/sweeping fast roads with good visual lead time; or at the track. Prior to the flash I definitely found myself switching between both modes more often.
 

Streethawk

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Modern bikes are too much fun to avoid them due to lack of shaft.
Absolutely agree sir. For me however and unfortunately, untimely joint pain has dashed my big bore chain driven ADV bike dreams (!) Chain cleaning, slack adjustment and alignment while travelling takes too heavy a physical toll :-( Otherwise, I do believe I'd have me an Africa Twin or V-Strom 1050 (love that big supertwin power of the Suzuki!). I narrowed my choices down to the VFR 1200X and the Super Tenere. Demoed the VFR and LOVED it but due the tight cockpit (legroom), it was a no go. Got to test out a buddy's gen 2 S10 and the rest is history ;-)
 

Dirt_Dad

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Absolutely agree sir. For me however and unfortunately, untimely joint pain has dashed my big bore chain driven ADV bike dreams (!)
I understand the reality of physical challenges, but...

Chain cleaning
I've done it on very rare occasions.

slack adjustment
Once in 2 chain sets and more than 20K miles.

and alignment while travelling
Literally never done that.
 

Streethawk

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I understand the reality of physical challenges, but...


I've done it on very rare occasions.



Once in 2 chain sets and more than 20K miles.



Literally never done that.
Running chain maintenance during my most recent BDR trips unfortunately signaled the end of the long-distance chain driven bike option for me (physically). Definitely not fun for me on the road. I had an awesome wingman though who helped big time! A BMW guy at that! Lol! Sort of looking forward to surgery down the road but man, the things we take for granted sometimes. The Super Tenere has been a real gift for me in this particular area though. Whether I'm on the range coaching on it, ripping it on backroads on the weekends or going to get groceries with it, physically, it's a real relief to pull into the garage and know the transmission is already set to go for the next ride ;-) Fortunately, back home I can do chain maintenance on a lift (which helps me to keep doing track days!).

As for chain slack and alignment adjustments, ymmv but for me, it has worked out great for longevity and overall chain health (using D.I.D chains that is - no experience with EK or RK - only have installed them on others' bikes).
 

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Streethawk

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Bringing it back to the 1250 GS (lol), in a week or so, I'll be revisiting it. My last ride on a 1250 was over a year ago, so to refresh, I'm taking another buddy's 2023 beast of a beauty on the same (paved) route; that I did on the 1200 GS. We'll see what the XT1200Z and R 1250 GS age gap reveals to me ;-) Take care everyone :)
 

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Purificator81

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I don't see how that would be possible but what I can tell you is that post ECU flash, Touring mode is a much smoother, quicker and safer all purpose mode. It's where I keep it most of the time. Sport mode post ECU flash is great for having fun on more wide open/sweeping fast roads with good visual lead time; or at the track. Prior to the flash I definitely found myself switching between both modes more often.
Thanks. I red in other parts of the forum that the touring mode looses a bit of torque in 1st and 2nd gear after the flash...not sure how that is accurate but on offroad the touring mode has been so great for me that I am afraid to touch it
 

WJBertrand

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Thanks. I red in other parts of the forum that the touring mode looses a bit of torque in 1st and 2nd gear after the flash...not sure how that is accurate but on offroad the touring mode has been so great for me that I am afraid to touch it
That describes the OEM limitations, particularly for gen1, more than a reflash which removes all those limitations. My own personal experience is that Touring mode is a less sluggish and more powerful feeling than before the flash. It has a more conservative ramp up than sport is all. Hard to imagine any loss of torque.


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HeliMark

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When I went to my Tiger, I was a little concerned on the additional maintenance with the chain, as the last number of bikes I have owned were shafts. With the current modern chains, like what @Dirt_Dad has said, it really isn't much of a concern. I currently have 33K miles on my Tiger with the original chain. Everything is within spec, although with needing new tires and a valve check coming up, I will be putting on a new chain (and sprockets) because of the mileage on it.

The only additional maintenance I do, is about every 1,000 - 1,500 miles I clean the chain, and after every ride I put the bike on the center stand and spray the chain with some lube. Chain has only needed to be adjusted three times.
 
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